CSPAN thread for Monday 03/01/04

[Nightfall]

Jeez, what the heck is going on? Seems like half of them are wheelin' 'n' dealin', and half are out to dinner or something. We're in the middle of a roll call vote and they act like it's a quorum call.

 

[Nightfall]

Roll Call Vote

The Bingaman Amendment to S. 1805, which would make (bad) changes to definitions in 1805, fails.

Yays: 28

Nays: 59

 

[killermarmot]

well bingaman got crushed

 

[TheOtherOne]

Yeas: 28
Nays: 59

Bingaman Failed!

edit: (dang, someone beat me to it! )

 

[Andrew Rothman]

The usual suspects (Feinstein, Schumer, Clinton, Kennedy) will attempt to attach an AWB renewal amendment to EVERY bill that hits the floor. We're not safe from renewal unitl September 14; we're NEVER safe from a new ban.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

If there are enough votes to attach the AWB, than the Demos will vote to pass 1805.

Actually watch the vote, I bet 90% of the people who vote to attach the AWB renewal to the bill also vote to kill the bill, even with an AWB renewal amendment - they'll do that because Dodd was right when he said that this is going to go down the hall to the House and they are going to strip out all the amendments they don't like.

The joint product will come up for a vote in the House (where it has already passed) and again in the Senate for a straight up/down vote with no shenanigans. Since the clean version of this bill had 54 co-sponsors - it will pass...

58-29 Bingaman bill goes down - moving on to other business, don't know if that is for the rest of tonight or just a small bit though.

 

[killermarmot]

we're only safe from a new ban if it is constitutionaly banned and god knows how soon that will even be considered.

 

[sumpnz]

I'll second geekwitha.45's sentiment.

I do believe that if we keep the AWB renewal from be being attached to S.1805 we may be able to keep it from being renewed at all. Without S.1805 it will be very hard to get the political clout needed to pass that renewal. If they can't do it now, the anti's know they can't do it at all, hence the need to make sure the renewal is still-born.

 

[killermarmot]

and tehy're done for the day. tomroow is AWB, "gun show loophole" and one other i missed.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Starting at 9:30am tomorrow, in order:

McCain - Gunshow,
Feinstein - AWB
Hatch - DC gun ban

11:35 will be stacked series of votes culminating in a final vote on bill.

Looks like they are adjourning for tonight on S.1805...but still scrambling for time to talk...

 

[killermarmot]

this is like used car salesmen trying to sell a car with no engine

 

[TheOtherOne]

Do I have this right?

S.1805 currently has the following amendments:

-Lawsuits from the D.C. Sniper victims are kosher
-Gun locks have to be sold with new guns
-Hurt LEO's can still sue those who arm the person that shot them

Tomorrow morning at 11:30 they vote on the AWB extension amendment and the Gunshow "loophole" amendment and then they vote on whether or not to pass S.1805?

 

[Moparmike]

LEO's can only sue if their case meets requirements of S.1805.

 

[Nightfall]

Warner just put into the record groups supporting his amdt, which will not be voted on. Would have had something to do with giving medical companies the same as 1805 does to gun mfgs. Thinks this is far more important than this gun maker bill.

 

[Frohickey]

I take it Shall-issue CCW reciprocity did not pass?

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Warner withdrawing his amendment (to give medical profession same protections as gun manufacturers) because he doesn't have the votes or time under procedure... OK, won't withdraw but it will expire under the agreement with no vote.

Do I have this right?

S.1805 currently has the following amendments:

-Lawsuits from the D.C. Sniper victims are kosher

Only if they meet the provisions of S.1805

-Gun locks have to be sold with new guns

Yes - and people who use some type of secure storage are immune from civil liability

-Hurt LEO's can still sue those who arm the person that shot them

Only if they meet the provisions of S.1805

Tomorrow morning at 11:30 they vote on the AWB extension amendment and the Gunshow "loophole" amendment and then they vote on whether or not to pass S.1805?

Yes, they will also vote on repealing the DC gun ban at that time. Debate will happen all day and then all the votes will be stacked on top of each other starting with the first vote at 11:35am.

 

[killermarmot]

I missed the gun lock ammendment to 1805 does that mean EVERY gun or only guns without integral locking units or those that include locks such as handguns that come with a lock and remington rifles that lock witha key are those exempt or do you have to buy a lock anyway.

 

[Kodiak AK]

TheOtherOne
No
Yes
Sorta

 

[Brian Dale]

It's March 1st; all eyes are on the election. Presidential candidates, a third of the Senate and all of the House are watching this bill and keeping an eye on constituent feedback. Their objective is to be re-elected this November; most will frame their public positions on guns to reflect whatever they expect will serve that objective. Democrats have largely steered clear of gun issues over the past winter, right up until this debate. If they lose an AWB extension, they'll be shy of the issue until after the election.

Mpayne, I agree that

The usual suspects (Feinstein, Schumer, Clinton, Kennedy) will attempt to attach an AWB renewal amendment to EVERY bill that hits the floor. We're not safe from renewal unitl September 14; we're NEVER safe from a new ban.

—but this summer, those amendments won't succeed if we win now.

 

[kingfisher]

STARFURYZETA

"WTH is Daschle up to?"

He's up for election in Nov. I think he has to mind his Ps and Qs if he wants to bilk the good folks in So. Dak. for six more years.

 

[mp40]

That's why no matter what happens, please voice your opinion to your elected rep's... Tell them what you think...... and if they happen to have stuck by thier guns.... TELL THEM THANKS

 

[Nightfall]

Levin: It's been stated that we must insist the law is clear. My amdt would make it very clear if the defendant's own gross negligence is the cause of injury. Craig has said others should not be liable for others actions. My admt says people should be responsible for their OWN gross negligence. One of the cases involving Bull's Eye... we had a situation where a gun dealer was negligent, and over and over there were losses. The DC shooters got one of those guns, which would not have happened but for that negligence. It's the reckless behavior of the dealer that is the issue. It was ruled but for their recklessness, the killing would not have occurred. My admt makes clear that reckless or grossly negligent conduct on part of the defendant which is cause for injury is grounds for suit. It might be argued that 1805 provides for this, but what happens if you're not breaking the law, but still reckless, such as not securing a weapon for sale? Most negligence is not based of a law, but on a standard.

 

[killermarmot]

talking about AWB again

 

[BowStreetRunner]

schumer is talking about how the AWB ban worked......he said the bill has been effective....the % of assault weapons used in all gun crimes has gone down...he says that 3.5% of crime guns before the ban were assault weapons and now it is 1%

 

[Brian Dale]

{Levin:}

Most negligence is not based of a law, but on a standard.

Mr. Levin, are you now proposing to write laws that define ALL forms of negligence? You're already asserting negligence where none exists. Don't be too startled if I don't trust you—ever.