Courtesy/Guilt of buying from the local store vs. online

[2WheelsGood]

when the choices are buy from a rude moron at a higher price or buy online at a much cheaper price its not a hard decision

That I can agree with. I find it strange and surprising that the gun store employees/owners I've met are rather rude. Maybe it's some macho bravado thing that comes with the territory. Surprisingly, the best service I've gotten consistently is Gander Mountain. Though sadly their prices are so high it's usually the last place I look.

Ultimately, though, my comment wasn't just about gun stores. I was speaking generally about retail stores vs. online stores.

 

[Hook686]

DEAHEAT wrote:

Why pay 15 a box when you can pay 10? Not like the gunshop gives you a break if you buy everything there.

Hmmmmm Perhaps. A few of years ago my son borrowed my WWII P-38 to take to the range. He brought it back without a gas piston in it ... the retaining spring had broken and the piston went missing. I took the pistol to my gun shop. The owner looked at it and said he would have to search for a piston and to leave the pistol, as it might take a few weeks. A month later he called a said he had not located one, and was in the process of machining one. A couple weeks later he called and said he had worked on two pistons he had machined, but neither were 100% reliable when placed in the pistol. He would continue to search for a replacement part. A month later he called and told me he had located a part, obtained it and put it in the pistol. I could pick up my WWII P-38 (a pistol my dad brought back from Euorpe in 1945). Total charge to me .... $30.I doubt either Wal-Mart, or Bud's can do that for me.

 

[DEAHEAT]

My gunshop sent my m&p 15-22 back to s&w for free......... they all have there perks but for the most part the normal shop is out to get you.

 

[dirtyjim]

Hmmmmm Perhaps. A few of years ago my son borrowed my WWII P-38 to take to the range. He brought it back without a gas piston in it ... the retaining spring had broken and the piston went missing. I took the pistol to my gun shop. The owner looked at it and said he would have to search for a piston and to leave the pistol, as it might take a few weeks. A month later he called a said he had not located one, and was in the process of machining one. A couple weeks later he called and said he had worked on two pistons he had machined, but neither were 100% reliable when placed in the pistol. He would continue to search for a replacement part. A month later he called and told me he had located a part, obtained it and put it in the pistol. I could pick up my WWII P-38 (a pistol my dad brought back from Euorpe in 1945). Total charge to me .... $30.I doubt either Wal-Mart, or Bud's can do that for me.

it sounds like your guy has already made his money and is doing it for fun now.
i've known a few like that over the years but they are the exception not the rule.

 

[Bubba613]

Buying something from out of state online isn't cheating the state out of sales tax money. You didn't buy it in state so they don't get to collect.

Uh, that would be incorrect in Arkansas:

Do I owe Use Tax?
You should pay Use Tax if you:

* Purchased items outside Arkansas that would be taxable if purchased in Arkansas (including items from catalogues, TV advertisements, magazines, the Internet, etc.)
* Use, store, consume, or distribute these items in Arkansas, and
* Have not paid Arkansas sales tax or an equivalent amount to another state.

What if I do pay tax to the other state?
If you legally paid sales tax on the items in the other state, you maybe entitled to a reduction in tax for the tax paid to the other state against the tax due Arkansas. If you pay less than the Arkansas tax rate to the other state, you must pay Arkansas the difference.

What are some items on which I would owe Use Tax?
Examples of items subject to Use Tax include records, CD's, books, furniture, jewelry, clothing, food, hunting and fishing gear, etc. These are only a few examples; all tangible personal property purchased out of state is subject to the Use Tax.

How and when do I report and pay Use Tax?
Businesses registered with Arkansas to remit Sales Tax should remit any Use Tax due in Column B on their monthly (quarterly or annual) reporting form.
Individual Consumer Use Tax should be reported on a monthly basis if the total tax amount due is greater than $100 per month, on a quarterly basis if the amount due is $25 - $100 per month, and on an annual basis if the amount due is less than $25 per month.

http://www.dfa.arkansas.gov/offices/exciseTax/salesanduse/Pages/FAQs.aspx
It would appear you are liable for sales taxes on items purchased out of state and shipped in to AR that haven't had sales tax paid.

