CSI: Miami Gun errors

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Anybody catch the season finale of CSI: Miami this past Monday?

I watched it last night and there were hordes of gun errors:
  • The bad guy was shooting with a semiautomatic pistol from 50-100 yards, and hitting his target.
  • They showed him shooting a semiautomatic pistol (which later appeared to be a Glock 17 with a 30-round magazine). They foley artist, however, paired the Glock, clearly seen shooting as a semiautomatic, with the sound of a submachine gun firing -- the sound of the shots clearly didn't pair with what was being seen. I'm guessing he saw the Glock and high-cap mag later, and assumed it was some kind of submachine gun.
  • The bad guy suffered a kaboom from bad ammo in his Glock. His wound was a powder burn on his neck, not burns and lacerations on his hand.
  • They commented that black powder is very unstable, and degrades over time, forming acidic by-products. Black powder is actually quite stable, and it's modern smokeless powders that produce acidic by-products as they degrade.
  • They commented that frangible ammo made from sintered metal powder penetrates body armor, yet fragments in soft tissue, and depicted a dozen exit wounds in somebody hit with a frangible round. This kind of ammo was also portrayed as "the most lethal ever made". My understanding is that the lethality of frangible ammo is rather debated.
  • Callie referred to complete cartridges as "bullets".
There were probably others, but these are the ones that stick in my mind this morning.
 
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The bad guy suffered a kaboom from bad ammo in his Glock.
Click to expand...
That's an error? :neener:


CSI is wonderful for errors, both gun and otherwise.


They commented that frangible ammo made from sintered metal powder penetrates body armor, yet fragments in soft tissue, and depicted a dozen exit wounds in somebody hit with a frangible round. This kind of ammo was also portrayed as "the most lethal ever made". My understanding is that the lethality of frangible ammo is rather debated.
Click to expand...
And this, children, is how anti-gun legislation begins!
 
I saw it and was amazed by the stupidity of it all. But what can be expected from TV.

Lots of ballistic and ammunition errors. Too many to list here.

Here's anopther one.
The 9mm rounds loaded with Black Powder in question were supposedly loaded in Russia or other communist country in the 1960's IIRC. :scrutiny:

bad guy suffered a kaboom from bad ammo in his Glock Hey it was a Glock. Don't you know they all go KaBoom! (Here we go........he he he )


Rob
 
I caught that live Monday night.
I really didn't pay a lot of attention to the sound the Glock made, but it did seem to be a little ... Incredible" that he fired from the distance he did as effectively as he managed.
The blackpowder 9 mm. was bizarre. I don't think any commercial concern has ever loaded a round intended for a semiauto with BP. I seem to recall at one forum (maybe this one) someone experimented with BP in a .45ACP and it worked, but was very dirty.
The cartridge seen in the show seemed to not have enough BP in it. When you load BP in cartridges (as has been done with .45-70, .44-40, .38-40, .45 Colt, etc.) you load the case up to the point where the bullet seats so there is no empty volume. You can shoot light loads, but the empty volume is filled with inert material. During the 19th century, .45-70 was downloaded for carbines as the .45-55, and the extra volume was filled with cork or cardboard.
You're right to note BP is stable and doesn't degrade as shown in that episode.

The gun used by the bad guy had a part of the grip fly off. Yup, should have injured his hand ... wonder how it got his neck .... maybe the blast turned around a corner ????
Oh well. It's a TV show. C.S.I. shows have been highly criticized by people who know how it's really done for many technical errors.
While they do have a good point ... it's just TV.
Silenced revolvers are a old and classic mistake!
 
fletcher said:
That's an error?
Click to expand...

Not that the Glock went kaboom with bad ammo -- I have a Glock 30, and I won't shoot anything but premium factory ammo in it -- but that the wound was a powder burn on the neck, and not lacerations and burns to the hands.
 
While we're nit-picking-

Wouldn't a 9mm loaded with black powder be SIGNIFICANTLY underpowered?

Anyone care to figure out that math?
 
It's a TV show for cryin' out loud, it's entertainment (or supposed to be). Allow them some poetic (or ballistic, in this case) license. The fact that we can see the inconsistencies (for lack of another term) just adds to the entertainment value, something to savor after the fact.
 
While we're nit-picking-

Wouldn't a 9mm loaded with black powder be SIGNIFICANTLY underpowered?

Anyone care to figure out that math?
Click to expand...
No math is needed. Just look at .38spl. It's long case length was originally for black powder. Those older cartridges needed the longer case length for greater powder capacity, and even then those were only pushing their bullets around 700fps.

A black powder 9mm would be lucky to match a pellet gun if I had to guess :)
 
It's TV. It doesn't have to be accurate in order to be entertaining.

That said...There does seem to be a lot of "Read between the Lines" subtle messages appealing to the knee-jerk reaction set, so they'll support ever-tightening legislation against this monstrous, destructive ordnance that is readily available to everybody who wants to go out and kill cops.

:rolleyes:
 
Seems to me that the resident gun expert on the show, Callie, also referred to a gun's magazine as a clip at least a couple of times. You don't habve to be an expert to catch that one, either.
 
1911Tuner said:
That said...There does seem to be a lot of "Read between the Lines" subtle messages appealing to the knee-jerk reaction set, so they'll support ever-tightening legislation against this monstrous, destructive ordnance that is readily available to everybody who wants to go out and kill cops.
Click to expand...

It is indeed sickening whenever I see somebody pointing to a work of fiction as "evidence" supporting their crusade du jour.

I really have to wonder whether they actually believe the BS, or whether they are merely using a compelling story to motivate the unthinking masses emotionally.
 
I also think it's interesting that (sorry, this is anecdotal) juries are less likely to convict these days without DNA evidence, or other CSI style proof.

I'll have to find that article...
 
*The bad guy was shooting with a semiautomatic pistol from 50-100 yards, and hitting his target.
Click to expand...
Why couldn't he hit from that distance? Inspector Erskine hit targets at least that far with a snubnose revolver, and then only to wound. :p

Now, the black powder 9mm is a different story. You can't put enough black powder in the little case to blow your nose, let alone cycle a pistol action.

I agree that the subtle editorializing is worse, overall, than the errors.
 
At least this isn't as bad as War.

I died laughing when it was going into one of the scenes depicting the hitman as a hardened killer, as it shows him loading his semi-auto pistol up with what looks like black painted 17 HMR.
 
The one side of me thinks it's "entertainment" (though CSI:Miami stopped entertaining a few seasons ago). The otherside bristles when I realize that a good portion of this nation's population gets its firearms knowledge from programs of this ilk.
 
I watched CSI exactly twice. This show has always been and continues to be the stupidest show that has EVER been on TV. I won't waste another second on it.
 
For that matter, were there ever any automatic black powder firearms? (The Gatling gun is not truly automatic fire.) I am sure some designs had been worked out on paper or even prototypes built, but it would take smokeless powder to make them practical.
 
Unfortunately, I saw some of this episode as well. One thing I liked that hasn't been mentioned is how the round that rolled off the table and discharged when it hit the floor reacted. The bullet shot straight up into the ceiling as if it were fired out of the barrel. This seems a little far fetched. Am I wrong?

Sure, shows like this are entertainment, but it bothers me that this is where much of the populace obtains their firearms "knowledge".
 
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