Crimping 9mm Not Required?

[DMW1116]

I just crimp basically everything, 9mm included, on the minimum crimp setting on my Lee FCD, with one exception. I shoot quite a few cast bullets and at least have to remove the case flair. Those 9mm feed ramps are kinda steep too.

My 308 old with a 175 grain SMK doesn’t get crimped. I cycled one through the action of my AR 10, dropping the bolt from the latch and it moved 0.001” each time, forward not back.

 

[CQB45ACP]

You brought up the subject as if taper crimping is not required based on your 10 examples. Just because they plunked means nothing Did you shoot them, did you measure set back?
Crimp or don't crimp it's up to you. I tried to point out the valid reasons to crimp.

Got it thanks

I don’t doubt nor accept the validity because I simply only know what sources say. Im left with weighing which source I choose to trust. Might be more like chicken soup—can’t hurt.

These particular rounds will be shot tomorrow numerous identical others (several hundred perhaps) over last several weeks or month.

Before I started using a Redding seater couple months ago I used to run em through the FCD without even using a gauge. Don’t know why specifically.

Thanks for feedback

 

[mdi]

I do not "crimp" any semi-auto handload. I just use a "deflaring die" (aka; "taper crimp die") to remove flare and enable good plunking. I haven't measured any case mouths of my handloads in a very long time, but often (99% of the time) there is no real swaging of the case. Neck tension holds the bullets in place. I started reloading 45 ACP in about '86 and 9mm about '90 and 32 ACP, and 380 ACP later. None of my handloads have been crimped, just deflared. No feeding/recoil "pushbacks". Early on I double checked often (fired a round, removed and measured the next fed round). Many mistakes are made by newer reloaders crimping their semi-auto handloads (over crimping , swaging bullets and bulging cases, "loosening" neck tension are common).

 

[CQB45ACP]

I wholeheartedly agree with the "do what works for you" mantra.

I can't help but wonder, however why wouldn't you want to crimp?

Are you on a single stage and it adds another step?
Cutting the thin copper plating?

Curiosity has gotten the better of me

I've loaded 9mm since the late 80's and have always "crimped" (more like remove the flair) but the Dillon SD I've use size my cases to the point of leaving a noticeable bulge at the base of my bullets eliminating any chance of the bullet getting pushed back in the case during the feeding process.

And, since I'm reloading on a progressive press I'm already pulling the handle anyway.
View attachment 1150117

I can't tell from your picture if your rounds look like mine.

Also, this little bit of commentary at the end of the description of the 9mm cartridge in my Speer #11 has always stuck in my mind

View attachment 1150118

“More like removing the flair” is what I did too BUT what if there is no flair is essentially my issue. The gauge reveals there is no flair so I just shoot ‘em as they are.

actually I don’t mind crimping but why bother is where I am

 

[CQB45ACP]

I do not "crimp" any semi-auto handload. I just use a "deflaring die" (aka; "taper crimp die") to remove flare and enable good plunking. I haven't measured any case mouths of my handloads in a very long time, but often (99% of the time) there is no real swaging of the case. Neck tension holds the bullets in place. I started reloading 45 ACP in about '86 and 9mm about '90 and 32 ACP, and 380 ACP later. None of my handloads have been crimped, just deflared. No feeding/recoil "pushbacks". Early on I double checked often (fired a round, removed and measured the next fed round). Many mistakes are made by newer reloaders crimping their semi-auto handloads (over crimping , swaging bullets and bulging cases, "loosening" neck tension are common).

Okay got it. What if, like mine, there is no flair (it drops cleanly into gauge for example)? What do you do then?

 

[mdi]

So if there were no flair would you still do it? That’s where I am.

Probably not, but I flare all my handloaded cases . It's often difficult to and shove a .357" rod into a .354" tube without some sort of "entry way". If there is no flare hindering plunking, why bother? (but then a lot of shooters use a Lee FCD die for piece of mind, to "insure" all rounds chamber.)

I'm in the "Try it and If It works the way you like it, Great!" camp. It's your time, money guns, and handloads. If something works for you, fergit what others do and "carry on" (as long as your loads are safe and don't endanger a shooter in the next stall.)

 

[Otto]

Your finished round should be 0.380” max
How you get there is up to you.

 

[rfwobbly]

• By definition, Taper Crimp is only to remove the belling (aka "flare"). So, if you don't bell/ flare your cases to start with, then you shouldn't need to taper crimp.

• Cases are belled to make bullet seating easier. Some plated bullets have such a generous base radius that seating without belling is possible. Conversely, a lot of lead bullets require case belling to prevent "shaving" during seating. Jacketed bullets are in the middle somewhere. Regardless, seating is always easier with at least some case belling. What is possible with 1 cartridge per minute on a single-stage press does not apply when making 20+ rounds per minute on a progressive.

• There are multiple designs for implementing a taper crimp within the die. Some die brands use a sudden diameter change, which leaves a telltale indentation. Other brands use a long slow taper which leaves no mark at all.

• When people say they "don't taper crimp", they usually meet 1 of 2 conditions:
1. Their process works OK for a single brand of bullet which they use exclusively. Their statement sounds 'global' as if they never taper crimp for ANY type, size or brand of bullet for multiple brands of pistols, but in reality it only applies to 1 type bullet shot in 1 handgun.
2. They do not realize that their die set is beginning the taper crimp process in the Seating Die. Leaving off the Taper Crimp Die simply leaves the cartridge in an half-finished state.

