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Did secret service accidentally fire fatal shot to JFK's head

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by jeil, Apr 5, 2006.

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  1. jeil

    jeil Member

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    I picked up a used book, Mortal Error, by Bonar Menninger. The thoughts in the book came from a gun shop owner, Howard Donahue, who had also been one of the riflemen in an early tv reenactment/test of the Kennedy shooting.

    Donahue says that the full metal jacket bullet fired by Oswald that went through Kennedy's neck and then Connelly acted like a full metal jacket bullet should have, but that the shot to Kennedy's head was not from a full metal jacket bullet. He says that the head shot was more likely from a .223 round with a thin jacket that allowed the round to blow up Kennedy's head like it did, which would not have happened with the full metal jacket round. (Did some experiments on pigs heads to prove his point.) He went through a lot of trajectory analysis that showed that the round came from directly behind Kennedy, and that the Secret Service agent standing in the car had an AR-15 in his hand. He thinks the agent lost his balance in all the excitement generated from the Oswald shot, and fired his AR-15 rifle accidentally, and that the cover up was not to hide a second assassin, but the mistake of the Secret Service.

    There is also a website that used computers to recreate the shooting and they came to the conclusion that one bullet went through Kennedy and Connelly (the Oswald shot) and that the head shot to Kennedy appears to have come from behind, but then they dismiss the evidence of the second shot from behind because they can't believe it. This supports Donahue's conclusion.

    http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/concl.htm

    Interesting stuff and a different twist.
     
  2. LOST SOUL

    LOST SOUL Member

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    Wow, that was interesting and it makes you think?
     
  3. ID_shooting

    ID_shooting Member

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    "Wow, that was interesting and it makes you think?"

    ...about buying stock in tin-foil companies :scrutiny:
     
  4. ebd10

    ebd10 Member

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    I read Mortal Error when it came out and found it to be the most plausible of all of the theories that came out of the JFK assassination. All of the other theories required conspiracies of monumental proportions, and it's hard to believe that anyone in government would keep their mouth shut when revealing thetruth might gain them votes, power, prestige, or a book deal.

    Of course, if you go by what Oliver Stone put forth in his movie, the conspiracy involved everyone except JFK and Oliver Stone.

    The rest of the theories involving Cuba, the Mafia, the CIA, and the Military Industrial complex are just silly.
     
  5. Rockrivr1

    Rockrivr1 Member

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    As I was growing up I always had heard about the conspiracy theorys. I know that Oliver Stone's rendition has a lot of flaws, except the part where Kevin Costner is in the court describing the bullet tragectories. If even half of what was covered in the movie was actually passed to the public, people must have been really dumb back then to believe it.
     
  6. carnaby

    carnaby Member

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    Sounds plausable. On the other hand, where can I get some of this stock? :)
     
  7. Creeping Incrementalism

    Creeping Incrementalism Member

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    It has been conclusively proven that Oswald shot Kennedy. It's open and shut, slam-dunk, as provable as it gets without the conspirator admitting to it. Oswald was an outstanding shot, scoring near-perfect in long range rapid fire in the Corps, he had enough time to shoot, the shot wasn't particularly far, the target wasn't moving very fast, trajectories and forensics all match perfectly with Oswald being the sole shooter, and every consipiracy theory is either conclusively wrong, or depends on one expert that is completely at odds with conventional widsow and every other expert. Furthermore, Oswald was smirking during his "perp walk", as is captured on film.

    Stone's theory on bullet trajectories is stupidly wrong. He put the entrance and exit holes in the right places, and the people in the wrong places, thus making it look like the bullets turned in mid-air.

    The head exploded because brain tissue reacts differently than muscle and other tissue. Muscle bends, brain matter is destroyed, per Fackler. So brain tissue would separate and go flying, while muscle would stay attached.
     
  8. sturmruger

    sturmruger Member

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    They just did a special about the Kennedy assasination on one of the cable channels. It made me a believer that it happened exactly as they say. They recreated the shot perfectly even using some of the same ammo. I know everyone hates the lone gunmen theory but that is what they proved.
     
  9. usp9

    usp9 Member

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    Three questions...

    1) Did the Secret Service have any AR15s in 1963? I think not.

    2) Did any S.S. agent report a shot fired all day? No.

    3) Has it been proven over and over again that Oswald did it? Yes.

    It is a shame so many people have tried to make money off of a man's murder. It is also a shame that so many gullible, naive people "feed" these shameless creeps.
     
  10. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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  11. Jhorn

    Jhorn Member

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    It was interesting that when Conally died there was a request to remove the bullet that was still in him but the family refused...get the tin foil ready!
     
  12. BigFatKen

    BigFatKen Member

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    logic erorr

    The Warren commision fell for this one;

    If the best Marines can load and fire in 2.3 sec then 2.3x3=6.9 sec which is greater than 5.6 sec, then there must be a second shooter.
    The correct answer is load one round into the chamber and wait. Then you only need to re-load two times. or 4.6 sec for a Marine. 5.6sec for Oswald.

    About right.
     
  13. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    The Secret Service shot Kennedy, Oswald took out the twin towers... Turns out Jack Ruby didn't really shoot him.

    Oswald faked his own death and went into hiding to prepare for 9/11.

    I swear it's true, I read it on the Internet.
     
  14. Just_a_dude_with_a_gun

    Just_a_dude_with_a_gun Member

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    LOL... I've got a carcano, and I'll tell you it's one fast handling carbine, and Oswald did it.

    Conspiracies involve secrets. Secrets become simply hushed conversation when more than on person knows.
     
