Quantcast

Cross Draw?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Styx, Apr 14, 2019.

  1. Styx

    Styx Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Messages:
    635
    What is the consensus on cross draw holsters? Anyone using this method of carry? Is it typically more concealable than OWB pancake holsters?
     
  2. Obturation

    Obturation Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2018
    Messages:
    419
    Location:
    Northern illinois
    I use a couple shoulder holsters, theyre cross draw for obvious reasons. I think you're talking belt holster though. My take on it is that i do feel like a larger gun conceals more easily mainly by not having the butt poking out when you bend over, instead it jabs you in the guts. To me crossdraw is like offside appendix carry, unless you get a holster with extreme cant.it is a good method if you drive a lot or are seated the majority of the time.
    I find it tough to conceal much strongside owb. Or you could get an NAA and try under hat carry, that conceals the best i think.
     
    ancientnoob and Styx like this.
  3. IlikeSA

    IlikeSA Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2005
    Messages:
    988
    I've tried it a few times but prefer larger revolvers for carry, so I did not find it ideal. I found it more difficult to conceal than strong side OWB in a pancake holster. The other two issues with crossdraw is A: you reach across yourself to draw, so an assailant in close range can pin your arm to your stomach/chest and B: you put the weapon in reach of an assailant at close range and it is lined up for him/her to draw it.

    I also find there to a speed issue, but with practice, perhaps it can be overcome.
     
    Styx likes this.
  4. JTQ

    JTQ Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,992
    Location:
    NW Florida
    I've not used a cross draw holster, but with the understanding the original Nelson #1 Professional (like the Sparks 55BN) was a straight drop holster intended for both strong side and cross draw use, I've tried a couple of my straight drop holsters in the cross draw position. They haven't worked for me in the cross draw position. The grip stuck out quite a bit, and a holster that was very stable on the strong side, was somewhat floppy in cross draw. Once again, these were not specifically designed cross draw holsters, and they were used on a Wilderness 5-stitch Instructor belt. A different holster and belt may work better.
     
    Styx likes this.
  5. Anchorite

    Anchorite Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2018
    Messages:
    147
    I have to agree with what IlikeSA and JTQ both said. I would add that I believe even in a cross draw situation when one draws their weapon and acquires their target they would potentially “sweep” unintentionally anyone in front of them who may not be threats. Does that make sense?
     
    Styx likes this.
  6. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    6,109
    Location:
    South Eastern Illinois
    Cross draw works best for seated positions, car, ATV, horseback....etc. I carry crossdraw quite often but not for concealment.
    A suggestion:
    Order a Desantis SofTuck for your gun model.
    15552465800647419457445309920808.jpg

    They are inexpensive quality, and can be worn almost any position...including crossdraw.
    ~ $25 to your door.
    I'm getting at least one more for myself.
     
  7. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    8,376
    Good points.

    Good point.
     
    jstert and Styx like this.
  8. 40-82

    40-82 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    340
    If I'm going to carry a second gun, my preferred position for it is a cross draw. In particularly rough country a holster I've come to rely upon is the El Paso Saddlery full flap cross draw. I like it over other cross draws because it has the old World War II type canteen snap. I wouldn't trust an ordinary snap. I've been swimming in fast water when my canoe went down, and the six-gun stayed with me. Should you come up on a strange shore in a wilderness setting, wet and cold with nothing but what's on your person, a six-gun makes you feel a little less alone, and bumps up your place a bit on the food chain. The holster conceals reasonably well under a heavy coat in cold weather, and just with a long shirt tail out in warm weather it offers enough casual concealment that most people would just look at me and imagine I ought to go on a diet.

    A full flap cross draw can be surprisingly fast, but it takes two hands to do that, and will still be a heartbeat behind an open top. I usually reserve them for the roughest country.

