Don't stop and help people on the side of the road

[nebraska_farmer]

I was telling my girlfriend the other day about a story I read online, a guy pulled over to assist an unidentified person lying on the side of the road in a rural area. As he approached the individual a few guys emerged from the roadside brush and robbed him.

http://www.freep.com/article/20140809/NEWS05/308090084/bedford-teen-abducted-update

Turner had been talking with a friend on the phone when she said she saw a man lying in a ditch. “Seconds later, Hayley told her friend, ‘He has a gun,’ and the phone was disconnected,” Monroe County Sheriff Dale Malone said Friday.

This poor girl found out the hard way that some people are dirtbags cannot be trusted. Had she not been on the phone with her friend she would have been in much more trouble. Just wanted to share this article with you all and remind everyone to be safe.

Moderator Note: While there are risks attendant to any encounter, the above link is based on a story that is false.

 

[besafe2]

Never have never will. If I feel it's an emergency I make the 911 call.

 

[1911 guy]

In this day of cell phones, I only stop for folks with families broke down. If I see an accident, I can call 911 and give a report of location and what I observed. Same with someone broke down. I can call the local cop shop and have them check it out. Whole family sitting by the side of the road? I usually stop then and offer to at least make a call for them. Single male or female? Even couple with no kids? Nope. I can call the locals while I keep motoring on.

 

[WALKERs210]

I was always the first to stop and help anyone, but times have changed so much I too will make phone calls but will not stop, unless I see it is someone from my community. Our town is so small the Welcome and Come Back Soon sign is on the same post.

 

[Bobson]

There was an incident about three or four years ago where an off duty Arizona correctional officer stopped to help after being flagged down by a teen who said his friend was hurt. When the officer came around the side of his vehicle, he was met with a shotgun blast to the chest. Killed instantly.

The two teens did it because they needed a car to drive to a party.

I spoke with the teen who flagged the officer down (his friend was the one who pulled the trigger), as I was an Arizona CO at the time. He had been in prison for less than a year at that point, and he didn't seem the least bit remorseful. There are some sick people out there.

 

[Onward Allusion]

On a deserted road or in a deserted area, no freakin' way would I stop - even if it is a family. I would call 'em the road service or 911. These days, when some idiots bring their kids along for burglaries or car thefts, there's no guarantee.

 

[MedWheeler]

It's been years since I've had to stop for a disabled motorist, as I don't commute on the highway much anymore.

When I did, however, I would typically size up stopped parties and frequently stop to offer aid or a phone call (in the days before everyone had a phone.)

I did so with my safety in mind. My practice was to pass the stopped vehicle and stop a few hundred feet ahead of it. I'd then be able to check the roadside as I backed up to about 60-100 feet in front of the vehicle. Once there, if I was still inclined to offer aid (or its need was still apparent), I'd step out of my truck and instruct one of the party members to walk forward to me.

Now, of course, this was reserved for parties meeting certain profiles, such as a single woman, a family with children, a single, clean-cut man, or elderly persons. If you were one of four people who looked like you spent the last decade working out in a prison exercise yard, you and your party were on your own.

Never had an issue, but, as mentioned, rarely come across the situation anymore.

Last week, I did see an apparently-intoxicated young man stop and lie down on the roadside at about 2AM. I circled the block once or twice to see if he'd get up and move along, then called it in.

 

[Theohazard]

I was always the first to stop and help anyone, but times have changed so much I too will make phone calls but will not stop, unless I see it is someone from my community.

I don't know how times have changed in your neck of the woods, but nationally crime has gone way down over the last several decades. The only thing that makes it seem like things are worse is our new mass-media; we hear a lot more bad news than we ever did before. But this country is as safe as it's been in a very long time.

I think stories like this simply stoke too much fear. Sure, it's good to be on the lookout for stuff like this, but I'm not going to stop helping strangers just because stuff like this happens once in a while. These thing are very rare, but people who actually do need help aren't. I'm going to continue to offer help to those who need it, but also keep an eye out for anything that looks wrong.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Keep your head on a swivel....

Ambush or "trick roll" type robberies are not uncommon in my metro area.

A armed security officer in a "rough area" was approached by 2 friendly guys asking directions. He started to explained the route when the duo cut the ruse & pulled guns out.
The hapless guard lost his loaded sidearm, badge, handcuffs & OC spray.

A armed security officer I worked with on a storm recovery detail in south Florida(Wilma 2005) was later murdered while doing a warehouse security job in Daytona Beach Florida. He was attacked by a group of 4/5 hijack crew robbers.
The former US Surgeon General, Richard Corona, a SE Asia combat veteran & SWAT trained LE officer had a tragic incident where he had to use lethal force at a vehicle accident scene. A vehicle occupant lunged at Corona & tried to kill him.

The writer & LE tactics trainer Massad Ayoob documented how a senior citizen picked up by two rural TN police officers at a disabled vehicle scene murdered both young officers while in the patrol car!

