Dillon in my future???

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I've got a lot of presses from single stage to progressives loading from 45 acp to 50 bmg and have been doing it for 15 years.

On Dillon, I have one of their square deals and a 550b. Since your looking at moving up, I can give you some feedback on the 550 and dillon in general.

You may pay more but part of that price is the no BS warranty. If ANYTHING breaks, you get a replacement for free... period. I stripped a screw on my square deal and they gave me a new powder measure and connecting shaft without hesitation. Their customer service is second to none. I wish MEC would do that.

The 550 is comparable with consistency to my RCBS Ammomaster when shoulder bumping and bullet seating. I can expect a 0.001 variance between cases on headspace.

If your match loading, you may want to get some die shims for the sizing die and locking rings for dies you want to remove. For me, the 550 has preformed great on my match loads. If you use varget (extruded powder), tie down a cheap aquarium pump on the powder measure and you'll get 0.01 grain accuracy.

I wouldn't sweat the cost for accessories. It's 'nice' to have the strong mount, but not necessary. The toolheads are cheap and easily changed. I've never had a problem with their priming system. I perfer the 550 because it's easy to fix a mistake if things get out of synch for some reason.

For non-shouldered rounds it is very fast. For others, you'll need to stop to prep the brass (trim length) which you'll need to do with any progressive.

Try the 550. If you don't like it, you'll only take a small loss if you sell it on ebay. They maintan their value and people are always looking for them. I wouldn't trade my 550 for anything. No, I don't work for dillon.
 
Andy, nice to meet you.

My name is LGB Loader.

Allow me to retort:

If you go back and read the original post, the only question he was asking was this:

What Input can u folks add about proper accessories etc for the new setup as well as where to get the best all around deal???
Click to expand...

That's it. No other questions.

His title of the thread wasn't a question, it was a statement.

but I think it is time to move to a dillon.
Click to expand...

He already made up his mind to go with the 650 although it was pushing his budget limit. And some people start ripping something he is excited about getting and I think that it's a bit rude. Let him be happy. That's it.

Now I could get nasty with you and your defensive response to me but I will let it slide, Life is too short for petty issues, My Man. I come here for fun, not bullsh*t. Perhaps you could put down your fists and join the party.

Keep your fingers snapping and your toes tappin', Mate.

Cheers...
 
I had a Lee LoadMaster and I won't say how it was, no bashing here.

But I now have a Dillon 550B. Wish that I'd have gotten it first. Anyhow, the auto index feature on any machine isn't important to me nor is the speed with which they're suppose to crank out.

What's important is the quality of the ammo with whatever press that you use. I purposely go slow so as not to create any unforeseen problems and I enjoy reloading, it relaxes me.
 
FWIW...I load both rifle and pistol, probably about equal amounts on my 550. I had the opportunity to basically trade even for a 650 and declined. For rifle, I STRONGLY prefer the manual index.

I load rifle one round at a time. As noted above, it allows one to very easily adjust and check rounds. IMO, auto index is a real pain to adjust or set up for rifle, particularly when varying seating length or powder charge.

There are a couple of members here that, for whatever reason, feel that their entire existence is centered around bashing Dillon and justifying their use of other presses. They need to get a life.
 
Wow!!!!! Some imaginations seem to have run amuck here.

If you are referring to my comments, where have I bashed Dillon? I have repeated another Dillon owners statement, I have published accurate facts on prices, I have corrected them where errors appear to have been made, vet where did I bash Dillon???

I own a 550, regularly load on a friend’s 650 (and the 650 friend just got an LNL AP), and have the LNL AP on which I do the Lions share of my reloading. If I were bashing Dillon, I would not shoot that Dillon loaded ammo or even admit to still using their presses.

Now, for you guys who are attacking me, I don’t see where you have ever had experience loading on the LNL. So how can you make objective comments on comparing 550 to 650 to LNL AP?????????????????

I am not cutting down Dillon when I say that I will be happy to give you a long laundry list of reasons of why I find the LNL to be my goto press.
 
