Vern Humphrey
Member
I'll make it simple.
The title of the thread is "Derranger recommendations?"
The vast majority of us recommend, "no."
The title of the thread is "Derranger recommendations?"
The vast majority of us recommend, "no."
(sigh)
When I was a cop I made several draws "under pressure," with one in particular standing out. But I never drew from an IWB and never had to shoot anyone. I was ready, willing and able to shoot every one of them had it been necessary. Lucky for them and me, it wasn't.
99% of the posts here give all kinds of valid reasons why the derringer is a poor choice for defense. The remaining 1% is you citing silly scenarios that could be easily handled with simple tactics and a smarter gun choice.
I encourage you to take a gun class that covers basic tactics. If you do, you'll quickly see why the derringer is ill-suited to the task.
You've still not practiced what you preached, drawing from an IWB under pressure. I still don't understand why you brought this up. Is there a point to this?
If it's silly to prepare for a fist fight turn bad,
It's silly to prepare for a mugging from 3 yards away.
I've detailed my tactics. Stating "there's a better way to do that" doesn't make it so. If you have a vastly superior method let's hear it.
All I've seen so far are exclusively long distance scenarios.
Quote:
It's silly to prepare for a mugging from 3 yards away.
This is why we practice staying on Condition Yellow -- so we notice things like people approaching us, search ahead when walking to spot places where we might be ambushed and so on.So a mugger approaching you on the street or in a parking lot is silly?
This is why we practice staying on Condition Yellow -- so we notice things like people approaching us, search ahead when walking to spot places where we might be ambushed and so on.
First of all, you'd have to find a guy who:
A. Thinks a derringer makes a good defensive weapon, and
B. Is willing to get shot repeatedly with simmunitions.
Not many of those.
I brought it up to make the point that you cannot shoot AND HIT with your palmed derringer as fast as you think you can. Predict your time from reaction to hit........then use a shot timer and then find out for sure. It's silly to say your way is faster/superior when you have no proof. If you can't do it under the "pressure" of the timer, what makes you think you can do it when your life is on the line? I've already told you that my time frame starting with hand on holstered gun is about 1/3 of a second. I'll round that up to 4/10ths. Can you beat it? If not, then my time for drawing a holstered 1911 govt model starting with hand on edge of coat is .73......can you beat that?
I don't get into fistfights and would avoid them at all costs when armed. So, yeah, its silly to "prepare for a fistfight gone bad." If you DO get into fistfights all the time, armed or not, then you have other serious issues that need to be addressed.
So a mugger approaching you on the street or in a parking lot is silly?
I've detailed my tactics. Stating "there's a better way to do that" doesn't make it so. If you have a vastly superior method let's hear it.
Ok, heres a vastly superior method: DONT GET INTO FISTFIGHTS!!!!
You're the first guy who considers 9 feet to be "long range!"
I'm glad you like your derringer so much. What are your derringer-specific practice drills? Total rounds per session? Or is it merely a talisman?
That's why you:What if the mugger wants to kick your butt first before mugging you?
I didn't say it was superior. I didn't even mention time. Did I even ask you how fast you can draw from a holster? Seriously, if you even read through my scenario, I was talking about situations when you can't draw a gun in an obvious manner.
You brought up the time factor when you asserted that your method of palming a derringer is faster to fire on target than drawing a holstered gun.
I disagree and posted the times you need to beat in order for you to prove your point.
If you want a superior method to your "palming a derringer" technique, then use a .38 or .380 in a pocket holster with your hand on it. That method works better for every one of your scenarios.
You may think it is "discrete" and that the gun is hidden from view, but you have still drawn your gun. You cannot draw simply because you "feel trouble is coming".You can discretely draw and hide it in your hand if you feel trouble is coming and you want to draw a gun, but keep still keep it hidden from view.
Size. If you've seen or been in a fight, it starts at conversation range and begins with talk.
