DesertPunisher425
Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2008
- Messages
- 14
I'm posting a reply to Ravon's mention of the 1033 program and the article that misrepresented the extent of the program.
First, I'll give you a little break-down of the way things work. The 1033 program is a federal military surplus redistribution program; there is a large number of items that can be transferred from the military to virtually any other local, state or federal government department. There is a program administrator in every state... this is an active duty position withing that state's National Guard. Usually this position is within the Counterdrug Division; a program itself federally funded and executed by the state to support local, state and federal law enforcement in operations consisting of a narcotic nexus.
The 1033 Program distributes everything from older, military-obsolete night vision devices, binoculars, cots, tents, sleeping bags and uniforms to rifles, vehicles and helicopters. The program DOES NOT distribute battle tanks, assault helicopters, missiles, machine guns (in the military terminology, not the ATF's), explosives are anything that could be deemed more destructive than rifles. The decisively slanted article you referenced failed to mention that the M113A2 Tracked Armored Personnel Carriers which are transferred to LEA's do not come with any armament; they are nothing more than a box made of ballistic aluminum alloy with a drive-train and tracks (which the tracks are almost always replaced with rubber tracks to help ensure the roads are not damaged; not that the rubber track pads on the steel tracks do much damage as it is).
The helicopters they distribute are UH-1 (Huey) and OH-58A (Kiowa); The first is a Utility Helicopter capable of transporting a little under 4000lbs, 14 personnel or up to 6 stretchers when used in medevac role; the come without any weapons or armament. Do not confuse the UH-1 with the AH-1 Cobra gunship (which is only sold to other militaries) The second (OH-58A) is a light observation helicopter with a max take-off weight of 2,300lbs, a crew of two and additional seating for two additional personnel. These ARE NOT the Kiowa Warrior (OH-58D) version (which comes equipped with mini-guns and/or 2.75mm rocket pods). So, perhaps you feel that law enforcement shouldn't have the ability to respond to natural disasters with a helicopter capable of moving casualties, or respond to a prison break or lost child with a helicopter capable of aerial observation for several hours at minimum of cost... but most of the public support these initiatives.
And yes, that is exactly the roles those helicopters are used in; fugitive apprehension, cannabis eradication, area observation for warrants and response to natural disasters or medevac operations. How do I know this? Because I've spent nearly four years working in the Counterdrug Division (just the latest of my military assignments); I've worked with various different departments who are currently using surplus military vehicles and helicopters. Through special exceptions in our congressional mandate which set up the CD program I've worked in a great number of law enforcement activities outside of the narcotic nexus... from taking our LAV's (Light Armored Vehicle; 8-wheeled amphibious) to be some of the first responders for hurricane Katrina to assisting in the search for missing children. In almost all of these operations I worked side by side with LEO's who had military surplus equipment (helicopters, vehicles, night vision, FLIR) that greatly assisted them in serving the community through these roles and through more "typical" LE roles.
If you have a problem with the raid's which LEA's are conducting then you need to look at your District Attorney and your local, state and federal judges. Those Officers are doing their job; which is to execute the law in accordance with the officials appointed and elected over them.
There is a statistically insignificant number of officers who violate the law on their own accord; they are usually dealt with through the courts. However, virtually everything you've complained about are nothing more than LEO's doing their job as instructed by the persons elected to public office. No more can you blame a janitor for not cleaning the hall of a school when he's told by his boss to clean the cafeteria than you can blame an officer for serving a warrant requested by the DA and signed by a judge.
Last but not least... LEO's are much less likely to infringe upon your rights than joe snuffy walking down the street is likely to. The difference is, when your rear is in a pinch and you call for help... the LEO won't walk past and do nothing... most citizens will. LEO's can never conduct policing operations without identification. They may not have their name on their uniform, but there is one thing they will always have... something that identifies them as Law Enforcement (and when I'm assisting in a raid, I too go stearl... I don't need a couple dealers hunting me and my family down in the middle of the night). And of course... to say that LE is becoming militarized for the purpose of enacting a military state is itself ridiculous. To have a militarized state, the military must be involved to some extent. Why? Because the military is the last line of defense for your civil rights; when everything else has broken down and failed, the military is by design intended to reset the country on it's right tracks through martial law ("To defend against all enemies, both foreign and domestic"). The police alone cannot institute a military state. As far as how they are armed... enough examples of reasons why police need firepower have already been made... I don't need to list anymore.