Hey Shoney,


Thanks for your opinion. I think it is great that there is a wide range of preferences on this forum. After all, this is not a Dillon forum. Hey, here is a thought, maybe you should go on the Dillon forum and sell your long laundry list there. For me, I don't care because I agree, The Hornady is a great press too. I have loaded on it at my friend Bobs house before he sold it. He just didn't use it enough so he unloaded alot of his bench. That's okay, he uses my Cave "for free".

I have one question for you, with no bullsh*t attached.

Why do you still have a 550b and still load regularly on a friends 650. You have a Hornady LNL AP. Isn't that all you need with caliber changes being so cheap and it making far superior ammo and all? What you are selling and what you are using kind of contradict eachother a bit. It kinda shows that if you buy a Hornady LNL AP, you will still need a 550b and a 650XL. Just curious.

Anyhow, Shoney, I think you are a good man and I am glad to have this friendly discussion but it's time to hit the range and I am sooo late. Talk to you soon and have a good one.

LGB Loader
 
I'm going to answer your original question based on my experience with progressives.

With 45's no problems, go to town. The handle is nice as is the strong base, but won't be a deal-breaker.

For 223's it's a bit different. I'm not sure how others do it, but I like to trim my brass after sizing. When I reload these, I use two toolheads, but you can do it all at once if you have one of their Rapid Trim units installed... $209. I think the 650 has the ability to install a swagger which is nice for once-fired military brass. Not sure if it's included or not.

I guess with the trimmer, you can go to town on the 650 and speed things up with a case feeder. I'd be interested to see how others do it without a trimmer in one swipe.

I don't use a powder check. I load 223's with varget and can easily see if it's been charged or not, I've heard mirrors being used as well. But that takes attention and may slow things down.

I couldn't justify the cost of the extra trays they offer. If the price came down on these I'd consider it.

I would but some extra toolheads though. Never know if you want one set up for some basic press stuff... like decapping or bullet pulling...
 
lgbloader,

I can't speak for Shoney, but I can speak to your comments. My answers in context below.

"Why do you still have a 550b and still load regularly on a friends 650."

I don't have a 550B any more, I got rid of it. I load regularly on my friend's 650 because when I'm over at his house and we're hanging out, that's the only press he owns, though he often complains about the rifle cartridge run out and the powder measure issues with extruded powders and wishes he'd bought the LnL instead. He really likes my LnL, uses it to lose is .308 and .233 cartridges.

"You have a Hornady LNL AP. Isn't that all you need with caliber changes being so cheap and it making far superior ammo and all?"

Probably is, but it's a free country and we can buy anything we want. The LnL has less runout and better powder dispensing of rifle powders. The two are about a tie with pistol cartridges, though I would probably give a nod to the Dillon for ease of pistol reloading, but not a big nod.

I have some of nearly every brand and color of reloading equipment on my bench. The color I have the least of is Dillon blue, due to it's pricing vs. value. And I'm not saying that to be mean. I really, genuinely, have found better value in other brands than most everything Dillon sells. If Dillon offered the better value, I'd buy their stuff more, but I haven't found that to be the case.

"What you are selling and what you are using kind of contradict each other a bit. It kinda shows that if you buy a Hornady LNL AP, you will still need a 550b and a 650XL. Just curious."

In my case, this simply isn't true. But in Shoney's case, if he already has the 550 set up for a specific task and is happy using it for that task and already has several caliber setups for that press, I think it's his right to keep anything he wants without criticism. After all, it's a free country and he never said Dillon was bad. But I think what he's saying (and I don't speak for him) is he's found the LnL to be a better press and he's supported that with documentation and his own experiences.

I don't think you're proving the Dillon press is better by changing for discussing presses to what amounts to a personal attack and baiting of Shoney. Instead, I think folks often resort to personal attacks when losing a debate. Doesn't prove their point or win the discussion, just proves the other side's point. In this case, I'd give the nod to Shoney. He's stuck to facts.

Bottom line though is, most folks don't need a progressive in the first place. Because they simply aren't loading enough cartridges or spending enough time reloading to need that much speed. Most folks would be just as well off with a Lee Classic Turret and use the money saved over either progressive to buy a single stage for special tasks and spend the rest of the money saved on components and guns.

