Cost of reloading .45acp?

[WrongHanded]

While 4.9 isn't what I would consider a starting charge for coated which behave closer to lead than jacketed, 4.9 will be just fine at that OAL. In fact, I would shorten it up a hair to 1.260 to 1.265 OAL. 1.269 +/- might be problematic in some mags.

Loaded round looks real good.

Thank you Walkalong.

As it's only one round, I'll pull the bullet, reflair the case, reduce the charge (I'm thinking 4.5gr, but maybe lower?) and reseat the bullet for a shorter OAL. Seems like the Sellier & Bellot I've been shooting (which is the brass I'm reloading) is somewhere around 1.263". So I may just check a few more of those, and then seat to match.

Just FYI, crimp in an autoloading round can be critical as well... primarily because the round headspaces on the case mouth. Case length can factor in here, too, but I've never had a problem with case length in the .45ACP... and in fact have never trimmed a .45 case in my life. Having said that, and reading that you are coming off revolver cartridges, I would investigate a taper crimp die for your .45ACP. A roll crimp, most likely built into your seat die, will work, certainly, but too much roll crimp could possibly give you ignition problems, among other things.

Looking at your second photo, of your loaded round, it almost looks like the case mouth is still flared out (it may be the lighting or something else.)

I have a Lee factory crimp die. But wasn't sure how much was too much. And as I did recalled that the cartridge seats on the case mouth, I didn't want to crimp it so tightly it squashed into the bullet, and then wouldn't seat correctly.

Anymore info on correctly crimping with this die would be a great help.

 

[Walkalong]

(I'm thinking 4.5gr, but maybe lower?)

Depends on the power level you want, 4.5 is going to be slow.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/low-charge-weight-velocity-cycling-test.523172/


For auto calibers like .45 ACP adjust the taper "crimp" die so it completely removes the bell on the shortest cases, which means the longest ones will get a hair (Maybe .001) of inward movement of the case mouth. No more.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I would shorten it up a hair to 1.260 to 1.265 OAL. 1.269 +/- might be problematic in some mags.

That's what I found when I first started loading 45 acp. One source listed 1.270 max OAL, and another listed COAL with the same bullet type and powder as 1.210". All of my 1.270" rounds fed, fired, and extracted fine. However when loading a magazine, I noticed the noses would come in contact with the magazine lip. So since different source data indicated very different lengths with the same bullet type and powder charge, I realized, and read on THR, that shortening them to 1.260" COAL would be fine. I wasn't loading near max, just target/plinking ammo. Heading off the problem before I had feed issues.

I only tried the longer cartridges in my HK45 and XDs. I wonder how they would have fed in my 1911.

 

[WrongHanded]

Depends on the power level you want, 4.5 is going to be slow.

I don't want slow at all. Really, I'd like to mimmick factory target ammo. But I'm trying to do that sensible thing where I start low and work up. That's partly because it's considered good practice (I'm trying to be good), and partly because this is my first attempt with an auto cartridge. And with the discrepancies in available load data, I had some concerns about under-charging, but the thread you linked to convinced me that won't be any issue at all. Thanks for that!

 

[Walkalong]

That's partly because it's considered good practice (I'm trying to be good)

I understand, but a metric boatload of jacketed, plated, lead, and now coated have been shot with about 5.0 Grs of W-231. My only caveat would be not too short, thus my 1.260 to 1.265 OAL recommendation. (A .005 swing in OAL is not uncommon, although some setups will do better, especially if the seating stem is a great fit for the bullet.)

 

[WrongHanded]

I understand, but a metric boatload of jacketed, plated, lead, and now coated have been shot with about 5.0 Grs of W-231. My only caveat would be not too short, thus my 1.260 to 1.265 OAL recommendation. (A .005 swing in OAL is not uncommon, although some setups will do better, especially if the seating stem is a great fit for the bullet.)

Excellent! I'll keep the charge at 4.9gr, and just seat the bullet a little further, then see about that crimp. Thanks!

