Death Threats

[ObsidianOne]

I hope I'm posting this in the right section, debated putting it in the Legal section.
I'll give the short and to the point story and then the subject for discussion.
I had a friend years ago that ended up being a total piece of work, contracted genital herpes and decided to continue sleeping with a lot of girls without protection and not telling them. Quite a few of these girls were my friends and obviously this made me quite concerned.
I informed the ones he slept with and asked them not to smear him, but to get tested and make sure everything was okay.
Coincidentally, another one of his friends found out and began spreading this info throughout the city, and I ended up getting blamed for it.
My girlfriend also had a friend that he was dating and he again, was sleeping with her but had not told her and she informed her as well.
Now, to the recent events, again, another one of my girlfriend's friends were over and she was friends with the guy (he and I since stopped talking because of his ways), and was talking to him on Facebook. When my girlfriend and I were mentioned (as she was over here) he began to say how much he hates us and how he "has a score to settle that involves a gun and two bullets" and that I "need to be a man and talk to him face to face". I asked him what exactly it was that I did, and he refused to tell me (I can only assume that I was being blamed for the outburst caused by his other friend, as others had previously told me he thought it was me) and began to also say that he'll "find me alone in a dark alley and the last thing I'll ever see is his face".

Sorry for the long bit, but I wanted to give you guys a bit more scope on what's going on.
Now, I've already filed a police report, had an officer look over the chatlog and he informed me of what I already knew, a lot can't be done about threats made online etc. as he could claim that it wasn't him and other things and suggested that both my girlfriend and I get an order of protection.
I know him pretty well, but there's been time between us, so I'm sure a lot has changed. I'm not sure if he has access to firearms, and I am currently in the process of purchasing a .45 for conceal carry (before the incident). I'm curious about the laws regarding defending myself, if the "RoE" if you will, change because of a prior death threat and what not. I plan on avoiding this person at all costs and I do not wish confrontation, but this has definitely put me floating between condition yellow and condition orange.
Any suggestions, aside from any contact with the individual, would be greatly welcomed as to how to handle the situation.

 

[rozziboy18]

thats a tuff one. if you live in a free state i would advise a carry permit and a healthy dose of hollow points for self protection. look into you local laws on use of leathal force and know what justifies using it if god forbid you have to. on things like this you cant afford to be to carefull, after all its you life on the line. other than that continue to live your life as usual, i dont know what kind of guy you are. somtimes its nessasary to adopt a carefull lifestyle. a higher sence of awarness is key places like parking lots and shortcuts whatever they may be become dangerous if the heat gets turned up.

a few years back when i was 17 i made a few childhood enemies as any kid will and i have had to take my lumps as a result. but who knew that a childhood bully would hold a grudge for 6 years. i ran into him at a local gas station and he deside to try and scare me to death by thumping the hood of my truck with a empty bottle. i was armed at the time and made it well know and he fled quickly. it one of 4 times in my life i was acualy scard for my life. i called the cops and now have a restraining order on him. he was arrested for destruction of private property and had to pay to fix my hood.

three weeks later i left work and headed to walmart on my weekly grocery trip. i retured for the store front to find a note on my window stating to watch my back. i have ben ever since. god forbid i have to use it but i carry daily and keep my head on a swival.
good luck to you, my thoughts and prayers go you to you and your family and yalls safty.

 

[ObsidianOne]

Yeah, I'm in Arizona. CCWs are not required anymore. I have a .357 Magnum, but it's a single action and rather large. Not much of a carry gun, unless I plan on heading out to the O.K. Corral lol.

That's a bummer, thankfully it got resolved without anyone getting harmed and he got prosecuted by the law.

Thank you.

 

[M-Cameron]

ide say buy a gun, learn to use it, and carry with you at all times........that and a can of pepper spray.

someone has made a potentially credible threat against your life, dont take any chances.

 

[IncredibleGord]

Aw man, good luck with this one, I hope nothing happens. My advice is to not live in fear, but stay cautious. The person you are speaking of would probably need a little motivation to do anything to you first. Possibly something bad happens to him, or maybe even getting intoxicated. Let your gut guide you through the day, and be careful to never get cornered. Scan for faces everywhere you go, and always have an escape plan. Until you figure out your CCW situation, evaluate if you need OC spray, handcuffs, flashlight, etc..... Best of luck to you!

I've had one similar experience. I had recently had a dispute with someone, and they called me at 3 in the morning, threatening to kill me. I gave the phone to my father, and he put the fear of God in to them. A few weeks later I received a text saying "You're Dead <deleted>" in the middle of the night. Within seconds, I grabbed my pistol gripped pardner pump 12 ga. next to my bed, went to the balcony slider (first floor) and stepped outside after pumping one of the 00 Buck rounds into the chamber. I saw no-one was there, and lowered the shotgun out of sight. I waited outside for a while (In my underpants mind you), and then went inside. I unloaded the shell in the chamber, and tried to go to sleep. I had the most adrenaline flowing then that I've ever had. Turns out one of my good friends was drunk, and thought it was comical to send me a message like that. I scolded him pretty hard.