    An open topped cross draw is as fast as anything, especially if you angle your body toward the target; problem with that is it requires some forethought or premonition. Yeah, I'll always want a few cross draws around for special circumstance, and a few open tops with neutral cants to use as cross draws when I want a second gun.
     
    jstert, Armored farmer and Styx like this.
  9. WrongHanded
    • Contributing Member

    WrongHanded Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Messages:
    1,061
    A: There's always the option to draw with the non-dominant hand in such a situation where the strong arm is pinned, which an attacker is probably not expecting. And if you were to turn away and bend at the hips, you'd have room to draw and shoot whilst your strong arm held them back.

    B: If the weapon is concealed, the gun is not immediately accessible to an attacker, regardless of holster position. If the holster is not concealed, I'd rather have someone try and take it from a crossdraw holster at my front, than take it from a strong side holster from behind me.

    I like to think about how I would take a gun from someone carrying the way I am carrying, and how I would defend such an attempt. Crossdraw does offer some advantages here, in my opinion. If the strong side arm is blocked, the weak side can pull and shoot. If a grab is made, the weak side applies pressure down to keep the gun in the holster, and the strong side pulls a knife and stabs.

    I'm not saying crossdraw is the best. But it's not as terrible as it's been made out to be. Every carry method has strengths and weaknesses.
     
    qwert65, OrangePwrx9, tipoc and 2 others like this.
  10. JTQ

    JTQ Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,992
    Location:
    NW Florida
    Styx and 40-82 like this.
  11. Styx

    Styx Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Messages:
    635
    Okay now that I've read and have taken into consideration all the tactical pros and cons, what about comfort and concealment pros and cons?

    In your experiences, do you feel that cross draw holsters generally offer better or worse comfort and concealment vs pancake holsters?

    I've always been an OWB pancake holster guy, but I'm thinking about trying an canted OWB crossdraw. I'd like to get all the information I can before potentially wasting $75-$100+...
     
  12. JTQ

    JTQ Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,992
    Location:
    NW Florida
    You may want to try a 3-slot pancake that allows cross draw and strong side, like one of the Simply Rugged pancakes.

    https://www.simplyrugged.com/ecommerce/LEATHER GUN HOLSTERS.cfm?cat_id=669

    You could give the cross draw a go, but if it doesn't work (understanding these are not dedicated cross draw holsters, but probably close enough for you to figure out the big picture of comfort/concealment) you still have a perfectly good strong side pancake holster (like you normally use).
     
    Styx likes this.
  13. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    6,109
    Location:
    South Eastern Illinois
    This Roy's Original will do either crossdraw or strongside.
    20160907_083856.jpg
     
    jstert, Lucky Derby, dirtman and 2 others like this.
  14. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Messages:
    9,731
    Location:
    The Land that Time Forgot
    I’ve cross draw carried an Xframe. Don’t care for it in a concealed carry gun myself.
     
  15. dfariswheel

    dfariswheel Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    6,238
    Cross draw does not conceal as well as a strong side because it's worn farther to the front while a typical strong side rides behind the hip bone. If you slide a cross draw to the rear it conceals about as well as a strong side, but it's inaccessible for a fast draw.
    This puts the properly worn cross draw up in a more exposed position that's harder to conceal.
    There's lots of strong side inside the waist band holsters, not so many for cross draw.

    The advantages of the cross draw are better comfort and access while seated and access with the off hand if your normal gun hand is unavailable for some reason.

    One big advantage of a cross draw is that of the appendix carry..... speed.
    To draw a strong side you have to use your gun hand to sweep the coat out of the way and keep it out of the way while you draw the gun.
    This is a problem some older cops solved by sewing a small lead weight into the tail of the coat so the coat tail would swing away if you did a fast hip duck to the side.

    The appendix and cross draw can be very fast because you use your off hand to open the coat.
    Also, if you have your hands in a forward or clasped position, your gun hand is RIGHT ON the gun.
    All you have to do is lift the coat and your hand is already on the gun.
    One of Jeff Cooper's shooting friends was a narc cop who adopted the habit of clasping his hands in front in a none threatening hippy method.
    If needed he virtually had his gun already in his hand.