Regards,

Dave
 
Dillion XL 650 Accessories

Recommend buying from http://www.Grafs.com.

Get the roller handle, Strong Mount, bullet tray, primer alarm, an extra primer feed setup so you don't have to mess with switching the wheel between large and small primers.

Get a tool head including powder measure for each caliber you shoot more than 500 rounds a year and load the rest one one of your other machines. Get a powder sensor for each tool head.

Buy Dillon dies for each tool head. One exception is that I switched to a Redding competition seating die for my .223 set-up so I can easily change OAL.

Take apart your powder measure and polish the funnel casting and break the sharp edges on the measure bars before you set up the toolheads. I don't know how much it helps but it only takes about 15 minutes and doesn't hurt. Again, I added a UniqueTek micrometer to the powder measure on my .223 set so I can quickly change weights. http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1231

Loading on a 650 without a case feeder is like taking an AR to the range with one 20 round box of ammo.

I added a clamp on articulating florescent light magnifying glass light cause I'm old and don't see into small dark places like I used too.

I have a Dillion trimmer dedicated to .223 setup on an old RCBS Reloader Special and will eventually set up another for 30.06. Everything else I trim with a RCBS hand trimmer or the LEE set up.

Thing is...reloading is like any other hobby; it's not ALWAYS about low cost or even value.

Have a great time with your new Dillion - or whatever you end up with next!

Scott
 
LGB my 650 friend and I have die sets that the other does not have, so there is a mutual trade off there. But more than that, there is a camaraderie. When we are together, we rock and roll nonstop with the git and shiggles, heavy on the shigles. His wife would hear the roars and laughter coming from the man cave, and would sneak down and listen in from time to time. She later confessed to this and admitted that she would always break into fits of laughter for days after.

My 550 has been on by bench for 14 or 15 years, and is now dedicated to 38/357. I got the 550 at an estate sale for $75, along with assorted dies, plates, bullets, primers and powders. It was unadvertised, they didn’t have a clue, and I was there very early. I became a rabid blue cool aid drinker. However, the miser in me didn’t allow the purchase of the quick change units. My brand loyalty was badly shaken when I first did a hands on with the LNL AP.

Do I want to go on a Dillon forum? What could I possibly do in that mutual admiration society except confuse them with facts and make enemies.
 
Hey there, Shoney.

I read your post and I think you are right on. That's why I used to go to my friends house and load on his Hornady. I wish he still had it for his sake, you know what I mean?

I got the 550 at an estate sale for $75, along with assorted dies, plates, bullets, primers and powders.
Click to expand...

Wow!!! I hear ya. That was a great deal you ran into.

Thanks for not taking my post in the wrong way. I was not trying to sling mud, it's just I was trying to understand your logic because I know your a bright person.

Dave -
I think you got the wrong impression, Mate. I have alot of respect for Shoney because he knows his sh*t. I apologize if my wording was given the wrong impression and after reading it, I can see how it could be taken in the wrong way.

Anyhow, I hope you guys had a good day. I had a pretty good one, although I have to say, I like outdoor ranges better than the indoor I went to today. But... it's only 10 minutes away so what do you want. Time to get back to The Cave and clean up.

Cheers...
 
Mallc: I have a Dillion trimmer dedicated to .223 setup on an old RCBS Reloader Special and will eventually set up another for 30.06. Everything else I trim with a RCBS hand trimmer or the LEE set up.
Click to expand...

I'm confused why the trimmer isn't loaded on the 650. I have an idea why but want to confirm it.

Can you please explain your technique for loading 223 on the 650?

Here's mine for my 550: 1) decap, body size, neck size 2) trim, pockets, flash holes, tumble (off press) 3) prime, charge, seat

Only reason I ask is because I've been thinking of getting a 650, but if it's a two stage process that I already use for my 550, it's not worth it.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but do you need two trimmers for two calibers? Because it's hard to set up? If that's the case (pun intended) I'll stick to my Girraud trimmer.
 
LGBLoader,

Pardon my poor manners; nice to meet you too.

His title of the thread wasn't a question, it was a statement.
Click to expand...

