rayatphonix
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Scotty, why does it make more sense? Rifle weights are the same for both cartridges, at least in the American model.
CZ finally offers the 527 in 6.5 Grendel
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Modified magazines will alow longer coals by goimg to single stack and having the base of the rounds sit back into the mag guide slot at the back of the mag well. There maybe other factory or modded variants but those are all I remembered right now. Also from what i remember seeing Olympic does away with the slot on there recievers allowing mags to be longer over all but still fit the basic platform.
Im sure 1stmarine will have more/better info.
Ive modded my 10rnd Grendel mag by cutting out the front so 5-7rounds can be loaded to 2.34ish
My 6x47 is on a short action, none of my loads would fit in an AR double stack mag.
rayatphonix
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If any of you have a picture it would be great. I think I've seen a picture of a modified mag but I didn't pay close enough attention.
Gtscotty
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To be fair, a Ruger American in .243 is cheaper and meets most of those requirements, except ammo cost, which the Grendel doesn't really meet anyway. There is a cheap Grendel option in the steel cased 100gr Wolf, but reviews seem to indicate that it is usually a 3 MOA prospect. I would submit that using an ammo with that level of accuracy, nullifies any ballistic advantage over the .223 at the specified 200-300 yds. So if you want to use cheap ammo, you might as well be shooting a .223 ( even cheap 5.56), on the other hand if you're buying the better more expensive ammo and can handle a bit more recoil you might as well be shooting a .243.
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Gtscotty
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I wasn't referring to weight in that sentence, but instead the overall value proposition for me of a 24" barreled bolt gun in 6.5 Grendel. For me the 527 in 6.5 G would basically be a range toy. I have better rifles/chamberings for hunting, and better rifles/chamberings for longer range target shooting, all of which are well within my recoil tolerance. For me the 527 in 6.5 G would basically be a 300 yd and less range toy. It's performance deficit to the 6.5 CM and .308's I already have would make it more interesting at those ranges, but the same is true of a .223, and the .223 would be cheaper to reload. That's just how it stacks out for me, interesting but not worth parting with cash for. Others should do as they wish.
jmorris
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The arguments here are interesting and we all know companies don't wish to create junk products that don't sell. So the next question would be "why" are folks (like CZ) picking the 6.5G over other "better" rounds for a new release?
And yes I understand that there is more to selling something than it being a ballistic marvel or we wouldn't have all the 300 blk threads.
And yes I understand that there is more to selling something than it being a ballistic marvel or we wouldn't have all the 300 blk threads.
js8588
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243 ammo costs more, recoils significantly more and usually has poorer SD.
The steelcase Grendel ammo may not be the world's most accurate, but it's good practice and easy on the shoulder. No such equivalent in 243.*
*I'm not an opponent of 243. I prefer 25-06 for that niche, but it's a fine cartridge.
rayatphonix
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Scotty, well explained. I get your viewpoint. The areas I hunt seldom present the opportunity to shoot over 150 or 200 yards. Those distances work well for the Grendel. When I have the opportunity to hunt over longer distances I'll choose a different rifle.
Gtscotty
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Buying decent ammo for both, the .243 is a bit more expensive.
I wouldn't say .243 recoils significantly more, for a 100gr bullet at 3000 fps, in a 7.5 lb rifle, JMB predicts 8.94 ft/lb free recoil. A 123gr bullet at 2,600 fps out of the same rifle delivers 7.89 ft/lb .... Basically 1 ft/lb difference, it's hard to figure out where that difference would be noticed, much less make any difference.
As for SD, a 100gr .243 bullet has an SD of .242 vs .252 for a 123 gr .264 bullet. Ever so higher, but so what? How much SD is needed to penetrate a piece of paper? A deer? SD tells you one metric of a bullet, but it is hardly the whole story for estimating performance.
Again, I don't see anything wrong with the Grendel, but it's just one of many cartridges that would work similarly well for a variety of uses. Another option, nothing more, nothing less.
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CoalTrain49
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I don't think it's odd that mfg's would be building bolt rifles for a cartridge that was designed for an AR or an AK. I'm not understanding why anyone would declare the Grendel useless and undesirable unless they are going to make the same statement about 7.62x39 or 300 BLK. I wonder how popular the .223 would be right now as varmint cartridge if the M16 hadn't come along? Probably about as popular as the 243 is with deer hunters. I wonder how popular the .308 would be if the M-14 hadn't come along? A cartridges success depends on a lot of things. Obviously the Grendel isn't the best at everything but neither is the 7.62x39. It works in both the AK and bolt guns pretty well though. Millions of rounds of the stuff is fired every year all over the world.
There has been a lot written about the Grendel, most of it I haven't read. But what I have read is it works in both the AR and bolt guns. There are at least 3 companies building uppers, several building bolt guns and about four building ammo right now.
The future obviously isn't as a bolt rifle cartridge because it wasn't designed as such. But neither was the 7.62x39. Maybe someone wants a cartridge that runs in both an AR and a bolt gun. What a novel concept.
There has been a lot written about the Grendel, most of it I haven't read. But what I have read is it works in both the AR and bolt guns. There are at least 3 companies building uppers, several building bolt guns and about four building ammo right now.
The future obviously isn't as a bolt rifle cartridge because it wasn't designed as such. But neither was the 7.62x39. Maybe someone wants a cartridge that runs in both an AR and a bolt gun. What a novel concept.
Newtosavage
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From my own experience, I'd rather shoot my .308 or 7x57 than a .243. Not sure what it is about them, but the kick is disproportionate to their size it seems.
This isnt mine i snagged it from the web.
if your interested in the one for the grendel i can grab a picture of that later
1stmarine
Member
you don't have to but you need special equipment.
I understand some rifles and magazines are going to have those limitations but if one is buying a new rifle and considering a new round one
has options, right?
- In the bolt action there are commercial magazine solutions that give you 2.55 for 223 and related cartriges. I think AI from MDT gives you 2.55 max.
- For the AR you have VLD mags that give you 2.45 coal center-feed for 223 and related cartriges. These are hard to find or have a couple of them fabricated.
AR15 VLD magazine 2.450 COAL.
1stmarine
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yeah I posted that one years ago courtesy of sscoyote from long range hunting forum.
I can make more pictures of other designs I have.
1stmarine
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BTW... for those VLDs I used CFE and have to run it hot so your brass will not last as long as when running 223 type pressures.
Lake city is good for 5-6 reloads and virtually free at the range pickup. But I have a truck load of it so brass life is not my worry in this case.
I guess what I am trying to say you design your system around a bullet or couple of bullets for that purpose.
Everything starts and ends with a bullet, hopefully a good one. The rest is just the means to delivering that mail.
Lake city is good for 5-6 reloads and virtually free at the range pickup. But I have a truck load of it so brass life is not my worry in this case.
I guess what I am trying to say you design your system around a bullet or couple of bullets for that purpose.
Everything starts and ends with a bullet, hopefully a good one. The rest is just the means to delivering that mail.
Thanks im not actually sure where mine went lol haven't looked for it after we got back from Molokai.
Poorer sd than what?
My guess would be that it fits into the 527 platform and it will use the same bolt as the 39. Add a Grendel barrel to the mix and you have another option to sell.
Also, maybe there is more of a demand overseas for it than there is here.
CoalTrain49
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Versatility.......
rayatphonix
Member
Thanks for the pics and info on the VLD magazines. I'll look into that as It would be a big help with some of the bullets I use.
I want to like the 6.8 and/or the grendel in the ar platform. My current AR calibers are 762 39, 308 300bo, 5.56, 458 socom. Always seems to be lots of good points made about some of these calibers and then I look at the ballistic tables and the velocities attained and I am underwhelmed. I don't think there's enough room in the AR mags to get what I would like.
1stmarine
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You mentioned a lot of calibers. Some very potent and some rather mild.
What is exactly you are looking for? I have been shooting those and a few others and perhaps I can help you decide.
Not sure if the room you mention is round count or COAL since you also mentioned the 308.
Ar-10 .260 rem if that don't get it done, Nemo .300 magnum.
Did each rifle weigh the same? All of them shooting 100 gr bullets will have almost equal recoil if weight and lop are similar but only one has an appropriate SD for deer at 100 gr......that really is a fit/weight issue. The Grendel in a long tube will have less felt recoil than a 16-18" tube just because of extra weight alone.
The 788 18" pencil barrel .243 (or any other cartridge) has more blast and recoil than a heavy contour 20" 770 plastic toy of same cartridge.
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