Different AR calibers

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tommy.duncan

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I have several AR rifles in 5.56 and 1 in 9mm. I have been looking into getting into a larger caliber. I started looking at the 458 socom, $2.50 per round, to expensive for range play. The 300 blackout (300 whisper) looks good. What about the 6.8, or even getting one in 308.
Can anyone give any help picking out a alternate AR15 caliber?
Thanks
 
Since you already have ARs in 5.56 and 9mm, the only other moderately priced caliber is 22LR. As you know 300 BLK and 6.8 SPC is expensive and hard to find. You can buy 308 ammo for under $1 a round but the AR-10 is much larger than standard ARs.
 
.308 means an AR-10. IHMO get. 6.8 SPC for hunting deer etc. The .300 BLK is really intriguing, useful for hogs, HD/SD, and short range deer, great for plinking, it's my next build. With cast bullets it's as cheap as .22 LR to shoot :what:. If you are really serious about longer range hunting check out 6.5 Grendel. Dedicated varmint hunters like 6mm/.223 or even .25/.223 (DTI). The great thing about the AR platform is you can take P-dogs with a .204 Ruger swap uppers and hammer hogs with .458 socom in seconds!
 
The best general purpose round in a standard AR15 is the 6.8spc. If you are willing to order ammo online you can get good quality, accurate PPU for $13.50/box and good hunting rounds for around $17-$20/box. You can find it in most larger stores if you're willing to pay a bit more. It will work well on deer size game out around 350m with the right bullets, farther than most shots will be taken. The 300blk really only makes sense if you have a suppressor. In it's supersonic form it doesn't have much going for it.
 
If you handload, the 300 Blk is about as cheap as centerfire rifle cartridges come- assuming your loading up once fired 5.56 brass that's been converted. Not to mention, the only unique part is the barrel, so you can use standard AR-15 mags, receiver, bolt and carrier, etc. I like the 6.8 and have one of those too, but brass availability has been hit or miss until recently.
 
If you dont reload, stick with what you have. If you dont mind reloading, I can shoot my 458 socom for less than I can buy factory 9mm.
 
I looked at both and chose the 6.8, as I wanted to hunt out to 300 yards
(Texas boars)

There is an awesome 6.8 120g SST bullet from Hornady that is a major thumper out to 275 plus yards (1k ft/lbs)

It clobbers the piggies

If you reload (many people are claiming 10 plus reloads on their 6.8 brass)
You can do it on the cheap.

The brass can be had relatively cheap from LWRC, for reloading from their 40k rifle order testing for 2 Middle East armies.

The 300 blk seems like a decent choice as well.

But....... Most people choose to reload with the 300 and the 6.8

Factory bullets still aren't cheap enough IMHO

Good luck
 
I built a 300 Blk because I already had a stock of .30 cal bullets and wanted to use my AR for deer. I have had good performance with it on SC deer. You can get into the 300 with just a barrel change.
 
I have been looking into getting into a larger caliber.

Also, look at the 6.5 Grendel.

To get the best prices, look into reloading. Factory ammunition is going to be expensive.

I know you are looking for larger caliber cartridges but look at 204 Ruger or 17 Remington. They are a hoot to shoot in an AR-15 platform.
 
^^ x2 on the 6.5 Grendel. I got one up and running a couple of weeks ago. I've had it to the range twice now. It will be my new deer rifle and will do equally well for varmints. The BC of those 6.5mm bullets is really nice.....doesn't bleed energy down range like those plump little .308 bullets do. :D Still trying to determine if the felt recoil is any more than my M&P15. 2nd trip to the range and I have 95 gr varmint hand oads doing 2910 FPS with less than a .7" 5 shot group at 100 yds. Once I get some more time, I'll shrink that down some more.

65grendel15.jpg


The 6.5 Grendel is 2nd from the left, between the .223 Rem and the .308 Win. IMO, it is a reloader's cartridge for sure!

65grendel-14.jpg
 
the only other moderately priced caliber is 22LR

Not true, 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 is usually a bit cheaper than the cheapest 5.56 you can find.

For range play the potential 7.62x39 magazine issues (newer ones have seemed better than what I first got years ago) with other than FMJ ammo won't really matter.
 
