Dagnabit I want a scout rifle, and it's all your fault!

[grampajack]

You should get over this obsession with stripper clips. They are not the sole reason for moving the scope forward nor even one of the main reasons. The main reasons for the forward mounted scope are fast sight acquisition and the ability to grasp the rifle in one hand at the balance point. The ability to use stripper clips is more of a beneficial side effect, if it's important to you.

You might want to consider what Jeff Cooper had to say on the subject:

A correspondent writes in to ask why I do not make a point of strip−loading a bolt−action rifle. As I see it, the stripper clip was a military device enabling the shooter to recharge a conventional box magazine with one stroke of the hand. This was usually coupled with a bolt stop which prevented closing the bolt on an empty chamber. Thus in a hot emergency, the soldier fired until he could not close the bolt, which told him that it was time for him to strip in another five rounds. This was doubtless a good idea in a Rorke's Drift situation in which a rifleman might be called upon to repel boarders armed with edged weapons. It is something of a nuisance under more normal situations in which it is desirable to top off a magazine which has one or more rounds left in it. The detachable box magazine is a more useful device under such circumstances.
Jeff Cooper's Commentaries Volume Nine, page 9

If you are sincere about building a Scout rifle, I'd suggest some background reading first. Here are some useful links:

http://www.steyrscout.org/project.htm
http://scoutriflestudy.com/the-book/
http://www.molonlabe.net/Commentaries/

Then I would just be building a Remington 700 with detachable magazines, and there would be no reason whatsoever to mount the scope forward, and it would no longer be a scout rifle. I don't know who said putting the scope out there means faster target acquisition, but they were cracked. Or on crack...

Here's my opinion on the stripper clip issue:

Someone hunting in a place where they may be forced to employ their hunting rifle as a self defense weapon is going to want to feed the rifle much like you would with a defensive shotgun. So that would entail topping off with loose ammo from a bandoleer, and then reloading with stripper clips if the magazine runs dry. So a person might have loose shells held on the stock, along with a few stripper clips in their pocket.

What a hunter is NOT going to want to do is carry magazines. They're bulky and awkward in the pocket. Not to mention magazine changes don't make a whole lot of sense if all you have is four rounds. It makes much more sense to simply top off with loose rounds, like you would with a shotgun, or even a revolver for that matter. Like a shoot two load two kind of situation.

I don't know what Cooper was smoking, but the heart of the system is the stripper clips. That's the only thing that makes the concept relevant. Basically what we're talking about here is a sporterized version of a military bolt action rifle, except in my case I'm going to be more militarizing a sporting rifle.

In essence, taking a hunting rifle and putting military features on it to make it more suitable for self defense in open country. But it has the advantage of being quicker and lighter than a traditional military rifle, and if I'm building it a great deal more accurate as well.

 

[natman]

Then I would just be building a Remington 700 with detachable magazines, and there would be no reason whatsoever to mount the scope forward, and it would no longer be a scout rifle. I don't know who said putting the scope out there means faster target acquisition, but they were cracked. Or on crack...

That would be Jeff Cooper, me and just about anyone else who bases their opinion on actually having used a Scout rifle. YMMV

The scoutscope is indeed handy on a scout rifle, but the scout rifle is a conglomeration of characteristics of which its sighting system is just one. The principle virtues of the scout are compactness, light weight and handiness. The scoutscope is faster than a conventional glass in snapshooting, but I discover that a good many hunters go their entire career without ever having to attempt a snapshot.
Jeff Cooper's Commentaries Volume Five, page 15.

Basically what we're talking about here is a sporterized version of a military bolt action rifle, except in my case I'm going to be more militarizing a sporting rifle.

In essence, taking a hunting rifle and putting military features on it to make it more suitable for self defense in open country. But it has the advantage of being quicker and lighter than a traditional military rifle, and if I'm building it a great deal more accurate as well.

Well put. I look forward to seeing how your project turns out and how similar it ends up being to an ideal Scout.

 

[mokin]

I also want one for no reason other than to build it, so I have been looking at 7x57 mausers that are already sporterized, I may go that route for mine in a synthetic stock. Btw, somebody used to build a rear receiver sight with a stripper clip guide cut into it, if I can find more info i'll share.

Dagnabit! Now you've got me thinking about another one that (potentially) got away. A couple of years ago, I came across a sporterized Spanish Mauser with a cracked stock that looked good otherwise. Even though I've wanted one of those for a long lime, I passed it up do to not being original. The thought that it would've made a nice scout (fixer upper to keep in the truck) never crossed my mind.