 

[Blue68f100]

Never say never, but I've never seen a ,45 ACP seater with a roll crimp built in, they have all been taper crimps.

Hornady has a set of 45 dies that does 45acp and another 45 ? (don't remember) that has a roll crimp. So if you want a TC you had to buy it separately. They have since came out with a TC 45acp die set.

 

[Walkalong]

That's shortcutting in my book.

Just like their 9MM and .38 Spl seaters have the same insert with a kindofa roll crimp that can "taper" crimp the 9MM. Yea right, barely, with zero room for error.

Do they make more than one set of .45 ACP dies? The sizer for .45 Colt needs to be different than .45 ACP. Do they cheat and use the same insert for both like they do with 9MM & .38 Spl.

A "modified" roll crimp using a Hornady insert. The crimp ledge is somewhere around 45 degrees vs very steep angle for a normal roll crimp or very slight angle for a taper crimp.

 

[Charlie98]

Hornady has a set of 45 dies that does 45acp and another 45 ?

As a matter of fact, my original set of Hornady .45ACP dies boasts .45ACP/WM/Colt. Those of you who reload .45 Colt know that is just a train wreck waiting to happen. Just for giggles, I tried to size a .45Colt case with it... I didn't make it 1/3rd the way down the case.

WrongHanded, I'm not poo-pooing the Lee FCD, I can see their merit on rifle cartridges particularly, but I don't use them at all on pistol cartridges. I like a good roll crimp with my Magnum charge cartridges (where appropriate... like with W296, etc, and when they go into my lever-action guns,) or a taper crimp on my autoloading cartridges... both of which are applied separately from the bullet seat (I have a 5-station press.) Since I have gone whole hog with taper crimps vs roll crimps, my case life has increased dramatically, virtually eliminating case mouth cracks from overworking the brass. I just don't see the benefit of the FCD on pistol ammos... but I've never really used it on pistol ammos, either. I'm sure someone will be along that swears by the FCD for the .45ACP... and that's cool, too.

 

[Charlie98]

Never say never, but I've never seen a ,45 ACP seater with a roll crimp built in, they have all been taper crimps.

I think my original RCBS .45 die is a roller... I'd have to check, though. It's date stamped '86.

 

[WrongHanded]

Okay! 49 rounds (because I crush one primer into a case) done.

I ended up with 5.0gr as the powder measure was kicking out just a little higher than the 4.9gr I thought it was at. So I went with it. I adjusted OA to right around 1.260", with a range of 1.259"-1.261". However my digital calipers are not of the highest quality.

I'll let you all know how it goes. Thanks for all the help everyone!

 

[mstreddy]

Blue, Walkalong, yeah, the Hornady die sets with the Roll crimp for some autoloaders -- 9MM is one. The set only came with the roll crimp. You had to pay for the taper crimp die. I don't know why they did that for a long time. I think that the newer sets come with the taper crimp now.

 

[mstreddy]

Wrong handed, those look good. Now, go and shoot them -- choot em!

 

[Walkalong]

Blue, Walkalong, yeah, the Hornady die sets with the Roll crimp for some autoloaders -- 9MM is one. The set only came with the roll crimp. You had to pay for the taper crimp die. I don't know why they did that for a long time. I think that the newer sets come with the taper crimp now.

That would irk me if they sold me a seater die with the wrong crimp built in and made me buy a proper crimp die.

 

[mstreddy]

They've "gotten away" with it for a while. IIRC up until a year or two ago, if you looked at their listed sets, the 9MM set included the roll crimp die. The taper crimp was listed separately. I think their new "value" American line has a taper crimp.

Just checked their website -- still listed that way.

I had gotten the Hornady set in a box of reloading gear a buddy gave me. So, I can't complain about the price, but it has annoyed me that the die needed for the caliber is extra.
I do, however, like the seating sleeve that helps guide/line up the bullet.