 

[Bubba613]

it sounds like your guy has already made his money and is doing it for fun now.
i've known a few like that over the years but they are the exception not the rule.

Actually it doesn't sound like anything of the sort.

 

[Mags]

Uh, that would be incorrect in Arkansas:

Not everyone lives in Arkansas. BTW how are we supposed to know you live in Arkansas? Ain't like your location is in your profile.

 

[Bubba613]

No, the person who made the comment that the state has no right to sales tax money lives in AR. Thus the reference to AR.
My state, not AR, also has a Use tax for such things. I would bet many states do.

 

[Neverwinter]

Thought experiment: Assume you were in the market for a Colt SAA. Which of the following would you buy from?
1. Some local gun store selling for $4000
2. Mayor Bloomberg selling for $3000 something obtained from a "buy-back"

 

[Mags]

How about we stay on topic and say:

Buy a Gun from Buds for 450 plus 25 dollar transfer fee
or
Buy a gun from the know it all at the gun store for 550

My rule is if I can save 50 bucks or more after transfer I will buy online.

My favorite storefront FFL is closing down his brick and mortar and is only going to do internet transactions. He always had the lowest prices in town but even he acknowledged he can't keep up with the net. He was the first place I would go, I would show him a gun I was interested in on the web and ask if he could come within 50 bucks of the listed price. Most of the time he was within 20 bucks. But I guess to some folks the 20 bucks was worth more in their pocket than his.

 

[DAP90]

I’ve bought all but one of my guns locally. The one I did buy online I checked with my preferred local dealer first and he couldn’t get a hold of one. He gladly accepted the transfer.

I like to hold a gun before I buy it; understand that there is value in a dealer’s knowledge and service, and that I should support them for these things even if it means paying a little more.

On the other hand I’ve had more bad experiences with local dealers than positive ones. Finding a good LGS is tough. When I was still learning about guns it always seemed like I couldn’t get help, got attitude or just plain bad advice. That ended up costing me time and money. It nearly turned me off shooting sports entirely.

There’s one dealer locally I like to support. If the rest go out of business and take their “expertise and service” with them I couldn’t care less, the market will adjust.

The market is changing and has been for some time but I very much doubt guns will go completely too online sales. Guns are too personal. Fit and handling are too important and in many cases, they cost too much to not want to see what you’re getting first.

The one I bought online was a model I already owned in another caliber so I knew what I was getting. That doesn’t mean some people won’t use the LGS only to handle models and then buy online but it also means if you can develop even a minimal relationship with your customers they will buy from you.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Uh, that would be incorrect in Arkansas:

http://www.dfa.arkansas.gov/offices/exciseTax/salesanduse/Pages/FAQs.aspx
It would appear you are liable for sales taxes on items purchased out of state and shipped in to AR that haven't had sales tax paid.

And most, if not all, other states with a Sales Tax as well. You make a purchase, even from an individual, even from another state, while a resident of that state, you owe sales tax on that sale.

The ONLY reason it's not collected the vast majority of the time is because the state has no way to know of the sale. Where they -do- become aware of the sale (autos, boats, aircraft, etc) they -do- have mechanisms in place to collect the sales tax.

 

[mcdonl]

I buy almost everything now through a local FFL. He is a good guy, offers me coffee and somehow gets me guns CHEAPER than online.

He has even offered to get my other items at his cost, but I am so grateful that he can get me the guns I want at a good price I do not want to push it.

On the rare occasion I can find something cheaper online I always ship to him.

 

[Samari Jack]

Prediction:

Rare, if any gun stores unless you count Walmart.
Will be bought at gun shows or transferred to people like my neighbor with a FFL and little or no inventory operating out of his basement.
Most all privately own business will be taxed and charged for permits out of existance. Example, in our closest town(from a letter I sent to the local editorial page of our paper): On taxes for small business, the discussion lately has centered on Federal income tax which is only a part of the tax an entrepreneur pays. In addition there is state tax, property tax on their home and business, matching Social Security tax on employees and themselves, franchise tax on inventory to the state, road tax on trucks used for business, unemployment tax, and ground water runoff tax. Refuse disposal fees. Deed stamps on sale of property/houses (tax), City privilege license fees, permit fees, impact fees and land set asides given up free for recreation purposes that end up as motocross tracks that law enforcement can’t do anything about but property owners have to fix. Fees and rules come in two tiers, one for residents, and another for business. Fines are levied against property owners, not illegal dumpers. There are multiple layers of insurance, and interest on debt or inventory, and complicated OSHA regulations.