I learned to sleep in more clothes after that experience.

Keep us updated.

 

[M-Cameron]

I waited outside for a while (In my underpants mind you), and then went inside. I unloaded the shell in the chamber, and tried to go to sleep. I had the most adrenaline flowing then that I've ever had. Turns out one of my good friends was drunk, and thought it was comical to send me a message like that. I scolded him pretty hard.

I learned to sleep in more clothes after that experience.

hey, never underestimate going into a gun fight in your undies...

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local-beat/Duty-Calls-N-Texas-Soldier-Battles-in-Pink-Undies---.html

 

[Mike Sr.]

------------

First off it my be against the law in your state to knowing transmitt a sexual disease...! ? ! ?

2nd, in my state a death threat can bring an immediate police eye ball to eye ball contact for the threat maker...especially if there is a 2nd voice to verify.....

Since the police in your area seem to be Eunuch's, buy a pocket tape recorder and keep it with you, or always have someone with you as a witness, incase you have another eye ball contact with this inconsiderate, self centered freak-a-zoid.

 

[Gouranga]

Can't comment on the "friend" too much, I know the type, knew a couple in college, you are better off not being near him. How it is cool to knowingly spread diseases to everyone else, never got that.

Good advice so far, you and your girl should be ccw, and keep your situational awareness up. If you have reason to believe an attack is imminent, make sure you do not regulate your pattern. Meaning, don't be so darned predictable you can set a watch by when you go places.

 

[xcgates]

First lesson seems to be something you already have, on top of recording everything, and making sure the proper authorities are notified (repeatedly), avoid contact as best as possible. Sure, it isn't the "manly" thing to do, but this isn't war, and even in war, you don't go and put yourself in front of a gun without a damn good reason, and as much preparation and backup as possible.

Screw manlyness, the first rule of surviving is staying safe, so don't stop where the person lives, and if you do see him, drive on by, etc.

Oh, and don't make bold statements about "What *I* will do if that schmuck shows up." He may deny what he said online, but with bad luck, what you say could come back to bite you if something happens.

That said, good luck, start praying, and I'm sure others will pray for you.

 

[Yo Mama]

One of the only fist fights I ever got in was with my "best friend". We didn't speak for years after until he flipped his truck and found G-d.

Those close to you can unfortunately become aggressive and violent.

 

[Sam1911]

I'm curious about the laws regarding defending myself, if the "RoE" if you will, change because of a prior death threat and what not.

The "ROE" do not change at all.

You still may not employ force unless the other guy shows an immediate (as in right now, this instant) ABILITY to harm you (he is armed, he is much bigger, etc.), has the OPPORTUNITY to harm you (he's right in front of you, not across the street or otherwise not quite able to get at you), to put you in JEOPARDY (he has shown in a clear, obvious, articulable way that he intends to kill you or maim you -- right NOW).

The Cornered Cat has a fantastic page on this: http://corneredcat.com/Legal/AOJ.aspx

As for what to do in the mean time, record every interaction. Report every threat or hostile act to the local authorities. (If possible, try to keep in touch with the same officer to establish continuity.)

Of course you should practice with your carry weapon and get some quality instruction in up-close and personal gun-fighting (as opposed to target shooting / plinking). But you should get the very best legal advice (a criminal defense attorney in your state might be able to talk you through the application of the relevant law as it plays out in the courtroom) and always remember that your social skills -- situational awareness, de-escalation, avoidance, etc. -- are what will really save your hide. Your gun is only there in the awful 1% chance that all else fails you.

 

[wishin]

Some of the pertinent AZ law on this that you should be aware of (bold and italics emphasis are my own):

http://www.azleg.gov/[/QUOTE] 13-4... this state where a person has a right to be.

 

[Deanimator]

1. An Order of Protection makes an excellent legal justification for shooting somebody when they violate it... and has very little other utility.
2. Get an appropriate carry piece and defensive ammunition.
3. And never forget:

• Police have no legal duty to protect individuals.
• Police have no legal liability when they fail to protect individuals.
• Police have virtually no physical ability to protect individuals.

When your life is in danger RIGHT NOW, either be willing and able to protect YOURSELF or just don't get protected AT ALL.

I've gotten death threats in the past, both from a known individual, and from anonymous neo-Nazis in usenet. In the former case we didn't get the time of day from the police... although the Fulton, MO PD did promise to spring into action as soon as any of us threatened were harmed. In the latter, I didn't even bother to report it, as I would have had to explain to the police what usenet WAS, and I didn't have that much time to waste BEFORE they told me there was nothing they could or would do.

In the first case, the problem was "resolved" by a reference to the line used first by Richard Boone, then John Wayne in the movie "Big Jake": "If anything happens to any one of us, our fault, your fault, nobody's fault at all, you're going to get your head blown clean off." That message apparently resonated with the threatener.

