Joshboyfutre
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Will the load I have for 168 grain Sierra matchking shoot the same for 168 grain hornady match? As long as the boy is 168 grain bthp does it matter what maker for accuracy or will I get a change in point of impact?
Different bullet maker but the same weight, same accuracy?
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GarySTL
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Is the ballistic coefficient the same for both bullets? That has an effect.
LocoGringo
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Not exactly the same situation, but I load 175 SMK for match ammo and Hornady 178 Amax for "hunting" ammo in .308 and there is very little difference in point of aim/point of impact/zero for the 2. The SMK is slightly tighter in group size, but they use the exact same powder quantities, OAL, brass and primer.
Really only 1 way to answer your question is to load 'em up and chooooot 'em.
Really only 1 way to answer your question is to load 'em up and chooooot 'em.
witchhunter
Member
You may or may not see any difference. The only way to verify is to load and try. They may not even be close to the same accuracy or POI, depending on the situation.
Grumulkin
Member
Years ago, I compared the accuracy of Sierra, Hornady and Nosler 168 gr. BTHP match bullets and Sierra was the clear winner. I've never tried Hornady BTHP match bullets since then but I think Nosler match bullets are now every bit the equal of the Siarras. I have tried other configurations of Hornady bullets and they're very good so perhaps their BTHP match bullets have improved.
Both makes have the same accuracy spec; 1 inch at 200 yards; maximum test group size in their indoor 200-yard test ranges. Good lots of them will test smaller. Both use 10-shot groups as far as I know. You may or may not see a difference. Shoot at least 25 shots with each.
Ballistic coefficient has no effect on basic accuracy. There's always a tiny spread in any bullet's BC; they are not all perfectly balanced when the leave the barrel and the more perfect ones have less drag than the others. A 1% or less spread in BC for match bullets is pretty good. Sierra put info on this in their reloading manuals some years ago. Match bullets have more consistent BC's than hunting ones. Best way to measure BC is timing the bullets between two points and comparing entry and exit velocities across that range band.
Ballistic coefficient has no effect on basic accuracy. There's always a tiny spread in any bullet's BC; they are not all perfectly balanced when the leave the barrel and the more perfect ones have less drag than the others. A 1% or less spread in BC for match bullets is pretty good. Sierra put info on this in their reloading manuals some years ago. Match bullets have more consistent BC's than hunting ones. Best way to measure BC is timing the bullets between two points and comparing entry and exit velocities across that range band.
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ArchAngelCD
Member.
I have been shooting 168gr match bullets from both Sierra and Hornady in the 30-06 for many years and have never been able to see a difference in accuracy using the same charge and OAL. The only difference I see is in the price. In fact, with a slightly different charge weight the 168gr Nosler Custom Competition bullets are very accurate too.
Bullets of the same weight can be very different between different manufacturers; they can be very similar. You just have to shoot them and see. The shape can be different. Some will have more surface in contact with the barrel than others resulting in different pressures and muzzle velocity even with the same powder charge. Some brands use a harder or softer copper jacket that will change the pressure inside the barrel.
I've never used either bullet in question, but based on previous responses it appears that there will be very little difference between these. That doesn't mean another 168 gr bullet will do the same.
At close range BC won't make any real difference in point of impact. But if you start zeroing farther than 100 yards it can. This target shows 200 yard groups with 3 different loads. The top group is with 150 gr Barnes bullets @ 3010 fps. The bottom group is 165 gr Hornady Interlocks with the one in the middle 165 gr Nosler Accubonds. Both leave my muzzle at 2880 fps. The Noslers have a much better BC and the difference in point of impact is starting to show at only 200 yards. The Nosler bullets were more accurate, but not because of better BC's. They are just more accurate in my rifle, better BC was just coincidence.
I've never used either bullet in question, but based on previous responses it appears that there will be very little difference between these. That doesn't mean another 168 gr bullet will do the same.