 

[NMexJim]

Ironically, despite my best efforts, I cannot get my 45acp rounds to not need a crimp except maybe 10% and then mostly thinner Winchester cases.

I had problems w/ .45 at one time. The bullets were HSM. I had to go past just ironing out the flare as I would w/ 9mm. I put a pretty good squeeze on them but still had near .473.

I did everything I could think of including reset my sizing die. I've never had the problem since.

 

[lightman]

So if there were no flair would you still do it? That’s where I am.

No, probably not. I guess I misunderstood.

 

[Walkalong]

Okay got it. What if, like mine, there is no flair (it drops cleanly into gauge for example)? What do you do then?

Since I load 9MM on a progressive, the anti flare die is always functioning.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Since I load 9MM on a progressive, the anti flare die is always functioning.

As @Y-T71 asked, I’m a single stager, so I can add/continue with an unneeded step or skip it.

 

[Walkalong]

To answer the question another way, I would still run them through it.

 

[Zendude]

As @Y-T71 asked, I’m a single stager, so I can add/continue with an unneeded step or skip it.

If you’re using Lee dies, the seating die is also a crimp/de-flare die (sort of), so there’s no need to change dies to remove the flare. The sizing die is what really creates the potential neck tension, the way I understand it.

 

[mdi]

Not to be arguementative, but I use mixed brass in many/most of my handloads. I use jacketed and cast bullets, running from nominal diameter for jacketed bullets up to .003"+ over size for cast bullets. I do not crimp any semi auto cartridge. I remove flare only, and do not swage the case into the bullet. I disagree with the notion that only one diameter bullet, one case mfg. to get safe and accurate handloads, with reliable neck tension. I have tested my handoads by allowing a handload, sans "crimp", to be fed two to four times then OAL mesured. Just my experince reloading semi autos for 9 pistols for approx. 35 years...

 

[mdi]

As @Y-T71 asked, I’m a single stager, so I can add/continue with an unneeded step or skip it.

Try it and see for yourelf...

 

[CQB45ACP]

Try it and see for yourelf...

Yep. I’ve been skipping it for a couple hundred rounds or so. No problems of course or my thread would’ve been begun much differently. If I had begun it at all.

I’ll be at range 9am sharp today. Will report back…or my wife will.

 

[CQB45ACP]

If you’re using Lee dies, the seating die is also a crimp/de-flare die (sort of), so there’s no need to change dies to remove the flare. The sizing die is what really creates the potential neck tension, the way I understand it.

Thanks and I understand that…as I said in OP I use Redding comp which has no such feature and for this test also used Lee.

 

[Charlie98]

Well now we’re getting into the how and wherefore of what keeps a bullet in place and is it a taper crimp—I’ll just refer to Lees manual cause it’s all I have handy…taper crimping on straight wall auto pistol cartridges doesn’t keep bullet in place.

But thanks for the input I knew this was going to happen

Tell you what...

Load up 5 rounds your way. Pop them out with a knentic hammer. Then load 5 rounds with a reasonable taper crimp. Knock those out with a knetic hammer. Tell me which ones required more force to move.

 

[jmorris]

The GSI bullet feeders hold my bullets straight enough, for seating, that I can get away with almost zero bell/flare on the case. Like this round that’s not yet “crimped” and the case that’s next for bullet seating to depth.



I do not rely on crimp to hold my bullet in place on bullets that do not have a cannelure.

It doesn’t take much crimp to absolutely destroy what little accuracy plated bullets do have.

“Crimp” to me, again for bullets that lack a cannelure, would be better described as “unflared”.

If you can pull your bullets and see where the case has swaged them down, you are probably doing more harm than good anyway. like these being passed on to others as “pulled” vs “destroyed”.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Tell you what...

Load up 5 rounds your way. Pop them out with a knentic hammer. Then load 5 rounds with a reasonable taper crimp. Knock those out with a knetic hammer. Tell me which ones required more force to move.

What a great idea! I’ll do that today.

 

[Charlie98]

What a great idea! I’ll do that today.

And... understand... I'm not trying to bust your chops. I really do think you've found a magical combination of bullet/die/case that sure looks like it's working well for you. If you are able to remove one step of your process, particularly on a single-stage (been there, done that...) and still getting the results you want... more power to you.

 

[higgite]

As we all know, conventional wisdom is to taper crimp, or “anti flare” as Walkalong more accurately called it.

The way I see it is… the by the book recommendation to taper crimp is intended to cover all reloaders and their different degrees of flaring the case mouth. That doesn’t mean it’s always needed.

I have my own procedure for setting my combo seating/taper crimp dies. I usually get 1 or 2 out of 100 that don’t pass the gauge but still do plunk okay. It works for me, but maybe not for everybody.

If you don’t need to crimp your reloads, then it is what it is. Whatever works. ymmv

 

[Rule3]

Everyday learn something new
No longer a taper crimp, it is a flair removal device

 

[jmorris]

Many would be better off if they changed the name. Lots of bullets out there compromised by “crimps” swaging them to different outside diameters and in the case of plating, it helps the plating detach fro the lead too.