Dented Cases

[D.B. Cooper]

Just curious and I'm not up on the current practices but I always thought neck sizing was much more accurate then FL sizing...

It is. What I've recently run into, however, is that, after enough reloads (and I'm loading maximum charges), the case dimensions, particularly in the case shoulder, are changing to the point of the loaded cartridges not fully chambering and the bolt not closing on the action. From what I've learned here, the fix for that is to FL size every so often, and then return to NO sizing.

 

[AJC1]

Just curious and I'm not up on the current practices but I always thought neck sizing was much more accurate then FL sizing, I would think going into a match neck sizing would be the way to go. Also I would not throw the towel in, just get over your match, take a break and revisit the issue in the near future.

This a false premise as the ideal load is the same every time. In a neck sizing only situation the case is different every time. In the perfect world your die will very closely match your chamber, minimizing brass movement, therefore the associated trimming and work hardening.

 

[gwpercle]

D. B. Cooper ,
A long time ago my Daddy advised me that Nothing in this world is " Perfect" and he was right .
Your neck sizing untill rounds no longer chamber and then full length sizing them back is sound and has been done for years ... it may not be "perfect" but it's as Good as any way and Better than most .

Do it the way that "Feels Right" and works for you ... in reloading there are 10 different ways to do anything and it's just a matter of finding what works for You .

Good Luck ,

Gary

 

[unwashed]

This a false premise as the ideal load is the same every time. In a neck sizing only situation the case is different every time. In the perfect world your die will very closely match your chamber, minimizing brass movement, therefore the associated trimming and work hardening.

I always believed the point of neck sizing was the case is fire formed hence no movement and position in the chamber stays the same. Dies imo are to loose since they have to fit many different chambers. Bullets are at the same point everything else being equal. I get FL sizing every now and then. I know there are exception ie semi auto's but for extreme accuracy I don't see how a case wobbling around the chamber is better. IMHO. Disclaimer, never fired in a match only recreational.

 

[kmw1954]

Disclaimer, never fired in a match only recreational.

I shoot in a very competitive bench league with 19 other shooters using very custom Bench rifles and not a single one only neck sizes. That is very telling.

 

[IWAC]

It looks like you are actually "oversizing" your brass, pushing the shoulder back, so the brass doesn't fit the gun, creating excessive headspace. If your reloads are shot in only one gun, it helps to size the cartridges to that chamber. Take maybe 3-4 once-fired brass, lubricate, screw your size die so it doesn't touch the case. Run the press ram fully up, and screw the die down until it touches the case. Keep doing that till the die touches the case shoulder, then back it off maybe a half-turn. Mark the case...lipstick or smoke., screw your sizing die down, and and run the case up again. You may need another case or to relube the first one. adjust in small increments till the die gently touches the case shoulder just barely disturbing the marking material. Lock your die there, or open up just a hair if you would like a bit more rooom. Check the fit in your rifle's chamber. Does the bolt close easily? You should be good to go! If so, your brass will be correct for that rifle's chamber. There are probably a half-dozen ways to do this, but it has worked for me. I just full length resize, and anneal about every 5 reloads or so.

 

[unwashed]

I shoot in a very competitive bench league with 19 other shooters using very custom Bench rifles and not a single one only neck sizes. That is very telling.

I'd be curious to see how they compete with someone who only neck sizes. Or has it been done already?

 

[kmw1954]

I'd be curious to see how they compete with someone who only neck sizes. Or has it been done already?

They FL resize because it works. These guys consistently shoot 300yd cloverleafs. When they can no longer hold that they replace barrels. I shoot a factory model 12 Savage and an happy to hold .5MOA. So I will be listening to their opinions.

 

[JerkyFreak]

Let's put some context. Professional shooters use custom reamers when rebarreling. Chamber dimensions are so close to the sizing die dimensions so that the brass are worked very minimally.

Then there is another class of pro that use custom dies. They, or their gunsmith, purchase die blanks and then use the same reamer for both rifle and sizing die. Neck tension is varied according to bushing used a la Wilson dies.

Both methods, although technically "full length sizing" is quite far removed from us plebs reloading for our commercial rifles made to SAAMI tolerances.

 

[jmorris]

What I've recently run into, however, is that, after enough reloads (and I'm loading maximum charges), the case dimensions, particularly in the case shoulder, are changing to the point of the loaded cartridges not fully chambering and the bolt not closing on the action. From what I've learned here, the fix for that is to FL size every so often, and then return to NO sizing.

