Working class scout rifle?

[RPRNY]

https://www.mossberg.com/product/ri...mvp-series-mvp-patrol-mvp-patrol-scoped/27731

Takes AR mags. Looks like retail prices in the $600 range. I think they got this one right.

 

[Glockula]

A savage hog hunter is one of the few new bolt rifles with iron sights that I have seen that is reasonably priced. I know the barrel is a little long for a scout rifle but it is an option

 

[Willie Sutton]

"Takes AR mags."


Utterly worthless as a Scout for the same reason the GSR is worthless as a Scout: It cannot be carried one handed at the point of balance.

Really... not every compact rifle is a Scout Rifle or even a wanna-be Scout.

Willie

.

 

[RPRNY]

Well then, I'd go back to the original scout rifle: 30-30 lever gun.

 

[Rick R]

"Takes AR mags."


Utterly worthless as a Scout for the same reason the GSR is worthless as a Scout: It cannot be carried one handed at the point of balance.

Really... not every compact rifle is a Scout Rifle or even a wanna-be Scout.

Willie

.

I've carried my GSR one handed for hours while walking up and down hill. Thumb over the action and fingers around the area in front of the magazine. I think either the steel or poly five shot magazines are better choices than the ten rounder but the little rifle carries so well I rarely sling it.

YMMV

 

[AK103K]

I had one of the early Savage Scout's when they first came out. They pretty much fit the bill. The only thing they lacked that I would have preferred, was a stripper slot.



They came with a set of usable irons, a B-Square Scout mount, and a removable mag. I put a Leupold Scout scope on it, and added the third swivel stud and a Ching Sling.

The forward mounted scope set up is very fast, easy and natural to shoot with. Snap shots are a breeze. The only downside to them is, they suffer the same thing peep sights suffer, low light coming in from behind over your shoulder. They also dont have the light gathering properties the other scopes tend to offer.

Mine always shot well, and I think Savage is often underrated and wrongly put down by some. You often hear complaints about their stocks, but Ive never had an issue with any Ive owned.

I shot this at 100 yards, prone off a bipod using 165 grain Nosler BT's over 4064. Thats a 20 round group shot over about half an hour.

 

[Palehorseman]

Here are a couple of pseudo scouts I have made up from milsurp rifles over the years and how I did it.

http://hstrial-rchambers.homestead.com/early.html

 

[cluttonfred]

Those are neat, Palehorseman, despite my opening line about not wanting to talk about Mosins. I imagine that the kick and muzzle flash from sporterized M-N is also quite impressive.

 

[Willie Sutton]

"I've carried my GSR one handed for hours while walking up and down hill. Thumb over the action and fingers around the area in front of the magazine."

Be interested to know where the one-finger balance point of your rifle is when loaded. And agreed about the lower capacity magazines.




"I had one of the early Savage Scout's when they first came out."

AK103K, that's a pretty rifle. Far closer to what we envisioned at the Scout Rifle Conferences than any of the monstrous "scout rifles" sold as such by Ruger. Well done, and having known the Colonel, I think he would have said the same thing.

To the others, build up anything configured like this, and you're good to go.


Willie

.

 

[cluttonfred]

Willie, do you (or anyone else) have the actual scout rifle conference proceedings that you could share?

Slightly off topic, but if going with a scout optic of some kind, what are the thoughts on non-magnifying (red dot) vs. fixed low-power magnification vs. variable low-power magnification?

Personally, I wish somebody would make a cheap, batteryless, day/night reflex sight, but somehow the fiber optic/tritium ones all all cost more than the basic rifle we've been talking about.

 

[perpster]

Far closer to what we envisioned at the Scout Rifle Conferences than any of the monstrous "scout rifles" sold as such by Ruger. Well done, and having known the Colonel, I think he would have said the same thing.

Willie, I hope you will do us the honor of imparting whatever information and opinions you can in this regard.

 

[AK103K]

Ive tried "Scouting" a number of guns, and not with a lot of success, or what I felt turned out successful.

I tried a couple of Winchester Trappers, and found adding all that junk on top, just took away from the guns natural handiness. I much prefer them with a simple Ashley/XO ghost ring on them, and an old K98 sling.

While the little lever guns are handy, I personally think they are a little fragile for hard use, slow to load, and limiting in what you load them with.

