Denied for handgun purchase

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juliansavino

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Joined
Jul 7, 2008
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Location
Royal oak, MI.
Hi, this is my first post on THR. Ok here goes, i went to my local police station for a purchasers permit and they told me to come back in 48 hours... so i do then they tell me something got messed up in the paper work and i will have to wait a week for a decision... i waited 3 days and called them up and they told me i was denied for the following: my sister is involved in an on going investigation, completely unrelated to me in anyway, other than she is my sister, and they said another reason is because i was in the area of a fire one year ago at a local school but what i cant pound through there thick heads is that my apartment is the building adjacent to the school. now i have no criminal record no history of violence and honestly im not even 100% sure that my police station even put my application through to the NICS. i was hoping for some advice.
thank you in advance,
Julian.
 
yes they said i can appeal to the NICS and that they would mail me the form, but on the phone the clerk told me i was denied by the luetenant (spelling:/) she said nothing about being denied by NICS. oh i also forgot to mention she said that i could re-apply in exactly one year, i told her i had already waited 21 years and she basicly laughed at me, i honestly feel violated and would expect more from law enforcement.
 
They're just hoping you won't fight it and that you will go away. You already now this but if you don't have a criminal record or mental stability issues they can't deny you and win the case should you pursue it. The part I don't understand is why your name would come up in your sisters problem? Have you had words with an LEO or reason they would red flag you as a person to be watched? I had a friend who had a somewhat similar problem when applying for a full auto stamp. The police chief had a policy of "no" regardless of who you are. He fought it, won and because he chose to pursue it the police chief had to change his "policy" for others that followed.
 
they said another reason is because i was in the area of a fire one year ago at a local school but what i cant pound through there thick heads is that my apartment is the building adjacent to the school.
What does it mean that you were "in the area of a fire?" What did they say about that specifically?

What was your involvement in the fire incident?
 
yea thats exactaly what i thought they were doing but they deffinitly picked the wrong person, i dont like being treated unfairly, and what really gets my goat is the false accusation of the school fire which might i add the school was half way torn down (it was condemed) and i didnt even attend that school.

EDIT: yea see i was leaving my apartment to go grab some grub with a buddy and i saw a fire truck coming down the road so i pulled over to the side like the 2 other cars in front of me and just as i started moving again a cop rolls up behind me and pulls me over... pulls me out of the car and searches me. basicly trying to tell me that i had started the fire. they didnt say anything specific about it just that i was in the area where there was a fire... i also asked if i could get a copy of the report to see, i bet u couldve guessed the answer was NO.
 
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(5tawnmyuxfjsfjfbgbzzl331))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-28-422&highlight=Firearms

(3) The commissioner or chief of police of a city, township, or village police department that issues licenses to purchase, carry, or transport pistols, or his or her duly authorized deputy, or the sheriff or his or her duly authorized deputy, in the parts of a county not included within a city, township, or village having an organized police department, in discharging the duty to issue licenses shall with due speed and diligence issue licenses to purchase, carry, or transport pistols to qualified applicants residing within the city, village, township, or county, as applicable unless he or she has probable cause to believe that the applicant would be a threat to himself or herself or to other individuals, or would commit an offense with the pistol that would violate a law of this or another state or of the United States. An applicant is qualified if all of the following circumstances exist:

(a) The person is not subject to an order or disposition for which he or she has received notice and an opportunity for a hearing, and which was entered into the law enforcement information network pursuant to any of the following:

(i) Section 464a(1) of the mental health code, 1974 PA 258, MCL 330.1464a.

(ii) Section 5107 of the estates and protected individuals code, 1998 PA 386, MCL 700.5107, or section 444a of former 1978 PA 642.

(iii) Section 2950(9) of the revised judicature act of 1961, 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.2950.

(iv) Section 2950a(7) of 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.2950a.

(v) Section 14 of 1846 RS 84, MCL 552.14.

(vi) Section 6b(5) of chapter V of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 765.6b, if the order has a condition imposed pursuant to section 6b(3) of chapter V of 1927 PA 175, MCL 765.6b.

(vii) Section 16b(1) of chapter IX of 1927 PA 175, MCL 769.16b.

(b) The person is 18 years of age or older or, if the seller is licensed pursuant to section 923 of title 18 of the United States Code, 18 USC 923, is 21 years of age or older.

(c) The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal resident of this state.

(d) A felony charge against the person is not pending at the time of application.

(e) The person is not prohibited from possessing, using, transporting, selling, purchasing, carrying, shipping, receiving, or distributing a firearm under section 224f of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.224f.

(f) The person has not been adjudged insane in this state or elsewhere unless he or she has been adjudged restored to sanity by court order.

(g) The person is not under an order of involuntary commitment in an inpatient or outpatient setting due to mental illness.

(h) The person has not been adjudged legally incapacitated in this state or elsewhere. This subdivision does not apply to a person who has had his or her legal capacity restored by order of the court.