First, I'll give you a little break-down of the way things work. The 1033 program is a federal military surplus redistribution program; there is a large number of items that can be transferred from the military to virtually any other local, state or federal government department. There is a program administrator in every state... this is an active duty position withing that state's National Guard. Usually this position is within the Counterdrug Division; a program itself federally funded and executed by the state to support local, state and federal law enforcement in operations consisting of a narcotic nexus.
The 1033 Program distributes everything from older, military-obsolete night vision devices, binoculars, cots, tents, sleeping bags and uniforms to rifles, vehicles and helicopters. The program DOES NOT distribute battle tanks, assault helicopters, missiles, machine guns (in the military terminology, not the ATF's), explosives are anything that could be deemed more destructive than rifles. The decisively slanted article you referenced failed to mention that the M113A2 Tracked Armored Personnel Carriers which are transferred to LEA's do not come with any armament; they are nothing more than a box made of ballistic aluminum alloy with a drive-train and tracks (which the tracks are almost always replaced with rubber tracks to help ensure the roads are not damaged; not that the rubber track pads on the steel tracks do much damage as it is).
The helicopters they distribute are UH-1 (Huey) and OH-58A (Kiowa); The first is a Utility Helicopter capable of transporting a little under 4000lbs, 14 personnel or up to 6 stretchers when used in medevac role; the come without any weapons or armament. Do not confuse the UH-1 with the AH-1 Cobra gunship (which is only sold to other militaries) The second (OH-58A) is a light observation helicopter with a max take-off weight of 2,300lbs, a crew of two and additional seating for two additional personnel. These ARE NOT the Kiowa Warrior (OH-58D) version (which comes equipped with mini-guns and/or 2.75mm rocket pods). So, perhaps you feel that law enforcement shouldn't have the ability to respond to natural disasters with a helicopter capable of moving casualties, or respond to a prison break or lost child with a helicopter capable of aerial observation for several hours at minimum of cost... but most of the public support these initiatives.
And yes, that is exactly the roles those helicopters are used in; fugitive apprehension, cannabis eradication, area observation for warrants and response to natural disasters or medevac operations. How do I know this? Because I've spent nearly four years working in the Counterdrug Division (just the latest of my military assignments); I've worked with various different departments who are currently using surplus military vehicles and helicopters. Through special exceptions in our congressional mandate which set up the CD program I've worked in a great number of law enforcement activities outside of the narcotic nexus... from taking our LAV's (Light Armored Vehicle; 8-wheeled amphibious) to be some of the first responders for hurricane Katrina to assisting in the search for missing children. In almost all of these operations I worked side by side with LEO's who had military surplus equipment (helicopters, vehicles, night vision, FLIR) that greatly assisted them in serving the community through these roles and through more "typical" LE roles.
If you have a problem with the raid's which LEA's are conducting then you need to look at your District Attorney and your local, state and federal judges. Those Officers are doing their job; which is to execute the law in accordance with the officials appointed and elected over them.
There is a statistically insignificant number of officers who violate the law on their own accord; they are usually dealt with through the courts. However, virtually everything you've complained about are nothing more than LEO's doing their job as instructed by the persons elected to public office. No more can you blame a janitor for not cleaning the hall of a school when he's told by his boss to clean the cafeteria than you can blame an officer for serving a warrant requested by the DA and signed by a judge.
Last but not least... LEO's are much less likely to infringe upon your rights than joe snuffy walking down the street is likely to. The difference is, when your rear is in a pinch and you call for help... the LEO won't walk past and do nothing... most citizens will. LEO's can never conduct policing operations without identification. They may not have their name on their uniform, but there is one thing they will always have... something that identifies them as Law Enforcement (and when I'm assisting in a raid, I too go stearl... I don't need a couple dealers hunting me and my family down in the middle of the night). And of course... to say that LE is becoming militarized for the purpose of enacting a military state is itself ridiculous. To have a militarized state, the military must be involved to some extent. Why? Because the military is the last line of defense for your civil rights; when everything else has broken down and failed, the military is by design intended to reset the country on it's right tracks through martial law ("To defend against all enemies, both foreign and domestic"). The police alone cannot institute a military state. As far as how they are armed... enough examples of reasons why police need firepower have already been made... I don't need to list anymore.