One Ive always wanted to try, and may try and make it a lay off project for next year, is one of the "straight bolt" Mausers in .308. I always found the straight bolts to be the quickest and easiest to work, and very handy to carry (you can actually open your grip and the rifle will hang off the back of your hand by the bolt handle). Plus, they have a stripper guide built in, and Im a big fan of stripper fed bolt guns.

Another couple Ive done that most wont consider a "scout", were AR's and AK's.

The AR's can actually work real close, as you can get a Ching sling on them, and these days, with the railed handguards, a true, forward mounted scope. At the time I was trying it, that was lacking.

I actually prefer the AK for this, even though the Ching sling isnt real feasible or even desirable. I tried both scope and red dot on them, and prefer the red dot over the scope (thing goes for the AR's as well). Its a lot more natural to shoot with, and allows you instant access to your irons if the dot should for some reason go down. The dot is plenty for the 300 yards I consider the max range of the AK's and AR's to be.

Not true Scout's, and I know the purists will scream, but I still think they can fit the bill as well, if your a little more open minded to the idea. If you stay fairly simple (which is really the way to go anyway), both can remain light weight and handy, and are both very shootable.

 

[AK103K]

Slightly off topic, but if going with a scout optic of some kind, what are the thoughts on non-magnifying (red dot) vs. fixed low-power magnification vs. variable low-power magnification?

I like the Aimpoints for this, and use them that way.

I also think if you could get something like one of the 1-4x AR type scopes that also have a red dot at the cross hairs with the extended eye relief of the scout scopes, that would be about perfect.

I have an old Leupold 1.5x5 on my one AR, and it works great, but its a traditional mount.

Personally, I wish somebody would make a cheap, batteryless, day/night reflex sight, but somehow the fiber optic/tritium ones all all cost more than the basic rifle we've been talking about.

Believe it or dont, the old Armson OEG's are still around and still for sale. Not that they are "cheap".

http://www.armsonusa.com/armsonoeg.html

These were the first red dot "experience" I had, and they do work, but compared to whats around now, are kind of lacking. They need "good" light or dark, and eyes adjusted to it for optimal use. In between can be tough sometimes. Something the red dots have solved.

One plus with having used them is, I learned you can use your Aimpoints with the front cover closed in the same manner, and with the same results, which gives you more options with the Aimpoints.

I know cost is often a factor, but in reality, what the optic costs, especially vs the cost of the gun, is irrelevant in the whole scheme of things. Its the "package" you end up with when your done thats the important part.

I still catch flack from people about putting a $500 Aimpoint on a $350 AK. They just dont seem to get that it works great, and its been a winning combo for about 15 years now. If I had back the money wasted early on, on cheap red dots, Id have a couple more Aimpoints.

Im always saying, only a rich man can afford to buy cheap stuff. In the long run, you really do get what you pay for. If you have to keep replacing"junk" and/or batteries, how is cheap, helping you out?

 

[ECVMatt]

I will throw my 2 Cents in...

I have a Ruger GSR and admittedly love it. Some of you may have read some of my write ups on it. It is without a doubt my most used centerfire rifle. I am a desert bum and usually take this one with me. I have a sling on my rifle and that is what I carry it with. I also don't have a problem carrying the rifle with one hand. The magazine acts like a stop for my index finger. Ruger also makes a 3 round magazine for a flush fit if it really bothers you.

Back to the OP, I would start with the Savage Hog Hunter and throw a RD on the front mount like you posted in your original post. That would give a just about everything you need and a decent price.

I wish Ruger would come out with a RAR with iron sights. I think a lot of folks would find them useful.

 

[natman]

"Cooper's main reasoning for the forward mounted scope was to facilitate faster loading milsups with stripper clips."

No.

No.

No.

:banghead::banghead:

+1. It's good to see that somebody knows the history of the Scout Rifle. Stripper clip loading was more or less a beneficial side effect. It most certainly was NOT the main reason for the forward mounted scope.

What I woud never do would be to buy the Ruger "Scout", which isn't a Scout by any stretch of the imagination.

Amen. It's not a bad rifle, it's just not a good Scout. If only Ruger had called it the "Truck Buddy" or "Tactical ThunderBolt" or something. The sad part is that Ruger has all the parts to make a pretty good off-the-shelf Scout, but now that they've pre-empted the name, they won't.