The fix is what works for you but you don’t have to set a FL die down all the way and if it’s back up off the shoulder, it is a “neck only” die even if it’s machined to size full length. Because the tapered case body isn’t in contact with anything until you lower the dies internal taper enough to contact the case.

Just don’t run the FL die down all the way down to binding on the shell holder and you will have what you want right from the start and not have to change things as you reuse the brass, on subsequent firings.

Looks like this.



Once you set the die so the sized case is still under slight compression as the bolt is closed, you eliminate the under size/blow out cycle every time you fire them, they last longer, don’t need to be trimmed every time and accurate, lots of “wins”. The main deterrent is that the ammunition might not function properly in other rifles chambered in the same caliber. Because you made the ammunition fit one right and there is a range (tolerance +/-) of acceptable chamber dimensions for a given caliber.

 

[AJC1]

The fix is what works for you but you don’t have to set a FL die down all the way and if it’s back up off the shoulder, it is a “neck only” die even if it’s machined to size full length. Because the tapered case body isn’t in contact with anything until you lower the dies internal taper enough to contact the case.

Just don’t run the FL die down all the way down to binding on the shell holder and you will have what you want right from the start and not have to change things as you reuse the brass, on subsequent firings.

Looks like this.



Once you set the die so the sized case is still under slight compression as the bolt is closed, you eliminate the under size/blow out cycle every time you fire them, they last longer, don’t need to be trimmed every time and accurate, lots of “wins”. The main deterrent is that the ammunition might not function properly in other rifles chambered in the same caliber. Because you made the ammunition fit one right and there is a range (tolerance +/-) of acceptable chamber dimensions for a given caliber.

I kinda do this and I call it two different things. I bump size in 223 and 308 in the standard way with calipers and a comparator. In cases like 45-70 I don't zize all the way but there is no shoulder to guage off of. I guess that's called partial sizing. I've been known to neck size with military rifles until they don't fit then shift to bump sizing once fully formed. So many good ways to get er done.

 

[HEAVY METAL 1]

I have used the Hornady guage to set up a .002 shoulder bump so I do a "just enough" FL resize each time. Applies to bolt action rifles only of course.
Wondering if your expander ball is rough? When I first started out reloading I used the RCBS lube pad for the case body (messy) and the supplied mica for case neck lube, it came with the case prep center--that stuff is crap! Screeching, dragging, egad! Now a dab of Imperial every few cases or the Hornady Unique lube swiped across the case mouth every few cases as suggested multiple times above and no more dragging/screeching. I am wondering if a different brand of rings would clear the vent hole on your RCBS die? If the cases are getting progressively larger dents then excess lube is accumulating inside the die. I have been placing a wad of lube inside the side of a gallon ziplock bag, rubbing the two sides together, then fill ~ 1/3 of the way with brass and shake, roll and rub them around. It is just right when one has to look closely at the brass to make sure there is indeed lube on the brass because it doesn't take much and as discussed it is easy to get too much on.

 

[BlackEagleSpeer]

Stuck cases are only a problem during the learning curve. Once you learn enough, the problem goes away.

That said, Dillon dies are the best design for those that stick cases because they have a built in stuck case “ejector”. Lee dies cost a lot less and are easier than the remaining brands to remove stuck cases.

Hornady’s one shot is the worst lube I have tried, I still have most of a can because I don’t even use it on pistol brass. Try their Unique case lube, it’s almost as good as imperial. I will say this about spray on lubes, you must let them “flash” or allow the carrier of the lube to evaporate off, leaving the lube behind. If you spray and go right into the die, they are not effective. The most effective spray lube one can buy is Dillon’s.

Damn, wish there was a cost effective way to get that from you, lol. I only use it for pistol calibers that don't need any at all (carbode dies) when everyone is asleep and i just need to resize more quietly. If Dillon's works vetter, then thanks for the tip.

 

[jmorris]

In cases like 45-70 I don't zize all the way but there is no shoulder to guage off of. I guess that's called partial sizing.

That sounds a lot like what I do for .22 Hornet, only size the portion of the neck that holds the bullet. It’s the only caliber I do that in but is the ideal method as far as accuracy goes. Why I started off with “the fix is what works”.