 

[chicharrones]

I look forward to seeing how your project turns out and how similar it ends up being to an ideal Scout.

Same here. I've never seen a commercial rifle with those mil-surp type features added. It should make for a fantastic project gun.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

So are you planning on starting on a bare receiver, or buying a rifle and modifying it from there?

 

[grampajack]

So are you planning on starting on a bare receiver, or buying a rifle and modifying it from there?

Whichever is cheapest. I imagine I could pick up a used 700 with a shot out barrel and just use the action, stick a short chambered barrel in it and call it a day. The tricky part is going to be finding the info to make that stripper clip guide cut, not to mention the magazine cutoff, with the latter being the more difficult. I'm thinking I can just reverse engineer the dimensions of an M14 stripper clip guide.

 

[everydefense]

Get out our drill and grinder and take 2 pounds off. remake steel parts in titanium or aluminum.

 

[theotherwaldo]

Not being wild about an ultra-light .308 rifle - and having Bubba's old '94 Swedish Mauser on hand - I made my own version in 6.5x55. It does what I want. Sorry, Mr. Cooper.

 

[johnnydollar]

Nothing wrong with the 6.5 Swede in a handy little cavalry carbine. Have any pics you'd like to share?

 

[theotherwaldo]

Nothing wrong with the 6.5 Swede in a handy little cavalry carbine. Have any pics you'd like to share?

No - my camera and my current (Ubuntu-using) computer don't shake hands. Anyway, I'm in the middle of installing a new floor in my bedroom and the entire contents of my room are jammed against my gun safes.

 

[johnnydollar]

No problem. I saw a bubba-ed '94 at a gun show not long ago. It never occurred to me what a neat little scout rifle that thing would have made. Hmm....

 

[JO JO]

Local store has a savage 11 scout and a savage 10 fcm scout kinda been eyeballing them thanks to several scout threads in the last few weeks

 

[chicharrones]

Local store has a savage 11 scout and a savage 10 fcm scout kinda been eyeballing them thanks to several scout threads in the last few weeks

I do like the potential of the 10 fcm scout.

 

[MistWolf]

Well, the forward mounted scope, stripper clip guide and back up iron sights were suggestions. After looking at all the hoops that have to be jumped through to get all the options, my thoughts are it's much easier to build a rifle with a standard optic, no back up irons and no stripper clip guide. I find a conventionally mounted optic much faster for snap shots anyway. I can carry a bolt action rifle at the action with a conventionally mounted scope using two piece mounts. But a rifle carried that way is slow to mount, so I rarely carry one that way.

I cannot imagine anything a Scout Rifle with all the bells and whistles will do that a standard bolt action rifle cannot. If I were to build one today, I'd use an Argentine 1909 Mauser action with a 2 position wing safety that locked the bolt, a modern LPV, an AR style two point sling, a barrel length between 16 to 18 inches and an over the barrel suppressor. Caliber of choice would be 308 Winchester. It doesn't check all the boxes, but it would get the job done

 

[Mosin Bubba]

Well, the forward mounted scope, stripper clip guide and back up iron sights were suggestions. After looking at all the hoops that have to be jumped through to get all the options, my thoughts are it's much easier to build a rifle with a standard optic, no back up irons and no stripper clip guide.

But where's the fun in that?

 

[jamesjames]

Cold water time. The Scout rifle concept is a classic conflict between heart and head. The heart wants a unicorn, some as yet undiscovered rifle with a new handiness and utility that has somehow escaped rifle designers up to now. The head knows that rifle materials and scopes are better now than in the 1960s. The head also knows that a short barreled rifle is loud and sacrifices the power of the caliber in unburnt powder out the end. There are 7 lbs mountain rifles out there that will do this job and do it better than the scout concept.

But I want to make this work. I want to show how brilliant I am and prove all the nay-sayers wrong. I want to be a good son and please pappa Cooper. I want to prove the design is viable and I can perfect it.

For me, there's just too much emotional baggage and features that work at cross purposes in the Scout rifle concept.

 

[Sunray]

No it isn't. The whole concept was one of Cooper's more stupid ideas. A bolt action rifle at a time when nobody issued 'em to anybody but snipers. And a scope in the wrong place. Idiocy.

 

[JO JO]

One thing I do like is the iron sights, they are the only ones I seen at LGS ,
308 bolt action with irons , not sure if I will scope it , I like the peep sights on the savage scout rifles , but that's just me

 

[MistWolf]

But where's the fun in that?

