Denied sale after background check cleared.

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A friend of mine couldn't buy alcohol because he had someone under the age of 21 with him. This person was his 6 year old daughter and he had to make her sit on a bench away from the register in order to buy it. After she went away he could then buy it. Anyone know of 6 year olds with drinking problems?
 
It is not a straw purchase to purchase a gun for a gift. "It is a straw purchase if that person is actually paying for the gun." If your buying the gun, you are the purchaser and you can give the gun to anyone that can legally own it. If a child is not old enough due to state law or federal law, you can give it and still retain legal ownership.
 
It is not a straw purchase to purchase a gun for a gift. "It is a straw purchase if that person is actually paying for the gun."
A distinction no doubt lost on King Michael, which no doubt is why Wal-Mart is handling this the way they are.

In my neck o' the woods, if I was to try to buy a $500 gun and was a penny short, turned to my buddy and borrowed a penny, the gun is going back in the case (NO GUN FOR YOU!).

Silly...absolutely, but many shops aware of what's going on politically are in major CYA mode.
 
The paranoia about gifts is ridiculous. If a shop wants to be that silly, they can just not get business.

Until then, the Mrs and I will continue to argue in front of the counter over who last filled out the silly form, and if we can't remember do a paper-rock-scissors to determine who gets to this time, at least for guns that aren't solely for one or the other of us.
Almost all guns become household guns, getting puckery about handing something over to another household member to handle is stupid.
 
The paranoia about gifts is ridiculous. If a shop wants to be that silly, they can just not get business.

Until then, the Mrs and I will continue to argue in front of the counter over who last filled out the silly form, and if we can't remember do a paper-rock-scissors to determine who gets to this time, at least for guns that aren't solely for one or the other of us.
Almost all guns become household guns, getting puckery about handing something over to another household member to handle is stupid.

Unfortunately, in this political climate the paranoia is justified. Legally, if ANY gun shop owner heard a husband/wife pair discussing who is "going to fill out the paperwork this time", it would be legally irresponsible of them to complete the sale. Is it a stupid law? Yep, but realistically it IS the law right now, and any FFL holder that wants to stay free and in business is going to follow it to the letter.
 
straw purchase?

in the past 6 months my wife and i have gone to cabelas, both times a handgun was purchased, by me for her. she did the paperwork and i paid,so was that a straw purchase? none of the sales people gave it a2nd thought.
 
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she did the paperwork and i paid,

Oh no! Everyone panic, the political climate makes that dangerous to the children or something!
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Story's like this are the reason I am becoming increasingly pessimistic and untrusting of my country. This is sad. The kid's can't even be around anymore huh? Hell, even if the kid is 10, his dad should be able to buy him a gun. I don't want to hear any "but's" and "in this case."

This is just plain stupid. I'm going to tell you all something: This country is dying very quickly. We really need to start doing something about it...
 
in the past 6 months my wife and i have gone to cabelas, both times a handgun was purchased, by me for her. she did the paperwork and i paid,so was that a straw purchase? none of the sales people gave it a2nd thought.
If you do that in my neck o' the woods post-Bloomberg, you ain't walking outta the shop with a gun! (see previous example of simply borrowing a penny).

screw the "political climate"...right and wrong cannot be enforced with paperwork and political nonsense
Should I ever decide to give a gun as a gift, I'll be sure to carry BFD with me to argue my case!
'Course, I'm sure we'll still be walking out the store empty handed... :rolleyes:
 
you don't need me, you need to actually read the form and act like you know what you're doing.
Thanks for the heads up!
I'm sure bluster will seal the deal with my local dealer. :D
 
I gave my son a .243 for his 9th birthday. Wallyworld would have probably had a cow.

Nah. They (and all the dealers here) really have no agenda. They're just covering their butts. If you give no indication that there is a straw sale then they're not liable and they don't care what you do after you leave the store. At that point the fault and all liability fall back on the buyer. Since literally buying a gift is perfectly legal, you're fine. It's just that if they suspect that a sale is a straw sale then they could be held accountable if they don't act, and though it's LEGAL, the whole gifting situation is suspicious to a dealer.