At close range BC won't make any real difference in point of impact. But if you start zeroing farther than 100 yards it can. This target shows 200 yard groups with 3 different loads. The top group is with 150 gr Barnes bullets @ 3010 fps. The bottom group is 165 gr Hornady Interlocks with the one in the middle 165 gr Nosler Accubonds. Both leave my muzzle at 2880 fps. The Noslers have a much better BC and the difference in point of impact is starting to show at only 200 yards. The Nosler bullets were more accurate, but not because of better BC's. They are just more accurate in my rifle, better BC was just coincidence.
FROGO207
Member
Reloading is part science and part black magic. I have found in some firearms the difference can not be detected by me using different brands of bullets with the same weight and similar shape. In a different firearm they will not even shoot remotely alike at a reasonable distance. The gliding metal *might* make a huge difference in some firearms. I have Savage 270 bolt that only likes Sierra bullets, no matter the weight or shape it will shoot them better than any other brand with all the other parts of the load being the same. Go figure. I have other rifles that will eat anything remotely the same with slightly different weights even and I cannot tell what bullet I just shot. As stated the best thing is to try a box and see if you like them. For my part when hunting I use Remington Cor Lokt bullets whenever I can as the range to game around here is usually 50 to 100 YDS or less and it seems a waste to use a super expensive bullet for that. If I had to make longer shots the ammo would be crafted a bit differently. Oddly I often load my target ammo with a better bullet though.
YMMV
YMMVThis excellent comment:
Arsenal's making that famous 30 caliber 173-gr. FMJBT match bullet typically had 3 or 4 bullet making machines in a row producing them. Which means their forming dies at each station were not exactly the same. Therefore, neither were the bullets. No matter to the management; they would put the output of all machines into the same lot of bullets to be loaded in a given run of match ammo. All of which adds up to the most accurate lots, National Match ones, would shoot a bit less than 2 MOA at 600 yards. But bullets from the most precise production line would shoot 1 MOA at worst. I've suspected this for years having sorted the ammo from one lot of 7.62 NATO M118 match ammo into 3 or 4 different batches based on the tiny marks on bullets left there from their jacket forming dies. It was confirmed not too long ago by a retired employee from one of the arsenals as well as at a proving ground. No wonder the military teams pulled bullets from M118 arsenal ammo then replaced them with Sierra's.
Lapua has been known to put four different production lots of bullets into a retail lot. Using a 50X optical comparator, the bullets would appear 15 inches in diameter on the screen. Four different ogive shapes were observed. Evidence four different cherry mills were used making the bullet forming dies to shape them.
I believe Sierra and Berger put all bullets from a given production line in the same lot for retail. If any tool is changed, a new lot number's assigned bullets made with the new configuration. But they know that some lots of jacket material form more consistently dimension wils than other lots. Sierra had a problem getting good jacket material from Olin back in the 70's or 80's and ended up getting better copper from Germany. Sierra used to package super accurate bullets into plain cardboard boxes; 1000 in each, then sell them at big rifle matches. They shot about 30 to 40 percent more accurate than those sold in green boxes. They quit that after moving their plant from California to Missouri.
And accuracy across different lots of the same make/type/weight can also be different. For example....
Arsenal's making that famous 30 caliber 173-gr. FMJBT match bullet typically had 3 or 4 bullet making machines in a row producing them. Which means their forming dies at each station were not exactly the same. Therefore, neither were the bullets. No matter to the management; they would put the output of all machines into the same lot of bullets to be loaded in a given run of match ammo. All of which adds up to the most accurate lots, National Match ones, would shoot a bit less than 2 MOA at 600 yards. But bullets from the most precise production line would shoot 1 MOA at worst. I've suspected this for years having sorted the ammo from one lot of 7.62 NATO M118 match ammo into 3 or 4 different batches based on the tiny marks on bullets left there from their jacket forming dies. It was confirmed not too long ago by a retired employee from one of the arsenals as well as at a proving ground. No wonder the military teams pulled bullets from M118 arsenal ammo then replaced them with Sierra's.