In the second case, the Nazis were asked, "You think you know where I am, how come you're not here yet? I've got a stack of loaded Garand clips I'd like to get out of the way." That message apparently resonated as well.

 

[ObsidianOne]

I certainly appreciate all of the responses guys.
I personally feel that the comments made by him were an attempt to lash out at me and cause me to feel threatened because of the way he feels.
Like I said, I knew him very well and would not deem him foolish enough to blatantly attack me or my loved ones (I've seen the guy get tough, get punched in the face and run away yelling "You don't know who you're messing with!" and tried calling some friends to rally them to go attack lol). I don't doubt for a second if he had the opportunity where he thought he could get away with it though.
He called my girlfriend quite a few nasty names, which got her fired up, but I believe that he was saying those things to get to me specifically. He's always prided himself on his ability to enrage others (great guy, right?) and I've learned to not let his methods phase me.

Unfortunately, my girlfriend didn't, and still doesn't see the need for carrying and despite my wishes, does not want to.
However, very rarely is she without me, and when she is, she's usually at home, where she knows where my guns are and knows how to use them.
The other good thing is both work at the same company, work similar shifts, I end up walking her out every night to her car, and even if I weren't able to, we have some great security guards that will.

The police officer did take what I was saying seriously, I expressed to him that it is a valid concern to me, though I have my doubts of his ability and will to do such damage, but would still like it to be handled accordingly.
I believe the officer going over and advising him that threatening people's lives is a serious offense and letting him know next time it'll mean he's getting arrested should do the trick, but I'm not taking chances.
Unfortunately, he did not call me and let me know if he had made contact with him as he said he was going to do though.

I really do hope this situation does just float away and does not become a problem, however, I will be ready should it choose to do just the opposite.
Again, I appreciate everyone's input on this, the more knowledge the better.

 

[Black Toe Knives]

Nothing stops the Officer from making a "friendly" visit, it is not a legal action. My wife has a business where employees have made threats or harassed her or her employees. It seems the simple visit form LEO stops any idle threats.
In light of current events, i would say idle threats are taken pretty seriously. I would go directly to DA, not law enforcement and get a PO.

 

[Shadow 7D]

I would contact the police and DA and inform them of the threats against your life, the fact that he is continuing to infect women, personally I would feel sorry for him, one of these days he will catch what is coming to him, like from a pissed ex....

Oh and I actively seek to avoid this guy, after all, he is nothing but a black hole, one of those people it is best never to be around or near, cause the stink is hard to wash off.

 

[Hunt480]

First of all you should pack all the time anyway.

Second of all I would'nt worry about a chat room threat from nobody that stupid enough to do it online.

Third; don't call the law on anybody.

 

[Sam1911]

Third; don't call the law on anybody.

That is pretty awful, dangerous, irresponsible advice. The police need to be involved. Their influence may have a calming influence on the jerk. Their documentation of the OP's complaints and the testimony of the officers who have observed the threats would be CRITICALLY important if something terrible does someday happen between them.

 

[Cosmoline]

You have the right idea of avoiding him rather than confronting him. You must not "man up" and face him down. That's a fatal error. If he's serious about killing you, he will just have a much easier target. If he wasn't serious, then you're wasting your time anyway. And there's always the chance that if cornered he'll do something he never would have done otherwise. Avoid any interaction, argument or discussion with the person. If confronted, watch his hands, NOT his eyes. While eyes can give you some subjective idea of his seriousness, it's the hands that kill.

The prior verbal death threat in and of itself doesn't justify self defense, because there's no imminence to the danger. But it is a potentially important factor in your analysis. It should make you take him seriously as a threat, and watch him carefully if you see him around.

 

[Deanimator]

Second of all I would'nt worry about a chat room threat from nobody that stupid enough to do it online.

...unless their name is Jared Loughner... or Cho Seung Hui... or Eric Harris... or Dylan Klybold?

 

[Hunt480]

Don't think this guy is a candidate for a shooting rampage,and you don't call the law every time your buddies blow off steam.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Unfortunately, he did not call me and let me know if he had made contact with him as he said he was going to do though.

Of course not. The police aren't actually going to do anything except fill out paperwork. But, they will make a record of the incident which will be important should you have the need to defend yourself.

 

[Deanimator]

Don't think this guy is a candidate for a shooting rampage,and you don't call the law every time your buddies blow off steam.

Do you KNOW him?

If not, you have NO idea what he's a "candidate" for. EVERY one of these killings sprees has had ABUNDANT prior warning from the shooters. But then if it all goes wrong, YOU will have lost NOTHING.

 

[Hunt480]

Deanimator,thats seems like a paranoid way of thinking. You put the guy in that special class of nuts over nothing.I don't know this guy. I guess city people think differently.

 

[wannasupra]

just move. i mean, AZ is pretty sweet, but seriously, it's not worth having to watch your back just because some dirt bag has herpes. i mean, who shoots someone because they have herpes.