 

[Charlie98]

Because I crimp in a separate step, I don't really care if it comes with the correct crimp or not... but if you are all-in-one'ing it I could see where it might be a problem. Now that I think about it, I don't really know... or maybe 'was not consciously aware of...' autoloading dies having nothing but roll crimps, I just assumed they did and bought a separate taper crimp as a matter of course.

I actually use taper crimp dies on some of my rifle rounds, too... like in .308, when I'm loading cast for my Savage 99. Because it has a rotary mag, I don't need the roll crimp, but I need to take the M-die flare out after seating.

 

[WrongHanded]

They have been shot!

I used my Sig P220. Partly as an excuse to function test a new 10 round mag, which in hind sights, could have cause troubleshooting issues had things not gone right. But things did go right. Every round fed, every bullet went down range first time, and every case ejected. The recoil felt decent, so I will try the same loading again and compare it to the S+B I bought for target work. Then maybe tweak the load a little if it seems neccessary. But so far I'm very happy with it.

Now, the accuracy of a load is a hard thing for me to measure. I still haven't got the hang of resting on a bench (it causes strange results, but let's not add to this thread with that discussion). So I just sat down unsupported and fired off my last 10 shots at a distance of 25 feet. [Insert excuses for poor performance here: My shoulder hurt, I had too much coffee, my goldfish is going through a mid-life crisis, etc..]

Here's the target:


The red dot is a 2" diameter, or pretty close. I did a poor job. But I think the load is more accurate than I am, and that's all I really need right now. So I'll try it in my 1911 once I load some more. Maybe even with a little more precision....or maybe not, if my goldfish isn't feeling better.

 

[Blue68f100]

Hint: When shooting pistol from a bench just rest your wrist/forearms only. This steadies your upper body and allow for easy sight alignment.

Congrats on your first outing with the 45acp. The Sig 220 is a very accurate gun with the right ammo and shooter.

 

[WrongHanded]

Hint: When shooting pistol from a bench just rest your wrist/forearms only. This steadies your upper body and allow for easy sight alignment.

Congrats on your first outing with the 45acp. The Sig 220 is a very accurate gun with the right ammo and shooter.

Thanks! Interestingly, I've had better results resting on a bench with my non-dominant hand. I'll keep working on it periodically. And I agree about the P220's capabilities. The only part of the equation to blame today was the shooter. But I still enjoyed myself.

 

[cfullgraf]

Now that I think about it, I don't really know... or maybe 'was not consciously aware of...' autoloading dies having nothing but roll crimps, I just assumed they did and bought a separate taper crimp as a matter of course.

When I got into reloading around 1980, virtually all commonly available die sets for semi-auto cartridges came with roll crimp seater dies. Magazines carried articles of how to get a taper like crimp with a roll crimp die, primarily for the 45 ACP, so that the case still head spaced on the case mouth.

Taper crimp dies without seating capabilities were available, generally by special order, for the popular semi-auto cartridges.

My RCBS 45 ACP die set, circa late 1970s, has a roll crimp seater die. I bought an RCBS taper crimp/no seat die for it.

In the early 1980s, Lee began producing a line of taper crimp dies. I bought many of them and still use a few of them. They got me in the habit of crimping in a separate step.

Now a days, more die sets come with taper crimp seater die. But one needs to pay attention to what is in the box because some cartridges's die sets are offered with either a taper crimp or roll crimp.

 

[lightman]

I'm figuring less than 5 cents for a target load using my cast bullet and lead that I did not buy and a case that I already have. This number has no time or equipment cost figured in.

 

[Charlie98]

....or maybe not, if my goldfish isn't feeling better.

I've got a turtle that's going through the same thing... but you must control your emotions and leave them in the truck once you get to the range. I tried bringing Ted, my red-eared slider, to the range with me, but he heckled me the entire time, which didn't help.

Anyway... the important thing is... they all went 'bang' and cycled, and they all hit the paper, more or less, in the same area. I usually have a box of factory ammo with me when I'm testing new loads, just to compare accuracy and get a feel for the differences in recoil impulse (and ejection, with autoloaders.)