  15. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Several things overlooked by Stone in JFK reenactment in the
    courtroom: John F. Kennedy and John Connally were not sitting
    in equal heighth chairs in a courtroom. John and Jackie Kennedy
    were seated in the touring seat of the limo, elevated at least
    three inches higher than John and Nelly Connally, who were seated
    in "jump seats" inset from the doors by about five inches. The first
    shot, which missed, alerted Connally and he turned to his right. The
    second shot occurred at a point corresponding to frames 223, 224
    of the Zapruder film, which clearly show Connally lower than
    Kennedy and turned to the right. The bullet holes as described
    by measurements recorded on the autopsy reports do indeed
    line up with the positions recreated from the limo seating and
    the Zapruder film. As far as the so-called "pristine magic bullet"
    appearnace goes, the 6.5mm 160grain FMJ at ~2000 fps does
    penetrate deeply in consistent media and remain relatively intact:
    [​IMG]
    On the head shot, the 6.5 160 FMJ striking bone first would tend
    to yaw, pinch in the thin middle and break into a nose section
    and tail section. Most conspiracy theories ignore the nose and tail
    bullet fragments found in the front floorboard of the limo. The
    explosion of the front side of Kenndy's head is consistent with an
    exit wound, not an entry wound.

    The theory that Kennedy was accidentally shot by a Secret Service
    agent's .223 was put to rest years ago by comparison of photos that
    showed the agent was not in line of fire of the head wound and
    no witnesses to a gunshot from the position Sercret Service agents.
     

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  16. cavman

    cavman Member

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    Cop's radio transmission?

    Think I remember about a month or so back that a motorcycle cop's radio was recently analyzed. It was said that it was switched 'on' and its trasmission was then being recorded back at base.

    The recording was then compared to the Zagruder (the Kennedy assassination film) film and the analyzers claim that there is a distinct "pop" right as the cop cruises by the grassy knoll.

    The claim, therefore, is that there was indeed a second shooter and that the 'pop' was the report of a shot being fired.

    Did anyone else catch this?

    cavman
     
  17. Dravur

    Dravur Member

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    Ok, I admit it

    Yep, I did it. I was the second gunman. I wasnt even born until a year after the event, but I did it. Yep, Aliens were involved... and Bigfoot. The Loch Ness monster planned it. Kevin Costner did it too. He was behind the grassy knoll. Leona Helmsley rode by on her broom.

    Wow, I need to buy some tinfoil stock. Why is it, that someone can come up with some bizarre claim that maybe Fidel Castro personally flew up to Dallas and personally shot Kennedy. Why do we give these knuckle draggers any credibility. Look, here is a simple premise. The Government has never been very good at keeping secrets. If they are involved, someone is going to yak about it.

    Now, lets get this straight. There are no aliens at Area 51. There was a lone gunman that killed Kennedy. The moon landings were not faked. The earth really is round. Your Aunt Millie is not a space alien from the planet Moog. Woody Allen is really human. I know that last one was hard to swallow. Now, take off the tinfoil hat, move back from the Nevada Desert and join society again.

    Ummmm, take a bath first, though.

    Im out
     
  18. kfranz

    kfranz Member

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    There is a great deal of evidence outside the wounds suffered that point to multiple shooters. COULD Oswald have done it alone? Sure. Does the majority of the evidence support that? No.

    None of the evidence supports a "who did it". What happened is not in question. "Who" did it is merely speculation.
     
  19. Rockrivr1

    Rockrivr1 Member

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    Wait, no aliens at Area 51??!?!?!?!?!?!?!????!?!?! You must be mistaken!

    Ok here comes a big can of worms. Anyone who thinks we are alone in this great big universe must think mighty highly of the human race. No way, now how we are the only intelligent (saying that with a grain of salt) species anywhere.

    Ok, yes way off topic. Not to mention I'm ducking for cover.
     
  20. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

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    I know I'm not suppose to but...

    [​IMG]



    I've seen recreations that show a not-so-skilled shooter fire as many shots as Oswald supposedly did and score hits. All in the same amount of time. The distance from the book depository to where car was, wasn't that far of a shot. An average to above average shooter with a little practice on a bolt gun could probably do the same.


    The majority of the "conspiracy" is created by the notion that the shots were extremely difficult and that the time frame nearly impossible. According to what standard?
     
  21. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    Yes. In fact there is a photo showing an agent just behind Kennedy with an AR15. He is holding it by the grip, having just pulled it from where he had it hidden, and he isn't exhibiting the best gun handling you ever saw.

    That's correct.
    That's also correct.
     
  22. BryanP

    BryanP Member

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    No.

    Next question.
     
  23. hillbilly

    hillbilly Member

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    Get yourself a DVD or video copy of the Discovery Channel program "Beyond the Magic Bullet."

    They do a very scientific re-enactment of the shooting, with ballistics gel dummies complete with synthetic bones, from a tower representing the Schoolbook Depository, with a Carcano.

    They scientifically account for the most widely known conspiracy theories.

    They even replicate, twice, the same wounds found on Connolly and JFK.

    They wind up with almost undeformed bullets.

    It's all there.

    Game. Set. Match.

    hillbilly
     
  24. ball3006

    ball3006 Member

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    If the Secret Service shot Kennedy....

    Would it still be a secret? Probably. I watched all the TV coverage that day and for a few days later. There was a scene where the camera was panned to the grassy knoll and in the sunlight there was a thin cloud of smoke, like when you shoot. The sun was behind the cloud, otherwise it would not be visable. I have never seen that scene since..........chris3
     
  25. carnaby

    carnaby Member

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    One question, what was Oswalds motive? :confused:

    Why did Ruby shoot him? That was pretty stupid, we never got to get to the bottom of the mess. Convenient.
     
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