If a person runs up to you with a claim that seems desperate or dire, use caution. It may be a ruse or a lie. In the late 2000s, I had a guy claim a vehicle with a smashed windshield was reported stolen(grand theft auto). It turns out, the scumbag was lying. He pulled a hit & run, striking a older woman who's injuries were so severe she was in a ICU.
A state trooper later told me what happened. He thought the guy's claims were distorted. I agreed but took issue with how he claimed to report the auto theft.
His "acting" was totally credible though, if he were on a isolated road or highway, Id bet someone might fall for it.

 

[1911 guy]

It is a fact that violent crime has dropped nationwide.

HOWEVER:

The incidents that do occur are far more consistent in their M.O. and far more likely to result in serious harm or death than before. The single man/woman flagging down a motorist only for the good citizen to be jumped by an attacker is one of those that fit the profile of the consistent M.O. Work in pairs or groups to mentally disarm a victim before the attack. And rather than a "simple" beating and robbery/carjacking, the result is usually shooting or very severe harm.

 

[Theohazard]

The incidents that do occur are far more consistent in their M.O. and far more likely to result in serious harm or death than before.

Do you have any references to back that up? People claim all the time that things are getting worse, but usually it's simply a misconception and things are no worse than they've been. I'm not saying you're definitely wrong, but I'd like to see some evidence because I'm skeptical.

 

[TennJed]

I don't know how times have changed in your neck of the woods, but nationally crime has gone way down over the last several decades. The only thing that makes it seem like things are worse is our new mass-media; we hear a lot more bad news than we ever did before. But this country is as safe as it's been in a very long time.

I think stories like this simply stoke too much fear. Sure, it's good to be on the lookout for stuff like this, but I'm not going to stop helping strangers just because stuff like this happens once in a while. These thing are very rare, but people who actually do need help aren't. I'm going to continue to offer help to those who need it, but also keep an eye out for anything that looks wrong.

No need to carry a gun then, since the chance is very low you will need it. Heck no reason for you to even own one for anything other than sport.

Fact it we take precautions every day, so against things with minimal chance of happening, but with bad consequences. This is one of those things. With cell phones you can still help, without putting yourself at risk

 

[RustyShackelford]

Jumper cables....

I don't jump car batteries or let people jump start vehicles with my SUV anymore. I've had too many bad experiences with people who need help & either screw up how they jump it or they have seriously damaged engines/ignition problems.
I just say I can't help or my car battery is bad.
If my vehicle is broke down, I use a auto club service. I also have road hazard protection on my back tires. That's handy.

 

[orionengnr]

1. The methodology for gathering statistics evolves from one year to the next (and more importantly, who is gathering the data). There is an old saying by a wise man about lies, damn lies and statistics.

2. In case you didn't get item #1, let's try again. Statistics mean nothing, especially if you are the victim.

3. If you didn't get #1 and #2, I'll try one more time. All the statistics in the world mean nothing. At the end of the day, you are on your own.

The Supreme Court agrees.

 

[Theohazard]

No need to carry a gun then, since the chance is very low you will need it. Heck no reason for you to even own one for anything other than sport.

You're making a strawman argument. I carry a gun to prepare for the unlikely situation that I'll need it, but I won't let media fear-mongering stop me from helping a stranger who needs it. If you decide to never help anyone who looks like they're in need of some assistance because of the unlikely chance that it's an ambush, then there are a lot of other risky things you should probably stop doing also. Me, I'll keep doing risky things as long as the risk isn't too high; I'll just make sure I'm prepared for anything that might happen.

 

[Theohazard]

1. The methodology for gathering statistics evolves from one year to the next (and more importantly, who is gathering the data). There is an old saying by a wise man about lies, damn lies and statistics.

2. In case you didn't get item #1, let's try again. Statistics mean nothing, especially if you are the victim.

3. If you didn't get #1 and #2, I'll try one more time. All the statistics in the world mean nothing. At the end of the day, you are on your own.

The Supreme Court agrees.

I agree that you should be responsible for your own defense, and I also agree that statistics are often misleading or flat-out wrong, but to say that statistics always mean nothing is absolutely ridiculous.

Are you saying that every dangerous possibility should be treated equally and you should ignore the statistical likelyhood that it will happen to you? So I should be just as prepared for a school shooting as I should be for a car accident? One of those is astronomically unlikely to ever happen to me and the other is fairly likely.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I'm really surprised at this thread. You guys never stop and help? Really? I can appreciate prudence but I won't let my life be so ruled by fear that I'll simply turn a blind eye to people in need. Obviously there are situations that make your spidey sense tingle but those are relatively few and far between in my neck of the woods.

I remember maybe fifteen or twenty years ago I was helping my sister move across the state in the dead of winter. Seems it January, and about -10 F with a 20 mph wind. We left town in my dad's old green Ford pickup and about 25 miles out we heard a bit of a knocking in the engine. We spent the next five miles debating turning back and were actually looking for a spot to turn around when a rod bolt gave out in the motor. Sun going down, -10 F and falling, howling wind- and there we were. I can't count the number of cars that went by and didn't even slow down. Bear in mind this was before cell phones. We wouldn't have survived two or three miles walking in that weather and even sitting with the truck would have been perilous. Eventually a guy in a brand new Silverado stopped and offered us a ride. He actually had an open beer in his hand and claimed it was his first one, just getting off the job site. Well, he could have been sloshed and it would have beat freezing to death.