Lapua has been known to put four different production lots of bullets into a retail lot. Using a 50X optical comparator, the bullets would appear 15 inches in diameter on the screen. Four different ogive shapes were observed. Evidence four different cherry mills were used making the bullet forming dies to shape them.
I believe Sierra and Berger put all bullets from a given production line in the same lot for retail. If any tool is changed, a new lot number's assigned bullets made with the new configuration. But they know that some lots of jacket material form more consistently dimension wils than other lots. Sierra had a problem getting good jacket material from Olin back in the 70's or 80's and ended up getting better copper from Germany. Sierra used to package super accurate bullets into plain cardboard boxes; 1000 in each, then sell them at big rifle matches. They shot about 30 to 40 percent more accurate than those sold in green boxes. They quit that after moving their plant from California to Missouri.
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Changing firing points has changed point of impact. I have fired tens of thousands of 168 SMK's and 168 Hornady match. Out to 300 yards I can't say I saw much if any POI change given the same rifle, powder, brass, primer, etc. At 600 yards, there are POI changes depending on the day, maybe a click or two, but I have never finished a string where the sight settings were exactly the same as at the start, or exactly the same as in all other matches.
I have shot 168 Hornady, 168 SMK, and 168 Nosler, and they are all about the same, never needed big changes in my elevation or windage data.
I have shot Speer but I could not get them cheap and I don't remember.
I think that bullet manufacturers put a lot of effort into their match bullets to keep them as consistent as humanly possible, and accordingly charge a premium price for them. I understand how switching dies could result in slight differences between lots, but how much of an issue is it in the real world? It would be nice if we could test many lots and brands of bullets and buy a lifetime supply of the one that shot the best, but that isn't possible.
I assume that the OP's question is in regard to shooting NRA/CMP Highpower or a similar practical shooting sport where the shooter actually has to hold the rifle and hit a target, preferably in the middle. If so, I have found that for every point I've dropped due to my ammo is canceled out by about 20 points I've dropped because something else went wrong.
Personally, I've shot Sierra, Hornady, and Nosler 168's and don't notice that much of a difference. I know many shooters who swear by Sierra and will shoot nothing else. I'm influenced by price and lately have been shooting more Hornady and Nosler. I don't think they are the reason I didn't win the national championship this year.
Laphroaig
I assume that the OP's question is in regard to shooting NRA/CMP Highpower or a similar practical shooting sport where the shooter actually has to hold the rifle and hit a target, preferably in the middle. If so, I have found that for every point I've dropped due to my ammo is canceled out by about 20 points I've dropped because something else went wrong.
Personally, I've shot Sierra, Hornady, and Nosler 168's and don't notice that much of a difference. I know many shooters who swear by Sierra and will shoot nothing else. I'm influenced by price and lately have been shooting more Hornady and Nosler. I don't think they are the reason I didn't win the national championship this year.
Laphroaig
TimSr
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yep x2
Varminterror
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Different powders with the same bullet can produce different accuracy, different powder charges/velocities with the same bullet and same powder can produce different accuracy, different rifles with the same exact load (bullet, powder, and charge weight, can produce different accuracy, different seating depth of the same exact load can produce different accuracy...
Very likely the same rifle with the same velocity and different bullets, even with the same weight and BC, will exhibit a difference in accuracy.
Very likely the same rifle with the same velocity and different bullets, even with the same weight and BC, will exhibit a difference in accuracy.
doubleh
Member
Over the years I have experimented with Sierra and Hornady bullets and quite a few different powders in 22/250 and 223 rifles. Sierra bullets have nearly always given slightly better accuracy than Hornady with any powder I've used. Once in awhile the Hornady will edge out the Sierra but by so little I really think it can be attributed to the shooter.
I don't care what anyone says, the only way you can be sure of what a load will do in a particular gun is to load it and shoot it.
I don't care what anyone says, the only way you can be sure of what a load will do in a particular gun is to load it and shoot it.
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