 

[Captcurt]

AK103K,

It is a shame that Savage dropped these little rifles. I have 2 of the 6 1/4# Sierras that are the same rifle without the scout mount. The 243 is a pleasure to shoot but the 300 WSM is awesome. It will hold sub-MOA all day. Not a lot of fun off of the bench but man will it shoot.

 

[AK103K]

I was under the impression they brought them back out a few years back with the AccuTrigger and without the removable mag. Have they dropped them again?

 

[paintballdude902]

why not get a marlin lever gun and add a scout mount and scope to it? bam 500 bucks including rifle, scope, mount

 

[greyling22]

I like the scout mount 30/30 idea as well. I had a scout scope on a 44mag marlin and it worked great. yes, you lose power as compared to a 308, but honestly, I'm not taking a 200yd+ shot with a 2.5x scope scope anyway. heck, I'm hard pressed to find 200+ of open space that is not a road in east tx. I have a 2-7x one mine right now, but you could drop a ncstar pistolero on a used 336, plus a scout mount and rear peep and be mostly in the game for $400 if you shopped it. this is not my gun. I pulled it off the internet, but it's a good example.

 

[Captcurt]

I was under the impression they brought them back out a few years back with the AccuTrigger and without the removable mag. Have they dropped them again?

I checked and you are right. Plus they chambered it for 7.62X39. There was one on Gun broker that had the scout mount and peep sight. I believe it was a Savage 10 FCM. I may have to have one of these. I have a bushel basket of ammo.

 

[35Remfan]

Ruger American Compact:Great poor man's scout

I've thought about the Ruger American Compact as the basis of a scout rifle. Mine would have ghost rings installed and a forward mounted scope with something close to a 1-4 power. Quick detachable rings so I could use the ghost rings if anything ever happened to the scope.

Not sure if I ever will go ahead with it. For accuracy sake it should be plenty accurate in 308 for reliable use out to 300 yards.

 

[35Remfan]

This is what I was thinking. 30-30 or 308 Marlin Express

 

[Rick R]

Be interested to know where the one-finger balance point of your rifle is when loaded. And agreed about the lower capacity magazines.
.

With a loaded five round poly magazine, no spacers, a Ching Sling and no muzzle devices except a thread protector the balance point is at the front edge of the magazine. Of course you don't carry it horizontally through the woods, it's muzzle down with the bulk of it's weight against my middle finger. The GSR is a bit over the Col's weight limit but as easy to carry all day as my Winchester M94 or Marlin Guide Gun.

Strip off the unnecessary stuff and the GSR's not a bad little carbine, that's all I really needed.

 

[chicharrones]

Strip off the unnecessary stuff and the GSR's not a bad little carbine, that's all I really needed.

Yep.

 

[BruceB]

Everyone has his own idea about what HIS Scout rifle will or should be.

For myself, I've been using rifles of all sorts for upwards of sixty years, and I DEFINITELY have my own ideas on the subject.

-The idea of the forward-mounted scope leaves me utterly cold. It's ill-balanced, ugly, and SLOWER in use than a low-powered receiver-mounted scope.... if the shooter knows how to use one. I mounted a Weaver K1.5 on my Mauser .404 Jeffrey for hunting BIG animals in heavy bush. With that scope, I could see THE MUZZLE in reasonable focus, sufficient to fire accurately at ZERO distance. The field of view was like a big picture window in a house!

On my own (left-handed) Ruger GSR the rail was removed less than a minute after I opened the box... and I don't know or care where it is now. The iron sight is zeroed for 150s at 200, and the receiver-mounted scope is zeroed for 250. The aperture sight is stored in a recess I created under the buttplate assembly just-in-case. A couple of minutes suffice to mount it.

Remember that in a hard-service rifle, a muzzle device like a brake or flash-hider also serves to protect the barrel crown from damage.

I prefer the three- and five-round magazines for carry, since a hand can be wrapped around the rifle. The ten-rounder goes along for the ride, in case a LOT of shooting has to be done. It also allows for rattle-free carry of the spare rounds.

I see no point in getting too involved in theprecise e details of Colonel Cooper's concept. I lose no sleep if the rifle is an inch or two longer, or a few ounces heavier. The IMPORTANT part, I think, was when he said the Scout rifle should be on the light and compact side, but particularly that it should be capable of doing any service-type job that a non-specialist rifleman would need.

My Ruger will do that.

-