 

[Zumet]

I've only bought guns from local dealers. I get treated real good,he's taken a jammed pistol in the back fixed it in 10 minutes,"no charge" same for a reloading die with a stuck shell, or my 380 Colt that I took apart to clean and bent a piece and couldn't get back together.
I like to say,, I buy my socks and underwear at wally world,and my guns at a gun store. One of the local guys used to have a sign with his prices, and at the bottom he said,, take your scope to the place you bought it and have them install it!

 

[dirtyjim]

Actually it doesn't sound like anything of the sort

its the only explanation there is.
if you can think of a better one i'd like to hear it. if he does that for all his customers he will shortly be out of business.


i also see a lot of the mom & pop hardware stores being compared to the brick & mortar gunshops in this thread and i think the comparison is backwards. if you want something generic you go to a B&M gunshop or home depot, if you want something unique or hard to find you go to the internet or a mon & pop hardware store.

 

[oneounceload]

So you can cheat the state out of sales tax money? Nice.
I think I missed the part where the state had a legitimate claim to the money in the first place

Actually, LEGALLY, you are obligated to remit the sales tax to your state on out of state purchases (in states with a sales tax). Since it is so hard to enforce, no one does it. However, many states are now requiring internet businesses to collect and remit their sales tax to them. As states are scrambling for revenue, expect this to increase greatly in the near future

 

[Bubba613]

its the only explanation there is.
if you can think of a better one i'd like to hear it. if he does that for all his customers he will shortly be out of business.

He enjoys his business. He has an extra skill set not usually seen in gunshops. He is into service for his customers. I doubt he makes parts like that a dozen times a year.
The proof is that no one in his right mind would deal with some of the morons one encounters as gunshop customers just for the fun of it.

 

[22-rimfire]

The gun business on a retail level is going through a transformation with the ease of advertising something for sale "on line" versus the old way of posting an ad in Gun List or Shotgun News or private mailings. I don't know where things will end up on this change, but many small gun shops will likely go out of business and transfer fees will go up. The online business only forces local gunshops to charge more. It is a viscious cycle and very cut throat.

I like local gunshops. I have had some negative experiences and over time, those bruises have healed and I my relationship has improved with these shops. I don't expect them to know my name, recognize me when walking around the mall, or be my friend. One local shop in my area always gave me bad vibs and acted like they didn't want my business. They are gone now. But ultimately, I did get some nice stuff from them and the prices were pretty fair overall. You just have to get past the gunshop clingons who always know better than you. It is easy for a small shop owner to get caught in this, but the owner just has to make an effort with the buyer.

The sales tax issue is an interesting one to me which is why I brought it up earlier. The lack of sales tax often compensates for shipping costs at a minimum which makes "catalog sales" cost effective. I am not fond of paying sales tax or any tax for that matter. But we expect the roads to be maintained, plowed when it snows, schools to be built and staffed, as well as many other government services on a Federal, State, and Local level. We just want somebody else to pay for them.

 

[Bubba613]

I miss Gun CIty. Their remarkable customer handling skills made even a mediocre shop look great by comparison.
I have a strong feeling the sales tax issue in TN is going to be changing shortly, with dealers forced to collect sales tax on transferred items.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

You are a price buyer. You need to be shopping at Cabela's, WalMart, Sam's or some other Mart.

Just like you need to be participating in this discussion by snail mail or long distance telephone.

 

[Davek1977]

Just like you need to be participating in this discussion by snail mail or long distance telephone.

Isn't telling other people how you think they ought to do things fun?!?!?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Isn't telling other people how you think they ought to do things fun?!?!?

Yep, the next step is telling them what they think -- and never realizing that at that point you're arguing with someone who lives only inside your own head.

 

[au01st]

and never realizing that at that point you're arguing with someone who lives only inside your own head.

At least that way you're always right!

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
and never realizing that at that point you're arguing with someone who lives only inside your own head.

At least that way you're always right!

That's probably why it's so popular.