Heh! But there is no fun in a dream rifle we never build and never get to shoot

 

[johnnydollar]

No it isn't. The whole concept was one of Cooper's more stupid ideas. A bolt action rifle at a time when nobody issued 'em to anybody but snipers. And a scope in the wrong place.

Cold water time. The Scout rifle concept is a classic conflict between heart and head. The heart wants a unicorn, some as yet undiscovered rifle with a new handiness and utility that has somehow escaped rifle designers up to now. The head knows that rifle materials and scopes are better now than in the 1960s. The head also knows that a short barreled rifle is loud and sacrifices the power of the caliber in unburnt powder out the end. There are 7 lbs mountain rifles out there that will do this job and do it better than the scout concept.

But I want to make this work. I want to show how brilliant I am and prove all the nay-sayers wrong. I want to be a good son and please pappa Cooper. I want to prove the design is viable and I can perfect it.

For me, there's just too much emotional baggage and features that work at cross purposes in the Scout rifle concept.

Idiocy.

This is a scout rifle thread. No one cares what you two think about the concept.

 

[chicharrones]

One thing I do like is the iron sights, they are the only ones I seen at LGS ,
308 bolt action with irons , not sure if I will scope it , I like the peep sights on the savage scout rifles , but that's just me

Iron sights. Yes indeed. I used my GSR for at least a year with just the sights. But, I was too close to 50 years old, so the scopes started to proliferate my collection.

 

[grampajack]

Well, the forward mounted scope, stripper clip guide and back up iron sights were suggestions. After looking at all the hoops that have to be jumped through to get all the options, my thoughts are it's much easier to build a rifle with a standard optic, no back up irons and no stripper clip guide. I find a conventionally mounted optic much faster for snap shots anyway. I can carry a bolt action rifle at the action with a conventionally mounted scope using two piece mounts. But a rifle carried that way is slow to mount, so I rarely carry one that way.

I cannot imagine anything a Scout Rifle with all the bells and whistles will do that a standard bolt action rifle cannot. If I were to build one today, I'd use an Argentine 1909 Mauser action with a 2 position wing safety that locked the bolt, a modern LPV, an AR style two point sling, a barrel length between 16 to 18 inches and an over the barrel suppressor. Caliber of choice would be 308 Winchester. It doesn't check all the boxes, but it would get the job done

You're trying to apply logic to something that is illogical by nature. It's going to be a toy, and as such, I want it in all of its glorious stupidity.

Cold water time. The Scout rifle concept is a classic conflict between heart and head. The heart wants a unicorn, some as yet undiscovered rifle with a new handiness and utility that has somehow escaped rifle designers up to now. The head knows that rifle materials and scopes are better now than in the 1960s. The head also knows that a short barreled rifle is loud and sacrifices the power of the caliber in unburnt powder out the end. There are 7 lbs mountain rifles out there that will do this job and do it better than the scout concept.

But I want to make this work. I want to show how brilliant I am and prove all the nay-sayers wrong. I want to be a good son and please pappa Cooper. I want to prove the design is viable and I can perfect it.

For me, there's just too much emotional baggage and features that work at cross purposes in the Scout rifle concept.

No it isn't. The whole concept was one of Cooper's more stupid ideas. A bolt action rifle at a time when nobody issued 'em to anybody but snipers. And a scope in the wrong place. Idiocy.

See post #1. I'm not here to debate the idea. I want suggestions on how to go about doing it, such as how one might install a magazine cutoff in a gun that wasn't designed for one.

 

[johnnydollar]

AFAIK, bolt guns with a magazine cut-off device were limited to the .30-40 Krag and the 1903 Springfield. Cooper liked the Krag action, but not its caliber, and the idea of a scout rifle with a magazine cut-off seems to have been forgotten.

 

[natman]

I want suggestions on how to go about doing it, such as how one might install a magazine cutoff in a gun that wasn't designed for one.

For factory rifles, you're going to be limited to the Krag or a Springfield, either of which could make a decent psuedo-scout. Another approach is the two detent detachable box magazine as used in the Steyr Scout. One detent keeps the magazine in the rifle, but too low for the bolt to strip a cartridge. Push the mag in a bit further and the other detent locks the magazine in the normal position.

 

[chicharrones]

For factory rifles, you're going to be limited to the Krag or a Springfield, either of which could make a decent psuedo-scout. Another approach is the two detent detachable box magazine as used in the Steyr Scout. One detent keeps the magazine in the rifle, but too low for the bolt to strip a cartridge. Push the mag in a bit further and the other detent locks the magazine in the normal position.

Good call on the Steyr version. Now to figure out how to stripper clip load a closed top receiver.