    I think it was famed Colt employee John "Fitz" Fitzgerald who developed a fast cross draw technique that eliminated sweeping someone else, swinging the gun past the target, AND limited a gun grab.
    What he did was to rotate his gun side away from an attacker as he grabbed his gun, then rotated his body back toward the attacker as he lifted the gun up out of the holster.
    As the holster moved away his hand lifted the gun and it was pointed right at the attacker.
    This looked like he was doing The Twist dance.

    The only problem with this is like all special techniques, it can't work all the time under all circumstances.
    This is like the old formal FBI technique of lifting the left foot, moving it a couple of feet to the left, then just squatting as the gun was drawn, holding the left arm across the chest to "block a bullet".

    Jeff Cooper and Sheriff Jack Weaver ended all this with their "Shoot as you are" method.
    That method teaches to just get the gun out and into action from no matter what position you're in and forget any special stances or techniques. If you're half way out of a car or jumping over a wall you can't use some special stance.

    The hazards of a gun grab from a cross draw are no worse then a rearward grab from a strong side, and even less then from a horizontal shoulder holster.
    The main reason the cross draw fell from police favor was because it was considered to be more dangerous on a shooting range during training while other shooters were on either side.
    These days you're seeing a lot more cops wearing horizontal shoulder holsters, which begs the question "What do they train with on the range"?

    The cross draw definitely has a place as a CCW holster, but you have to accept that an outside the waist band type won't conceal as well as a strong side.
    If you can work with that, or you spend a lot of time seated, especially in a vehicle, it's the preferred type for both comfort and accessibility.
    Some holster makers actually make special "Driving holsters" for bodyguards and other people who drive a lot.

    I very much like the cross draw and make my own.
    Here's one for a S&W Model 66 and another for a Kahr Arms K9.
    These have a reversed design with a forward seam to act as a sight channel and the smooth folded rear is more comfortable if it digs into the top of your leg. In addition, the folded rear makes for a much smoother draw since the gun can slide out faster without dragging on a welt.
    The Kahr holster has my "half and half" trigger guard design.

    Ys29q6W.jpg

    AvxUWUc.jpg

    tOS5M2r.jpg

    As a form of cross draw, these days I carry in a Blackhawk Urban Carry fanny pack.
    I installed a Kydex cross draw holster. Again, the front seam acts as a sight channel and the folded rear allows the gun to slip out without drag.
    This type of fanny pack is also known as a "5-5-10" because it allows drawing a gun and firing 5 shots in 5 seconds at 10 feet.

    ullcSG9.jpg
     
    Boarhunter and Anchorite like this.
  16. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,939
    Location:
    Mechanicsville, VA
    Cross draw may have some pros but IMHO I would carry a shoulder rig before I carried CD and just wear my IDPA vest in warmer months.

    But I luckily dont have to worry about those options because my heavily canted strongside carry suits me just fine.
     
  17. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Messages:
    4,586
    Location:
    Fl panhandle
    I could see an application for it in a vehicle or on a horse. Otherwise, not so much. Also, moving your handgun to different locations on your body, or switching holsters with different retention methods often leads to shenanigans. I've seen this many many times in the shoot house.
     
  18. IlikeSA

    IlikeSA Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2005
    Messages:
    988
    After reading Wronghanded's comment, I believe that crossdraw could be fast if done like Doc Holliday's draw towards the end of the movie Tombstone. You have to be in a ready position, which would make sense if one was in a dangerous situation. Just a thought.
     
  19. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2012
    Messages:
    8,121
    Location:
    SC (Home), VA (Work)
    Every holster style of carrying has its pros and cons. Accordingly, every style of carrying has it's peculiarities with respect to handling and training.