You have your hands in your pocket for a few seconds, draw and palm the gun, completely innocuous. If a fight breaks out, you already have the gun out
You brought up the time factor when you asserted that your method of palming a derringer is faster to fire on target than drawing a holstered gun.
I disagree and posted the times you need to beat in order for you to prove your point.
How often has that happened to you?
This implies that the derringer palmed in your hand is faster firing a shot on target than drawing a gun from holster or pocket. Prove it.
I'm still anxiously awaiting your derringer shooting drills.....you DO have some, don't you? Or is all this just speculative bluster on your part?
I've had some tense conversations, but they ended peacefully.
Although, I've seen it happen to others.
Are you questioning that fights tend start at conversation range or that it begins with talk?
I'll let you know that my palm grip to fire grip is roughly .4 s.
I didn't want this to get into a pissing match over fractions of a second, because it's not very important in my scenarios.
I do, (have derringer range drills) but I am trying my hardest to keep this discussion on topic.
Most of us would opt for pocket carry of a more effective weapon--perhaps a revolver that can be fired from the pocket of a jacket.Posted by Quatin: I've repeatedly mentioned that the situations for mouse guns are situations where you can't or don't want to be obviously drawing a gun.
If you can lawfully have a derringer drawn and in your hand, you can lawfully have a Glock drawn and in your hand.Having a gun in your hand has other advantages in my scenarios that I've already mentioned.
This is why I didn't want to post it, you're trying to make this a pissing match over fractions of a second on a subject that has little impact on the present topic.Did you draw and palm your derringer? I normally wouldn't ask, but you said you "practice for fist fights gone bad."
Seen what? Where a conversation ended up with someone getting killed?
I'm questioning the plausibility and wisdom of getting into a conversation with someone then, while talking to them, legimately believe that you might have to KILL this guy before he kills you in the next few seconds. Then, instead of doing any number of smarter things, you stay within "conversation distance" while thinking you can surreptitiously do a pocket draw and possibly cock the derringer without this hostile-almost-ready-to-kill-you person noticing from 2-3 feet away.
Is this "palm grip" different from "palming the derringer so they can't see it" that you described? If so, what's different? If not, and you have the gun completely enclosed in your closed fist, then I'd have to see that .4 to believe it.
Your key scenario starts from 2-3 feet away. Speed is critical and fractions of a second DO matter.......a LOT.
This certainly would be part of the topic, since you think the derringer is such a capable defense arm.
This is why I didn't want to post it, you're trying to make this a pissing match over fractions of a second on a subject that has little impact on the present topic.
I'm going to describe a scene I saw that I loosely based my scenario off of. A guy, may have been kicked out of a nearby club, approaches a couple and said "you parked in my spot." The other guy says "I don't know what you're talking about". A back and forth develops as the couple tries to walk away. The bar guy follows and continues yelling the accusation. Bar guy waits till he turns around and hits him in the back of the head, knocking him down. He continues punching the victim on the ground for a bit then runs away. No one was seriously hurt, but fist fights can get deadly. All of this happened in minutes.
That's the key question -- up until the guy hit him, there was no justifiable reason to draw, let alone fire.So when should he have "palmed" his derringer? (let's presume he had one). When should he have shot him?
Right. So it didn't matter what kind of gun he had. The outcome was determined not by his weaponry, but by his bad tactics.He shouldn't have turned his back on the guy, wearing a gun or not.
Again, technically yes, practically no. The difference of a fraction of second makes no viable impact especially in relative to the other advantages such as having use of both arms.But it has impact on the viability of your "tactic"
So when should he have "palmed" his derringer? (let's presume he had one). When should he have shot him?
He shouldn't have turned his back on the guy, wearing a gun or not.
I'm questioning the plausibility and wisdom of getting into a conversation with someone then, while talking to them, legimately believe that you might have to KILL this guy before he kills you in the next few seconds. Then, instead of doing any number of smarter things, you stay within "conversation distance" while thinking you can surreptitiously do a pocket draw and possibly cock the derringer without this hostile-almost-ready-to-kill-you person noticing from 2-3 feet away.