Maybe you guys will read about me on the news some day, good Samaritan killed stopping to help someone on a lonely stretch of South Dakota road. Well, better that than just pretend other people aren't my problem.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Theohazard: I think stories like this simply stoke too much fear.

They "stoke" no fear for me, but they do inform me about a potentially very serious risk that I might not have considered otherwise.

Sure, it's good to be on the lookout for stuff like this, but I'm not going to stop helping strangers just because stuff like this happens once in a while.

How does that "lookout" work?

These thing are very rare, but people who actually do need help aren't. I'm going to continue to offer help to those who need it, but also keep an eye out for anything that looks wrong.

If they do it right, nothing will look "wrong" until it's too late.

I carry a gun to prepare for the unlikely situation that I'll need it, but I won't let media fear-mongering stop me from helping a stranger who needs it.

Hmmm....

Media fear-mongering aside, and I don't know what brought that up, posing as "a stranger who needs [help]" is a demonstrated way to trap unwitting victims.

The likelihood that what appears to be motorist in need is actually a partner in a criminal action may be remote--or not. But the potential consequences are extremely severe.

On the other side of the coin, unless you are driving a tow truck (in which case they should be concerned about you), the likelihood that you will be able to offer more than a call on your cell-phone anyway is realistically rather low these days.

By all means, help. Do so by making a call, in the unlikely event that they do not have the wherewithal to do so themselves, or that no one else has done so yet.

But some very basic objective risk assessment would tell most who think about it (1) that the likelihood that one will never need a gun is probably a good deal lower than the likelihood that that apparent "stranger in need" constitutes a trap, and (2) that we would be able to do much more by stopping than by making a call.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

They "stoke" no fear for me, but they do inform me about a potentially very serious risk that I might not have considered otherwise.

While I agree with this sentiment, it is the title of the thread that seems to be trying to stoke fear by stating "Don't stop and help people..." as if it is an absolute to which people should conform or they end up like the girl in the article, or worse. It is an oversimplified, knee-jerk sort of statement that really isn't wholly valid. As you point out, there are ways to help safely.

The likelihood that what appears to be motorist in need is actually a partner in a criminal action may be remote--or not. But the potential consequences are extremely severe.

Absolutely.

 

[zerobarrier]

Now as for me, since I work in the medical field and have specialized training especially now that I am back in school to be come a PA, I feel the need to stop if I see someone lying on the side of the road. In good conscious I could not just drive by. Now I always carry a pistol and in that situation I stop the car 300' or so away. Get out, turn flashlight on if at night, look around on side's of the road, pull my pistol out, announce that I am armed and weapon is out, walk down middle of the road while looking on both sides until I pass the victim by 100ish feet, then pay special attention to bush's and any vehicles, then approach person cautiously.

Now if it was a family or a person standing on the side of the road, if I stop I would just tuck my shirt in, I always carry OWB, and once I exited the car I would inform them that I am armed and will help them if they need it.

That's about the best way I could deal with those scenario's, its not the best, but it would have to do.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I often stop to help people. I make a judgement call based on time of day, location, and what they look like.

 

[Kleanbore]

Long ago in a place far away, I was riding in a car at night on a rural two-lane highway with a friend and his fiancee. We passed a car with flat tire. My friend said something about always helping a traveler in need. We went back.

There were three of them, well dressed and polite with a truly disabled car. They had made things worse.

Inexplicably, they decided to undertake a violent criminal attack. But they telegraphed their intentions.

I happened to be coming around behind them with a couple of additional tire irons when I heard their plans, and I ended the threat just as they made their move. How is not important, or for public discussion.

Today we have cell phones, and I do not stop.

 

[Slamfire]

It hardly takes an instant to Google and find lots of incidents where people just walk around severely injured people. We live in a cold and callous world. Anyone remember what Jesus said about “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”?

Just remember that as a file of people walk on by when you have your accident.

Stabbed hero dies as more than 20 people stroll past him.

http://nypost.com/2010/04/24/stabbed-hero-dies-as-more-than-20-people-stroll-past-him/

Video: Bystanders Walk past accident victim while getting on the Bus.

http://www.arlnow.com/2012/07/16/vi...ast-accident-victim-while-getting-on-the-bus/

This could happen to you at the Qucky Mart: You buy something, someone shoots you in the head, and the customers all walk around you on the way to the checkout.

Surveillance video shows customers ignoring, walking around body of man shot dead
http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/243317...ignoring-walking-around-body-of-man-shot-dead

Maybe the best thing to do is not go to stores, drive on roads, etc. Just stay at home, where no one will bother you.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by SlamFire1: Maybe the best thing to do is not go to stores, drive on roads, etc. Just stay at home, where no one will bother you.

There are far more reasonable and realistic ways to manage risks and to avoid doing something that could make you a victim.

 

[Jaymo]

I have a company vehicle that I drive to/from customers.
Company policy does not allow me to stop and help, period.
I cannot afford to lose my job, trying to play hero.
I will call for help.