    The interesting thing about all this is that you are not necessarily limited to carrying one particular way all the time. Certain methods of carry may be more convenient or practical in some situations than others.

    I have not carried cross-draw. However, I can see where it would be practical under certain circumstances.

    If it suits you for a variety of reasons, then carry that way. All I have to say about it otherwise is to get yourself a QUALITY cross draw, supported by a QUALITY belt and then TRAIN with it.

    In my opinion (worth a cup of coffee at McDonalds if you add a dollar to it) most people have holster problems because they go with a low quality holster and/or an inappropriate belt.
     
    Lucky Derby likes this.
  20. Drail

    Drail Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,985
    In an age where we are all secured into our car seats by all manner of straps and buckles a crossdraw rig makes very good sense. Sitting on your gun and then covering it up with a seatbelt is not conducive to a rapid draw. Whatever mode of carry you pick try to stick with one and not swap around all the time. The split second you waste trying to remember where your gun is today might mean - you lose.
     
    jstert likes this.
  21. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,420
    Besides seated access the other main advantage of cross draw is the ease of reaching the gun when wearing a jacket type concealment garment. The strong hand can just slide right under the opposite side of the jacket and reach the gun. There is no need for the strong or weak hand to pull or push the jacket back to free up the gun.

    Most criticisms of cross draw these days focus on the way that the muzzle covers parts of your own body and others in the area during the draw. Most of that is avoided with a strong side holster and good technique. Such considerations are considered very important these days. But if it doesn't bother you, cross draw is hard to beat.

    The longer time to draw is insignificant and may not even exist in the clothing situation I mentioned above.

    Personally I think that cross draw is, on balance, the most natural and effective method. It is by far the smoothest motion not requiring very unnatural shoulder motions that are common in strong side draw.
     
  22. roo_ster

    roo_ster Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2003
    Messages:
    3,183
    Location:
    USA
    1. Cross draw is a valid method to pack a pistol, concealed or otherwise.

    2. I use it on occasion. Usually whilst driving and some times as a backup.

    3. Crossdraw is usually less concealable than strong-side OWB


    1. Comfort depends on what you are doing. If up and about, and bending over a lot, strong side OWB is more comfy. f seated, cross draw can be more comfy.

    2. Again, cross draw is less concealable.

    ===================

    The gun I am most likely to carry cross draw is a J-frame S&W. It will be a back-up or driving gun. If one must draw and fire while seated, likely it will be close like some guy reaching through the window. My 1911 won;t be much if any more use than a J-frame pressed into my assailants head or torso.

    IMO, a cross draw holster is not necessarily a "must have," but more a means to optimize one's carry options. For my larger service-sized guns I like to have a strong side OWB pancake, a wide-mount IWB like a MIlt SParks VMII, and a shoulder holster.

    Shoulder holsters are another thing entirely, though they are, too, cross draw.
     
  23. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    2,046
    Location:
    Northern CA
    I wear a crossdraw rig for horse back riding.

    It works if I am wearing a coat or not. It's on the left side if I need to rope or anything like that.

    Under a ranch coat, it is concealable but on hotter summer days, not so much.

    Example:
    o05QVbcIWANVNth50Vr9o3HxzZ9zzJtnD4wm9oUTsiCF-O-51ZHqf_2_JHFmaOk3FUF2kXlHHrfBXMfr5n8=w873-h654-no.jpg
     
    Lucky Derby and Styx like this.
  24. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,420
    Why would a cross draw rig be less concealable than the same size strong side rig? Theoretically cross draw could be IWB or OWB.
     
  25. JTQ

    JTQ Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,992
    Location:
    NW Florida
    Generally, cross draw would be worn forward of the point of the hip, while a concealment strong side holster would normally be worn aft of the point of the hip. With an open front concealment garment (understanding not all use this, but it is extremely common) and the curve of your body would most likely conceal the strong side holster better.

    If your concealment garment is a t-shirt or similar closed front garment, it probably makes little difference.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice