CZ ....the finest 9mm known to man

[doubleclaw]

Hello, all! I'm new here, and I just HAD to put my .02 cents in about 9mm pistols. Everybody here has a preference one way or another, and every one of the pistols mentioned so far are great guns, so here's my contribution to the thread: I love my Beretta 92FS Inox. It's never jammed in the six years i've had it, it will digest any kind of ammo I choose to put in it, it's very ergonomic(for me, anyway), it's dead sexy and stylish(kinda like the Italian suit of the gun world, y'know?), well-made with excellent fit and finish, accurate and just plain neat-o.

 

[albanian]

Things that make the statement: "CZ ....the finest 9mm known to man" false.

1. The DA trigger is way too long for many shooter's fingers.

2. The SA trigger is not even average, I have seen better triggers on guns costs much less so CZ is doing something wrong.

3. The black plastic coating on many CZ-75s is cheap and ugly.

4. The insides look like they were machined by drunk monkeys. Compared to a SIG or a Beretta, the insides look crude.

5. They are quite heavy for a 9mm.

Don't get me wrong, they are good guns and great deals but if they were as good as SIG and Beretta, they would cost as much as SIG and Beretta. SIG and Beretta make better guns. You might not like the ergos of those guns as much but they are better.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Re:

DA Trigger is way too long for some hands. Very true.

SA Trigger is not even average. That has not been my experience with a bunch of them.

The black plastic coating on many CZ-75s is cheap and ugly. I don't think its BEAUTIFUL, but its OK. And its very, very durable. And far less subject to minor scratching than a blued finish. The SIG and GLOCK finishes are practical, too, but not really pretty. Deep scratches are a problem for the Polycoat finish -- but if you scratch it badly enough to deep mar the polycoat, imagine what it would have done to a nice blued finish.

The insides look like they were machined by drunk monkeys. Compared to a SIG or a Beretta, the insides look crude. Not as pretty as SIGS or Beretta, it is true, but not as bad as your characterization. And if it made them shoot worse, I'd give a damn. (You been reading to much "Gun Test Magazine?" They make a fetish out of machining marks inside the slide.)

They are quite heavy for a 9mm. Depends entirely on the model. Some have alloy frames and aren't that heavy. Some have steel frames, which makes them feel like a Beretta. Some folks like the extra weight, as it makes recoil more manageable. (That's one of the pluses of the CZ-97B. And THAT gun's polycoat finish is very, very attractive.)

I like them. I also like SIGs, but shoot the CZ Better. I prefer CZs to Berettas. (I have yet to meet a Beretta trigger I really liked -- unless someone spent a fortune on a trigger job for that gun.)

 

[CZF]

Some folks do think that the CZ75 of old is the finest Combat 9mm.
Others adore the 75B and other CZ models.

I don't know anyone who actually carries a SIG P-210, but plenty of
guys who carry PCRs and other CZs on a daily basis.

The 75SA actually had better accuracy in HANDGUNS testing than the
new model P-210.

As for not being able to carry a 9mm for duty. Have you considered
the .40 caliber CZs? Yes, we need you on our team!

CZimply The Best!

 

[tomkatz]

IMO the sig guns have the worst finish I have ever seen on a gun in that pricerange. A friend just got his 239 back from Robar, he had it done because his stainless gun was all blotchy and he had never abused it. I don't take any better care of my czs than he does his sigs and mine look new, his look, well, lets just say not new. I like sigs alot, I have owned them, but finishes are not their strongsuit. Again, just my opinion.
As to triggers, what comparable gun that costs less than a cz has a better trigger? I ask because I don't really think there are comparable guns that cost less........tom

 

[George Hill]

Doubleclaw - Welcome to the family. Your Beretta 92 is indeed an excellent choice.
You will fit in just fine around here.

 

[orangeninja]

Good talk

I thought I would kind of get a handle on the things a bit...."finest?" Now you would have to define that. Lets see....King Saul had a wonderful suit of armor that he tried to get David to wear. Probably one of the finest ever crafted by man. It was not so for David however as it was too big. In fact, courage, faith and the knowledge and skill with his chosen weapon made the leather sling and a rock the "finest" weapon for him.

I am very good with a CZ...and though I MIGHT be able to shoot a 210 Sig better, the idea of selling my truck to buy one just might discourage me from ever actually carrying all day. Thus it was not built for me. The mere fact that CZ is getting compaired to HK and the greatest Sig has to offer should get someone out there to take note....as a CZ can be readily had for less than 500 big ones....the others? Good luck. I guess the CZ would have to settle for just being the "best value" instead.

Great discussion though....Frenchy....glad to see people have a good sense of humor here, I respect that.

 

[PCRCCW]

A small reply................

1. The DA trigger is way too long for many shooter's fingers.
True.......some shooters Id say.

2. The SA trigger is not even average, I have seen better triggers on guns costs much less so CZ is doing something wrong.
Very few guns fit this criteria..more CZ's than not have excellent SA triggers. Ive had 14 of them, I know.

3. The black plastic coating on many CZ-75s is cheap and ugly.
Note even! Its a hell of alot tougher than any blue gun Ive had and many other finishes also.

4. The insides look like they were machined by drunk monkeys. Compared to a SIG or a Beretta, the insides look crude.
You need to get out more. Look at the inside of a PCR/PO1/CZ40 frame...it will show you what a Sig looks like on a good day.

5. They are quite heavy for a 9mm.
Funny, my PCR with 15 rnds of corbon is still around 31-32 oz. Given the 75's are a stout gun at 32 oz ...but not even compared to a 39oz 1911, thats the empty weight for both guns.

I guess all opinions are welcome.....I just dont have to agree with them!


Shoot well.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

I'm reasonably convinced that either 1. i'm way too picky on what fits my hand or 2. everyone else has sixteen foot tentacles for fingers.


even in single action, the CZ's i've handled have a pretty humongous LOP, and they're pert near twice as wide as my 1911, it feels like.

 

[jdkelly]

" I like them. I also like SIGs, but shoot the CZ Better. I prefer CZs to Berettas. (I have yet to meet a Beretta trigger I really liked -- unless someone spent a fortune on a trigger job for that gun.)"


Although the CZ might not be "the" finest 9mm handgun, I think Mr. Sherrill, above, and CZF below sum it up well.


"Some folks do think that the CZ75 of old is the finest Combat 9mm."



Respectfully,

jdkelly

 

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Isn't this why they make chocolate, vanilla and strawberry?

I love my BHP and P229, but I love them for different reasons. Same for 1911's and CZ's. I love my kids and dogs equally, but for different reasons, too.

Regards,
Rabbit.

 

[robctwo]

I like my CZ75BD a lot. I shoot it with the Kadet Kit on it more than the 9mm. I have a BHP, Glock 17&34 and Sig 226 Sport Stock. The Sig is a step above the others, and cost $1,200, plus $200 for 4 15 round mags. The Cz cost $369 plus $160 for 4 15 round mags. It shoots as good as the BHP, $651 plus four South African mags for not remembered price, and the Glocks, aroud $500 each plus my oldest child for one high cap mag. The CZ is easlily the equal of the BHP & Glocks. It's different, but they are all different.

I carry the P0-1 in the fanny pack for personal protection all the times. I don't shoot it as well for groups at 25 yds, but I like the size & weight for carry and it is very accurate out to 15-20 yds.

I dressed the 75 & P0-1 up with Hakans. Really cool.

I just went nuts and bought a bunch of 9mm guns over the past two years and I'm loving it.

 

[SirPorl]

Excellent opinion piece

I can say that I love my CZs each and everyone. For me personally, they just point well for me and are just ergonomically about perfect for my hands. They shoot great too. All in all, a very good choice, but then again so are the Glocks, Sigs, HK and other more well known firearms. Like what you like and keep on shooting

 

[Dobe]

I've enjoyed my CZ 75 SA, but I too am not impressed with the trigger. It is long. You can watch the hammer move back as you pull the trigger. It is an accurate 9mm, especially for the price. I bought the CZ for the same reason that many others did and still do --- the price.

I recently purchased a nice 9mm range gun. Its a Kimber SS Target II. Man, that is a fun gun to shoot. I enjoy shooting my new Kimber, but I'll still keep my CZ.

 

[alwims]

I think it's really cool that the CZ is being compared to all 'high end' pistols and not middle of the road, (pricewise), pistols that they are. CZ & Witness for me!

 

[Sven]

CZ 75B is solid and a great value. Heavy and somewhat thick. I find it more fun to shoot than the Glock 17, esp. with the 22 conversion kit.

I do wish mine was slightly better fit, but then again I'm spoiled by a hand-fit 1911s.

On second thought, that looseness probably translates to battlefield reliability.

-s

 

[Berg01]

I have a Sig P228 9mm and a CZ 75B in .40S&W; when I first got the CZ, I wasn't sure I would like it, and for a while I thought that I should have spent the extra money for a Sig P226 in .40. For a "heavy' gun, it balances well and fits my hand like a glove, so it doesn't feel heavy. Accuracy is excellent, and if I lay off the crappy (.40S&W) Value Pack ammo, reliability is very good.

But if I had to give up one of the two (and I don't, so I'm not), the Sig would be the keeper, since it just works better for me.

 

[Russ]

I got an 85 Combat a couple of years ago and I love it. Fit and finish is every bit as good as my 1980's BHP. Most gun shops around here don't carry them. I had to order mine and it was perfect. To me, they are the best value going. I like steel guns. Yes they are heavy but I don't carry it so its not a problem. They fit the bill for me. Berettas 92/96's feel like bricks in my hand. I know they are very nice guns but for me the CZ is a better choice.

 

[albanian]

"2. The SA trigger is not even average, I have seen better triggers on guns costs much less so CZ is doing something wrong.
Very few guns fit this criteria..more CZ's than not have excellent SA triggers. Ive had 14 of them, I know.

3. The black plastic coating on many CZ-75s is cheap and ugly.
Note even! Its a hell of alot tougher than any blue gun Ive had and many other finishes also.

4. The insides look like they were machined by drunk monkeys. Compared to a SIG or a Beretta, the insides look crude.
You need to get out more. Look at the inside of a PCR/PO1/CZ40 frame...it will show you what a Sig looks like on a good day.

5. They are quite heavy for a 9mm.
Funny, my PCR with 15 rnds of corbon is still around 31-32 oz. Given the 75's are a stout gun at 32 oz ...but not even compared to a 39oz 1911, thats the empty weight for both guns."

This is in response to the above response.

1. The CZ SA trigger on the CZ-75 and CZ-40 models is quite poor by anyone's standards. If you find the trigger to be wonderful, I know your level of knowledge. It varies from average to far below average and if that is O.K. with you, that is fine but I know better. There are many guns that come with better SA triggers than CZ.

2. I didn't say the coating wasn't tough, I said it was cheap and ugly. It is cheap, that is why they put it on. In my opinion it is ugly but that is not really a big deal.

3. "You need to get out more. Look at the inside of a PCR/PO1/CZ40 frame...it will show you what a Sig looks like on a good day." I had a CZ-40B and a SIG 220 and there is simply no comparison. BY you saying this, I think you loose a lot of credibility. It is clear you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about in this matter.

4. When I said they were heavy for a 9mm, I was talking about the CZ-75. I should have pointed that out but as this is the most popular model, I used the name CZ to mean the CZ-75 even though they make a lot of 9mms.

I am not a CZ hater! I like them. I was just pointing out some of the flaws that keep them from being "The finest 9mm known to man". I do think they deserve to be compared to the Glocks, Rugers, S&Ws, and H&Ks. I don't think they are quite up to Beretta and SIG standards but they give them a run for their money.

 

[BHPshooter]

Round 2... *DING!*

 

[tiberius]

IMHO, the only thing seperating Ruger, S&W, Beretta, Sig, H&K, CZ, Glock, BHP double stack 9mm pistols is personal preference. I like the CZ 75's ergonomics and manual of arms.

My CZ-75B has a superior SA trigger when compared to my Sig 225. This is a fact, but I make no claims in regards to other Sigs and CZ's.

 

[tomkatz]

yes indeed round two it seems......

"2. The SA trigger is not even average, I have seen better triggers on guns costs much less so CZ is doing something wrong.

I will ask again, what guns are these that cost less than cz and have these great triggers. Not trying to start anything here I want to know, I may want to buy one, it must be something I have never seen or heard about.....tom

 

[AnklePocket]

My PCR is sitting in the shop right now waiting for "zhe papers". I'll let you know how good it is once it's set free.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

IMHO, the only thing seperating Ruger, S&W, Beretta, Sig, H&K, CZ, Glock, BHP double stack 9mm pistols is personal preference.

if you dropped the ruger from that list (because it's not in the same ballpark as the others) and the BHP (because it's not a DA and is unfairly better than the others), then your statement makes sense.

 

[tiberius]

OK Andrew, I'm open to opinions. Why is the Ruger OBJECTIVELY "not in the same ballpark as the others" ?

I personally don't like them because they tend to be large for caliber and are aesthetically unpleasing, but these are SUBJECTIVE evaluations. There are many other pistols on my list that I have SUBJECTIVE bias against, but objectively I stand by my statement.