Dangerous prank calls draw SWAT teams

[TCB in TN]

The police don't make the laws, they enforce the laws.
The POLITICIANS make the laws. Don't like the laws? Fine. There's laws I don't like.
But don't blame the policeman who's got you in the hammerlock and cuffing you -- blame the politician who passed the law that the policeman is enforcing.
The policeman isn't the one who's "scr@w@d" you; it's the politician who is the one who's _______ you ......

First of all Merry Christmas to all!

While the above may be true, it is also an incomplete truth. While LEO's don't make the laws, some, even many certainly skirt the edges of the law to make their job easier. How many recent stories have come to light with examples of officers who gave "incomplete" information or "misleading" information to a judge to get a rubber stamped warrent? How many of these incidents could have been avoided had the officers in question actually visited the residence to determine if the alleged activities seemed to be happening there?

If I get put into a hammerlock by an officer who lied on a warrent request, or by an officer who took bad info from a CI (criminal informant), or get shot by LEO's performing a home invasion because they didn't get the address right, well yes all of that is the fault of the politicians right?

You can say this is all Cop bashing if you want, but the fact is these actions are being brought to light all to regularly (but probably NOT as often as they should be), with what is all to often no repurcussions to the offending officers. Good cops are just that good cops, they don't do the above listed things, officers who do are NOT good cops and certainly need to be bashed, then sued, possibly arrested, and then NEVER allowed to have anything to do with LE ever again.

 

[BRASSM]

SWAT Teams have their place. If a bunch of gangbangers, or well armed robbers need to be dealt with, I don't want the local beat cop geting killed. I want SWAT to neutralize the threat. Whereas if Mrs. Smith is yelling at Mr. Smith because he burned the ham, they don't need their door knocked down. Sometime you need a social worker, sometime you need a jackbooted enforcer.
This is not a matter for the Police, this is a matter of making the punishment for the incorrect deployment of SWAT as a prank , so severe [pillory, public flogging...] only a fool would do it.

 

[Tommygunn]

If I get put into a hammerlock by an officer who lied on a warrent request, or by an officer who took bad info from a CI (criminal informant), or get shot by LEO's performing a home invasion because they didn't get the address right, well yes all of that is the fault of the politicians right?

You can say this is all Cop bashing if you want, but the fact is these actions are being brought to light all to regularly (but probably NOT as often as they should be), with what is all to often no repurcussions to the offending officers. Good cops are just that good cops, they don't do the above listed things, officers who do are NOT good cops and certainly need to be bashed, then sued, possibly arrested, and then NEVER allowed to have anything to do with LE ever again.

And all of which may be "police practices I do not agree with." If you think "bad info from a CI" or leaving stuff out to get a warrant or anything else you listed is new you're are not a good historian. Bad apples in a bunch, be it 2007 or 1927 or 1878 is par for the course.
Of course we need to fix these thing. I'd wager the policemen on this board such as "Sergeant Sabre" would agree that the few bad cops give all the good ones a black eye in public opinion.
I don't treally think it's "cop bashing" to point out a specfic known problem, I think it becomes "cop bashing" to apply the unusual bad behaviour to all police everywhere and believe it to be a "general principle.
" ... (B)ut the fact is these actions are being brought to light all to regularly (but probably NOT as often as they should be)." All well and good, you know; and keep one thing in mind too; the media never report the airplane flights that take off on time, fly errorless to their destination, and land on time, either. The newsmedia does not report things -go -right. They report the accidents, the crimes and the blunders. That is their job, after all.

 

[ilbob]

Is it too early for the "Jeff White SWAT Team Out of Control Checklist" ?

He is probably still eating his christmas dinner. Or maybe on patrol. Or taking a nap. All more important than replying to this post.

 

[ilbob]

Sometime you need a social worker, sometime you need a jackbooted enforcer.

Who decides if it is a social worker or a JB enforcer?

Do these guys actually wear jack boots?

 

[TCB in TN]

And all of which may be "police practices I do not agree with." If you think "bad info from a CI" or leaving stuff out to get a warrant or anything else you listed is new you're are not a good historian. Bad apples in a bunch, be it 2007 or 1927 or 1878 is par for the course.