The last time I checked, a question mark is the English punctuation placed at the end of a question. Just in case we migh think it was a typo, the OP added two more of them for emphasis.

So, yes, the OP did most emphatically ask if it was time for a Dillon press.

Andy
 
BitSwap

Bitswap,

Not sure what you are asking.

I don't use a conventional bench. I mount tools to 8" x 16" boards and install the boards on a fixture that clamps to my workbench. My Dillion trimmer/sizer is on a dedicated single stage press and I don't change calibers very often because its a PIA.

I now use a two station fixture but here is a photo of an earlier version if you are interested.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4061734&postcount=309

I clean and prep in small batches and load when I get a coffee can or so ready to go. Here is the full routine:

Prep for rifle:
1. Tumble
2. Decap
a. Swage and chamfer if brass is crimped
3. Lube/Size/Drim
4. Ream flash hole
5. Ream primer pocket
6. Chamfer inside and outside of case mouth
7. Steel wool shoulder
8. Brush clean case mouth

I use a standard 5 position set up on the 650.

1. Size and decap is in standard setting but doesn't do anything
2. Prime/charge
3. Check powder
4. Seat
5. Crimp - I also backed off the crimp

For handgun:
1. Tumble
2. Dillon spray lube
3. Size and decap g
4. Prime/flare/charge
3. Check powder
4. Seat
5. Crimp - sorta

I load 30.06 on a Redding T7. I have neck bushing dies but use a standard FL sizer backed off a bit so it doesn't push the case shoulder back. Gives me plenty of tension and not nearly the hassle. (Many thanks to Reloader Fred for that tip!)

Hope this helps.
Scott
 
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Mallc: understood. you do things pretty much like I do except I don't crimp rifle rounds. My suspisions were correct. The 650 isn't really geared for match prep, as is any progressive press.

Helps a lot.

Thanks Mallc.
 
I suspect the 550 comes as close as anything. It's basically a turret press that holds four rounds at a time. When I do rifle, I leave the locator buttons out so I can easily pull the individual cases and do any operation one at a time.

That's the reason I passed on the 650 and kept the 550.
 
It's time I chimed back in on this thread. I'll add a few comments about how I use my XL 650.

I don't bother with the standard dillon measure for rifle loading. I use a Hornady case activated measure for all rifle loading.

image9.jpg

dillon%20.223.jpg

For shells that have been trimmed the loading before, they get checked for case length. If they're not too long they go through the entire process, station 1 through 5. Since I don't crimp .223, theres no need for exact case length.

So that puts me in league with others that use the best parts of both worlds.

For pistol, I find the dillon sliding bar type measure adequate for my loads. Most are shot very quickly at short range into a silhouette for IDPA or IPSC.

I suspect if Hornady would ever come out with the AP WITHOUT those @%*! LNL bushings, I would buy one! I've just seen too many threads here and on other forums about the poor quality of those inserts/collars/bushings. People claim that they NEED the quick change feature. Then say nothing about whether they hold the dies as well as the dillon tool head. By "as well" I mean has anyone done any runout measurements, Hornady versus Dillon? If the tolerances that Hornady holds is so far off as to allow bad bushings to get sold, causing powder measures to loosen up, then how would they hold a die straight and square?

If the top of the Hornady was tapped 7/8X14 so you could thread dies into it, I suspect it could out do the Dillon 650 for runout measurements.That only leaves the shell plate/ram to hold the shell solid.

I guess I get defensive about my choice for loaders. If I hurt any feelings, then I'm sorry. But I naturally have to call a spade a spade, sometimes I get carried away!:rolleyes:
 
Hey Andy,

I'll have to disagree but I could be wrong. I'll stand by my interpretation and respect yours.

Agreed that we disagree and respect eachother as men. Friends?

Cheers.
 
This forum seems to have some very vocal LnL fans.

I went through the same decision process about two years ago and ended up buying a Dillion 550b. I reload about 8k 9mm / yr and around 4k 45acp /yr. I plan to start reloading 223 at some point but haven't yet. I've been very happy with my 550b.