(i) The person correctly answers 70% or more of the questions on a basic pistol safety review questionnaire approved by the basic pistol safety review board and provided to the individual free of charge by the licensing authority. If the person fails to correctly answer 70% or more of the questions on the basic pistol safety review questionnaire, the licensing authority shall inform the person of the questions he or she answered incorrectly and allow the person to attempt to complete another basic pistol safety review questionnaire. The person shall not be allowed to attempt to complete more than 2 basic pistol safety review questionnaires on any single day. The licensing authority shall allow the person to attempt to complete the questionnaire during normal business hours on the day the person applies for his or her license.

According to State Law, Michigan is a shall-issue state for their pistol purchase permits. The only possible reason the LEO in charge could refuse it (based on what you've told us) is
unless he or she has probable cause to believe that the applicant would be a threat to himself or herself or to other individuals, or would commit an offense with the pistol that would violate a law of this or another state or of the United States
.
Get a lawyer versed in gun law and ask them what recourse you have. Check with your state CCW and Pro-2A groups. They might know a state legislator that can bring some weight to bear.

Being a tennant near an arson is not probable cause, nor is one's sibling being a criminal or such. IMO, this is infringement and a clear violation of state law.
 
BTW, online listings of State Revised Codes can be your friend.

if i could only understand them.

i would like to talk to a lawyer but im sure most will want me to cough up some dough.
also i further elaborated on the fire in my previous reply if it helps make anything more clear.
 
also i have another question, i own two rifles already which i have obtained legally of course... does this mean i am not allowed to own them now?

Find the nearest RKBA group and ask their advice about a pro-RKBA lawyer. I'd advise staying away from the cop-shop until after getting legal advice.

Art, what is RKBA and why do you advise staying clear of the police, could i be in some sort of trouble?
 
The R.O. Police may cave if forced to show probable cause. They can't. It will cost something, but have a lawyer talk to the police and city attorney and make it very clear they can't show probable cause and that you will sue (even if you won't). You can probably sue in Oakland County Circuit Court if necessary, but hopefully it won't be.

If you wait a year, the result will be the same. Royal Oak has an attitude.

On second thought, apply for a CPL. If it's denied, take it to the gun board. Once you have the CPL, you won't need the police to buy a handgun.
 
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i own two rifles already which i have obtained legally of course... does this mean i am not allowed to own them now?
This has nothing to do with owning rifles. They don't want to give you a permit to purchase.
 
thank you for the info esq_stu, but how can i get a cpl dont i have to do that with the police to? so are we all in basic agreeance that they havnt even put my app through to NICS? if so if i filed an appeal for denial with the NICS what would happen?
 
if so if i filed an appeal for denial with the NICS what would happen?

It would become readily evident that the PD did not do it's job, and you'd likely be instantly approved.

Around here, if you are denied, you are supplied the appeal information immediately.
Your PD should have done the same.

Go through with the appeal...
as long as your story is true, nothing bad can come of it.
What's the worst thay can say..."NO"?
 
juliansavino,

I'm sorry about your problem, but you are not going to get your situation squared away over the Internet. You really need to do as Art Eatman suggested and find yourself a local RKBA lawyer. It will cost you money, but that's just how it is.

You need to appeal the decision, and the best way is with a qualified lawyer. If you try to do it yourself, especially with a lot of Errornet advice, you just might make things worse for yourself.
 
The gentleman is a resident of MIchigan. He is wanting to buy a handgun and needs a MI handgun purchase permit. They are issued by the local PD. Im noyt sure what(data) the PD checks to issue/deny the purchase permit.

NICS gets involved later if one does not have a CPL.

Contact Jim Simmons who posts here. I believe I read he will be vacationing this week(week after the 4th).
 
Check out MIgunowners.org

There is a very good lawyer on the board who will be able to assist you. Jim Simmons is the person. langenc beat me to it.



-James
 
fiddletown, im not tryin to get it squared away just simply seeking advise, im going to try the NICS appeal then lawyer up if it fails, i just dont want to drop money on a lawyer.
 
You need to appeal the decision, and the best way is with a qualified lawyer. If you try to do it yourself, especially with a lot of Errornet advice, you just might make things worse for yourself.

If he wants to be able to eventually purchase a firearm in that city, yes, he needs to appeal the decision which might be nothing more than writing some letters or calling, or both, to a higher authority.

As far as making it worse for himself, I hardly think that is good advice. While the authorities would probably rather deal with one of their lawyer buddies, they have an obligation to work with individuals as well.

Providing there is nothing more to the "in the area" story or the "sister" story, he should be able to push enough buttons on his own to get his permit. If he is still a suspect in an ongoing investigation, his permit might be held up for those reasons.
 
Track down Jim simmons first.
Jim is a good guy and I am not sure what he charges for stuff but he will be up front with you.

I would not jump into this with out knowing what needs to be done and the proper way to do it. The last thing you want is to snowball this if that can be avoided.

I don't even think the Nics check come into play until you buy your gun. it might just be as simple as the PD over stepping their bounds and pushing a little guy around.
 
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