I fully know the history of such actions, but its either better reported or a more common occurance. Further more the paramilitary units such as "swat" are so much more prevalent that when those action result in a problem then the likelihood of a major problem is just much greater.

Of course we need to fix these thing. I'd wager the policemen on this board such as "Sergeant Sabre" would agree that the few bad cops give all the good ones a black eye in public opinion.

You know we agree on this, most of the good LEO's I know are very frustrated with the image that the general public has of them.

I don't treally think it's "cop bashing" to point out a specfic known problem, I think it becomes "cop bashing" to apply the unusual bad behaviour to all police everywhere and believe it to be a "general principle.

Again is it really bashing to point out that the tendency to use "SWAT" teams for issues that is not necessary? U don't SWAT flies with a hand grenade, but SWAT teams seem to be pretty much used in just that manner.

" ... (B)ut the fact is these actions are being brought to light all to regularly (but probably NOT as often as they should be)." All well and good, you know; and keep one thing in mind too; the media never report the airplane flights that take off on time, fly errorless to their destination, and land on time, either. The newsmedia does not report things -go -right. They report the accidents, the crimes and the blunders. That is their job, after all.

U know I agree, much of the problem is with the media, were it not for the media blowing things out of proportion then SWAT teams would likely not be used nearly as often as they are.

But seriously, SWAT is NOT a tool that should be used either lightly or w/o doing the real police work needed to ensure that the General Public is safe not just from the bad guys, but in instances like this, from the Swat teams as well.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

"I fully know the history of such actions, "

really?! there are so few things i could claim to know fully.... i'm jealous of your skills.

if folks think cops are rougher/harder today than lets say 50 years ago they need to check their hats make sure the shiny side is out. thats so laughable as to be worthy of a snl skit

 

[Roswell 1847]

Well I'm a bit suprized by the anger directed at the SWAT teams in some of the posts seen here.
I've read of plenty of abuses by BATF and similar squads but for the most parts unwarranted killings by LEO are more likely to involve street cops and patrolmen rather than SWAT teams.
My Grandfather's brother was a Lawman during the depression and he was killed by hijackers that had the bulge on him, rifles and shotguns vs his service revolver. Many a Lawman died from being outgunned by the "Motorized Bandits" in those days.

A few years back a man in Knoxville was shot by a Swat Team member and a ruckuss was raised because to the people he was facing he didn't seem to be much of a threat, just a drunk with a rifle. To the SWAT Team member who'd come around the back of the house the situation seemed a lot more dire, he himself was in no danger but the man was holding highpowered rifle and it appeared that others were in danger so he took him out.
Personally I've seen far too many seemingly amiable drunks turn vicious in a split second without apparent cause to take many if any chances.

Some years before a gang of escaped convicts were cornered in the home of one escapees relatives. It wasn't even certain they were there till one shot and killed a deputy. The battle was pretty intense, all the escapees were hardcases and chose to die fighting.

SWAT teams are a necessity these days, like it or not.

If every beat cop were well armed , including a good patrol rifle , and had months of training in SWAT type proceedures, they'd still need weeks of intense training every year to stay sharp, and would have to know just about every other officer on the force and how they'd react in a firefight in order to avoid deadly errors.

BTW
I can remember a case in DC where a gang of home invaders raped and tortured several women and little girls for hours after two patrolmen sent to check out a 911 call originating from the house saw no movement or sign that anyone was there, they'd assumed it was a crank call.
The Thugs found the caller hiding in a closet and added her to the list of victims.
Thats about all I remember except that this case resulted in the Supreme Court decision that Officers couldn't be sued for damages that result from dereliction of the duty to protect the victim.

As for me I'd be much more concerned with having to live with the knowledge that I had not checked out a call throughly , despite not having a warrant or obvious signs of a crime in progress, than any concerns over litigation.

Well there are no easy one size fits all arguments when it comes to how far the police can or should go.

One thing is for sure, the prank callers were entirely at fault for the situation in the lead story.