Basically, gifting is a legal activity that is related enough to an illegal activity (straw purchases) that the mere mention of the former is enough to cause suspicion of the latter.

Consider if someone came in to the store and bought a box of bullets, duct tape, trash bags, and a shovel. All legal items, and truthfully the person buying them may have full intentions to use these in a non-sinister and legal manner. Still, no matter what, it is going to arouse suspicion. When it comes to straw sales they're legally liable if they don't act on that suspicion.

If you're buying a firearm as a gift, don't bring the person along, and don't make any mention of it to the clerk. You're not legally required to, and it keeps the situation simpler for everyone involved.
 
No.But I was so mad I left them a cart load of stuff to put back on the shelf.Got the gun from Ohio Outfitters today for 2 dollars more and the boys were allowed to look it over before buying it. Now it's time to get rid of those pesky groundhogs.
 
My understanding is 16 for airsoft,18 for 22,and 21 for all else.But I could be mistaken.

Close-ish. 16 for air rifles (doesn't have to be soft - can be regular pellets), 18 for long guns, and 21 for handguns. That's just the requirements for people buying though. Parents are allowed to give their children guns at younger ages. I owned my first centerfire gun by the time I was 8 years old :D. My dad isn't much of a handgunner though, so I did have to wait until I was 21 until I bought one of those for myself.
 
Years ago, I stopped at a Walmart to buy a 10/22. For one of those, Walmart is likely going to have the best price.

I fill out the 4473 and hand it back. Then the clerk hands me another one for me to fill out. That isn't right. I tell him that I only have to fill out one, he tells me this one is for the home office so the ATF can just go there. I tell him well use your xerox machine. He said I had to fill it out or no gun.

Oh I was pissed. I walked away and then returned and demanded the first 4473 since it wasn't a completed sale. Yup, he gave it to me, no he shouldn't have.

Anyway, I went over to MC Sports and bought one for a few dollars less.

A few weeks ago, I bought a Marlin rimfire for my nephew as his 11th year old birthday present. I used the guy that has been doing my transfers. He has a small building on his land to have a separate address so the clinton kitchen table dealer crap doesn't apply to him. He started his serial numbers on the 4473 from 1, I'm his best customer now, I can tell from the serial numbers on the form ratcheting up.

I emailed him in the beginning that I was wanting to buy that rifle as a gift for my nephew. He understood the rules. A gift is not a straw purchase. He knew that, he didn't even have to ask the ATF.

He will never move as many guns as the local walmart but he understands the law.

In Michigan, a rifled pellet pistol is considered a firearm. He did the transfer for my IZH-46M. On that one he called atf to see if he had to run it across his books. The atf said no.

Even small timers are professional. Walmart is a huge company, a target of many in government and legal practice that have an agenda. They sell at a price point, their people while often good workers are in retail. I don't want to offend anyone but I doubt the sporting section is staffed by serious gun nuts. Just another person that is working a bit above minimum wage in the service sector.

Clutch
 
clutch:... He has a small building on his land to have a separate address so the clinton kitchen table dealer crap doesn't apply to him.
Uh.........what?:scrutiny:
There is ATF requirement to have a separate address.

The "No Kitchen Table Dealers Myth" just won't die.:banghead:
 
jdstallcup said:
in the past 6 months my wife and i have gone to cabelas, both times a handgun was purchased, by me for her. she did the paperwork and i paid,so was that a straw purchase? none of the sales people gave it a2nd thought.

NO. Not a straw purchase. It would have been a straw purchase if you paid for the gun, she did the paperwork AND THEN gave you the gun.
 
At the least it limits the premisses open to inspection.
For all of our compliance inspections the ATF IOI only wanted to see our home office, which is where we have the safes for our guns covered by the FFL.

If they suspect you of illegal activity they will get a warrant for everything at your home, not just your home office.
 
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