As a reloader I vote for the 300 blackout.
Cheap and easy to load, and fun to shoot. All you need is a bit of powder,(16.2 gr for 300 compared to 26.2 for .223) a small rifle primer and some 30 cal projectiles which are easy to find, If you don't reload and purchase all new ammo, better look somewhere else. I would steer clear of 7.62.39 in an AR platform, not only are magazines proclamation it takes a much different bolt to run the .762 casing, but the .545x .39 is a good option as long as the 545 ammo doesn't dry up.
 
If you don't mind stepping up in action and receiver size I'd say go 308. Generally available, efficient at killing, and not too expensive. This would be *my* top choice.

If *I* wanted a bigger round to shoot in a standard ar15 than 223/556 I'd opt for 1) 6.8 spc or 2) 7.62x39. Reason being is availability in my area. 6.8 ammo was on the shelf of the local Wallyworld 98% of the time during the height of the panic. x39 Winchester was there about 50% of the time.
 
The real question is what are you going to shoot with the larger bullet? And, how far?

Cartridges are designed for specific ranges and deliver specific foot pounds of force out the the effective range. They don't easily substitute for each other - they exist for different purposes as much as .22 and .50 BMG have different uses.

.300BO is a .30 bullet in the 5.56 case, it's either for short range suppressed use in a short NFA barrel, or slightly longer range use supersonic for hunting. The ballistics are similar to .30-30, or 7.62x39, just less.

7.62x39 is another choice, longer ranged than .300BO but the trajectory still has a lot of drop toward the end.

6.8SPC lengthens and flattens the trajectory out past 350m, and carries 50% more power than 5.56, which is why it's so popular as a hunting round. It's not a military surplus load, so those who whine about it being pricey and hard to get are just letting you know it's not for them. It's no more expensive than hunting loads for ANY of these others, because hunting ammo ISN'T cheap military surplus. That doesn't mean they are $2.50 a round, or even $4 like .50BMG. And military surplus or inexpensive import is still rumored to be just around the corner - better now to reload, which for a $200 investment in equipment returns ammo under .50c a round. And you get to load it to SPCII spec, not the lower SAMMI spec still used by the makers. Win win.

And 6.5 has about the longest range of all, which is was designed to do as a competition round. It's based off the PPC case, derived from the X39 cartridges. Long range shooters prefer the short stubby case because it leaves a lot of room for a long bullet in the M16 magazine, and long distance shooters prefer long bullets because they typically have more retained energy do to a better shape. The short case, however, restricts the amount of powder capacity, although it has a better combustion shape to push the bullet. Nonetheless, to get all the power out of the slower burning powder that must be used, a longer barrel is needed. And that combination means that in a much shorter barrel, a lot more power is lost per inch than 6.8 with it's narrow case, fast powder, and short bullets. 6.8 was designed for an issue 14.5 barrel, we get a bit more because most shoot a NFA legal 16" barrel.

Different cartridges, different ranges and different power levels. You get to choose which is optimal for each situation - but none have dirt cheap surplus or import ammo just waiting in pallet loads to buy. That is always something that some shooters like to toss into the conversation, but if you are choosing something different than issue to shoot, you'd have to accept it even with hunting loads for 5.56. Milsurp full metal jacket isn't usually allowed for hunting anyway.

Fit the cartridge to what you intend to do, and you will get good results. "Bigger" is just a bit vague.
 
Thanks for all the great information.
I am trying to get a larger caliber AR for some target and a little hunting. I have looked into 4 or 5 different calibers and they all have advantages and disadvantages. I have been leaning to the 300 blackout, but the 6.5 and 6.8 are good choices too!
I usually don't think of 7.62x39 as an AR round, I have to add that into my decision.
 
I've got 5.7; 9mm & 7.62x39 ...

I keep thinking I'll get a 22 upper but I've got a SiG-522 SBR that fills that nitch ... and back when the 5.45x39 was really cheap I almost bought an upper & few cases of that just to stick back for a rainy day, but I've already got my Turkish Mauser & 2 cases of Turkish 8mm for that.
 
Only other caliber I've ever remained interested in after doing much reading and research on the topic is the 6.8 SPCII. Outperforms .223/5.56 in every way except cheap crap plinking ammo. It can do subsonic/suppressed, short barrel, long barrel, has great industry support and great selection of ammo for both hunting and target shooting.

.300 whisper/blackout is a joke of a round. If you don't plan on going suppressed it is a complete waste and outperformed by nearly anything else. Even then, you've already got a 9mm so there really is no point. If it wasn't for the fact that only a different barrel is needed to shoot this round it would have died long ago. Industry support exists only because the parts are already being made for .223/5.56 ARs minus the barrels. Factory ammo prices are a joke as well.

6.5 grendel is a good round if you're looking to squeeze absolute maximum possible distance out of the ar15 platform (typically at the expense of a longer barrel than the other two to do so, 24" is the test barrel length for Hornady for example). After reading many reloading threads though, I don't believe it's long range reign still exists. Industry support fort for it (ammo/bullet selection at the very least) seems to have finally woken up though, which is a definate plus.
 
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.300 whisper/blackout is a joke of a round. If you don't plan on going suppressed it is a complete waste and outperformed by nearly anything else. Even then, you've already got a 9mm so there really is no point. If it wasn't for the fact that only a different barrel is needed to shoot this round it would have died long ago. Industry support exists only because the parts are already being made for .223/5.56 ARs minus the barrels. Factory ammo prices are a joke as well.

Are you serious?? :rolleyes:

Have you even tried shooting 300BLK, or done any real research on the caliber?

Most people who discount the round don't understand its purpose and usability. Obviously its not a dead caliber because it is quite versatile and useful within its intended purpose. Its also SAAMI approved which is why it has more support than other wildcat rounds.

Short and sweet: Its a .30Caliber option to the AR15 that works reliably suppressed and unsuppressed use, in short and standard length barrels, and easily reloadable, and uses all standard AR15 parts except the barrel.

6.5, 6.8, 458Socom, 450Bushmaster, etc are not cheap and available rounds either if price was a consideration.

-----

For the OP, I would suggest 6.8SPC.
 
Are you serious?? :rolleyes:

Have you even tried shooting 300BLK, or done any real research on the caliber?

Most people who discount the round don't understand its purpose and usability. Obviously its not a dead caliber because it is quite versatile and useful within its intended purpose. Its also SAAMI approved which is why it has more support than other wildcat rounds.

Short and sweet: Its a .30Caliber option to the AR15 that works reliably suppressed and unsuppressed use, in short and standard length barrels, and easily reloadable, and uses all standard AR15 parts except the barrel.

6.5, 6.8, 458Socom, 450Bushmaster, etc are not cheap and available rounds either if price was a consideration.

-----

For the OP, I would suggest 6.8SPC.
What he said is spot on. He stated "If you don't plan on going suppressed..." it's not worthwhile. You said "useful within its intended purpose" which is shooting heavy 30cal bullets subsonic and suppressed. Once you get outside of that use it pretty much falls flat on its face. To realistically compare supersonic performance of the 300blk to a round designed from to be a supersonic round is just wishful thinking at best.

For factory ammo, gunbot.net has the cheapest 6.8spc at $0.64/rd, and 300blk at $0.71/rd. Both loadings are very available on the market.
 
Looking past the Caliber of the Month club - which all the ones mentioned have gone thru - it comes down to where each seems to be positioned in use by owners.

.300BO was invented in the early days of three gun to get around the rules. It was required to use a .30 bullet, and it was because the rulemakers in those days despised the M16 and didn't want it in competition at all. Men were supposed to use "battle rifles" in combat, not poodle shooters. So some imaginative folks wildcatted the .30 by necking out the .223 case and tried it. The rule makers shot it down, but they didn't go away, and eventually the AR was allowed in competition.

It now RULES competition - mostly in 5.56. You can shoot any rifle you want under the rules, and many have tried, but if you want to rank in the top 10% of what amounts to both a precision shooting and timed competition, you shoot the AR15.

Most shoot 5.56 surplus because it's cheap, others attempt to make do with an AK and are hurt less by the ammo as much as the primitive and difficult ergonomics. The ones who get good at it do well. Those with less skills are helped by the AR because it's easier to shoot with less practice - one of the major reasons it's a service rifle and it gets ignored a lot. Look at the modern competitors, tho, and they copy most of the control locations, and for good reason.