Dillon's product support is phenomenal bordering on irrational. I shoot a lot of USPSA matches and talked with a lot of shooters before purchasing. Most of these guys load in excessive of 10k rounds a year, some in excess of 40k/yr, and all of them have some flavor of Dillon press. Mostly 650's.

Another good source of info and a dealer (check out his 'as it should be' accessory kits)
http://www.brianenos.com/pages/dillon.html#which
 
Snuffy,

I kinda do the same thing with my 550b. I started doing this for my Dad when he wants to reload his 38 spcl, 357 mag, and 44 mag at his request and I gotta say, it works great for these calibers. He'll process his brass (1st Inspection, Tumble, Lube with One Shot, Size and deprime, Check length-trim-champfer-deburr if neccessary, 2nd inspection) and then prime with a RCBS Universal hand primer. Then Dad will have me take the primer system off the 550b and exchange the Dillon powder charger assembly off and he'll use a Uniflow that he swears by.

Station 1. Empty
Station 2. RCBS Uniflow w/ Dillon 450 powder die & correct funnel #, and Dillon 3rd party adapter.
*after dropping the powder and before indexing, look in case to check charge.
Station 3. Bullet seater
Station 4. Crimp

Final inspection.

It is a strange approach to progressive but really hands on.

Cheers.
 
bp78: To put things in perspective, Dillon has been around with their presses since at least the early 80's. As far as getting established, they had a hard time competing against the marketing and distribution network of RCBS and Hornady.

But once established, they were virtually the only game in town. The company flourished and the numbers of users multiplied. Long time users build up great brand loyalty, and it would only be natural to recommend what has worked well for them. Change is extremely hard, whether it be presses, pistols, or powders and so on.

Many of the "systems" on the Dillon presses have not changed in many years. The old tech powder slide is one of them and those who have experience with other PM systems can easily see a big difference. Snuffy above is one of many.

The "Other Guys" in the press manufacturing business have been slow to answer the Dillon challenge, but now have come up with many innovative and refined systems. Other companies have now produced quality equipment with which to measure and quantify run-out/concentricity. Several members of the forum have done these tests, comparing some single stage presses with 550, 650, and LNL AP.

What gravels me the people who say, ”Buy the bla-bla press.” There are no reasons, no justifications, and complete lack of factual information.

If you are going to recommend one powder over another, do you do so after extensively loading only one of them?

If you are going to recommend one 45 over another, do you do so after shooting only one of them?
 
Bitswap

Agreed. The 650 basically turns out a ton of ammo in a very short period of time. Polishing the powder measure and slide gives me the same throw variation I get from my Redding BRK3 competition measure. Adding the Redding competition seating die gives me a bit more consistencey than the Dillon seating system. Neither made me a better shooter...but I do shoot a LOT more.

I' thinking that most folk with a Dillion also have another press or two for working up loads and "other" stuff. At least that's the excuse I always use!

Scott
 
Shoney, for the cost of another PM, you can get 5 threaded bushings from CH4D and screw in the dies if you wish. Makes it like the older Projector model, but with the updated PM linkage, primer feed, and potential case feeder. Also like the old Dillon 450 (with updated features), which a lot of folks swear by.

Andy
 
If you are going to recommend one powder over another, do you do so after extensively loading only one of them?
Click to expand...

I had a Hornady Projector which was a PITA, and I sold. I also had a Dillon 450 which was equally a PITA and I sold.

For what I do, I use the 550 and it is about as perfect as as I'm going to get. I wouldn't trade it even up for a 650 (which I had a chance), and I wouldn't trade it for a Hornady. While the auto index may be a godsend for pistol loaders, I hate it for rifle.

As I've noted before, for whatever reason my Hornady rotary will not throw as consistently as my Dillon measures. I have no idea why. I originally got it for precision rifle. Today I was loading Varget in .223 for a PD hunt. I was weighing every round, but after maybe 20 in a row that were 25.9 or 26.0, I quit weighing and just started cranking out rounds.

I don't want to dump powder. I don't want to change bushings. I don't want to screw stuff in and out and maybe get the wrong powder or the wrong bushing. I slide in a tool head and crank out rounds.

YMMV
 
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