As for .300BO, tho, it didn't make the grade. It was a wildcat until AAC introduced it with Remington's oversight, and they were pumping it for a suppressed round precisely because it does well. The larger bullet mass carries more power from a short barrel suppressed than 5.56 does. It's been a major point of discussion the M4 has too short a barrel and doesn't have the M16's long range ability or power from the 5.5" shorter barrel. A .30 cal bullet helps bring back that power in short range applications.

Very few to none appear in three gun circles, tho. Even supersonic, the round costs more than surplus, which is a strike against it for those who practice heavily, and the trajectory is a looper with a lot more practice needed at longer ranges. The 5.56 shoots flatter, less holdover is needed, therefore it delivers more hits on paper with a clock.

Because of those two issues, you won't see many using the other calibers, except x39, which seems to be more a matter of honor than practicality. It's subject to a lot of trajectory drop, too. That makes it an also ran in those circles.

So, at least in competitive circles, .300BO and the others aren't worth the effort. When you are shooting LIVE targets in the field, tho, things are different. And then it goes right back to what target at what range. Again, you pick the cartridge for what you will be doing - not because it's cool or the caliber of the month. Therefore, for LIVE targets, you choose the cartridge that delivers sufficient force as far as you need to bring down a game animal humanely and prevent it's loss or suffering. Any of the cartridges will do it, but each cartridge has it's maximum effective range. Considering the limits of the loaded cartridge length in the AR15 magazine, you can either make the bullet bigger, which shortens the range, or make the bullet faster, which usually lengthens the range. You can't make it both bigger and faster, tho, as there is an offset and the total ballistics in the maximum length of the loaded round prevent it. Plus, the bolt face of the AR won't allow a larger diameter case past a certain limit. At some point you must move to the AR10.

In this conversation, it would then boil down to what the longest range shot might potentially be assuming a 150 pound animal. It's why .300BO and 7.62x39 are used under 250m, 6.8SPC out to 350m, and 6.5 out past 500m. That makes the first two potential close range rounds, the middle an all around performer, and the last a great long distance shooter. That is their optimal use, but in a lot of circumstances, they do ok. You just can't exceed their ability, and have to put up with their disadvantages to get the improved performance they are biased to have.

Most importantly, there is no "best," as they can't do exactly the same thing, so it's always an apples and oranges comparison with no winner overall. Can't be.
 
I have a few AR's and my choices were .223, 6.5 Grendel, .300 Blackout, .308 and .50 Beowulf. These calibers serve all my wants and needs in the AR platform. Ammo cost was not a concern for me so much since I hand load for all of them. I can say I find all of them to be very nice in their own nitch.
 
What he said is spot on. He stated "If you don't plan on going suppressed..." it's not worthwhile. You said "useful within its intended purpose" which is shooting heavy 30cal bullets subsonic and suppressed. Once you get outside of that use it pretty much falls flat on its face.

Not really, .300Blk is basically 7.62x35 so if you like to reload, with 120gr-130gr bullets ts a pretty close duplicate of the 7.62x39 (which is not so great for reloading since most ammo for it is steel cased and you have two primer sizes to deal with when you do find Boxer brass cased 7.62x39).

So if you like to reload and worry about the 7.62x39 AR magazine issues, its a good alternative with the advantage of not needing a new bolt and magazines if you already have 5.56, and cases are made from cheap and easy to find 5.56 brass.
 
The best general purpose round in a standard AR15 is the 6.8spc.
So long as you are limited to FMJ you are absolutely correct. The 6.8 was a compromise between the trajectory of the 6.5mm prototypes and the lethality of the 7mm prototypes.

For civilian use with modern expanding bullets, I would give that crown to the Grendel.

Mike
 
Arizona_Mike said:
So long as you are*limited to FMJ*you are absolutely correct. The 6.8 was a compromise between the trajectory of the 6.5mm prototypes and the lethality of the 7mm prototypes.

For civilian use with modern expanding bullets, I would give that crown to the Grendel.


Hornady, Nosler, Federal, Silver State Armory (Nosler now?) and Barnes' (to name a few) 6.8 factory offerings are only FMJs?

I know Sellier and Bellot makes FMJ labelled 6.8 ammo though.
 
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