DMR/ "Sniper Rifle"

[sprice]

Having gained some information from my last thread- http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=581305, I've pretty much decided it's between an LWRC REPR and a PTR-MSG 91.

What I want is an accurate, durable, and reliable semi-automatic .308, with synthetic furniture, adjustable stock, 18" barrel, that will be used up to 800 meters/yards. The lighter and cheaper the better.

The REPR is about $3,500 (magpul prs stock and 18" barrel, american designed and ar-15 like controls).

The PTR-MSG on the other hand is about $1,800 (long service life, cheap surplus parts like magazines).

What do you think I would be happier with and why? Should I spend more and get the REPR? Or go with the PTR?

All prices are w/ out optics and I plan on using a Pride and Fowler 800 scope.

 

[unwise11]

You didn't like the answer apparantly, get what you want.

 

[Runerock]

statment retracted

 

[sprice]

JD Morris- I'm fine with the answers I got it just looked like no one read my post. I said rifle as much or cheaper than the repr- all the m14's are about 4-5 grand. And they have awkward scope mounting. So this thread is me narrowing it down to two guns instead of a repr plus anything else you can think of.

 

[Quiet]

JD Morris- I'm fine with the answers I got it just looked like no one read my post. I said rifle as much or cheaper than the repr- all the m14's are about 4-5 grand. And they have awkward scope mounting. So this thread is me narrowing it down to two guns instead of a repr plus anything else you can think of.

$4-5000? Really?

Semi-auto M14 set up as a DMR (similar set up that US SOCOM has for the Mk 14 Mod 0) should cost around $2100 (does not include price of optic).
Springfield Armory "loaded" M-1A are around $1500.
Sage M14ALCS "EBR stock" are around $600.

 

[DBryant]

Between the two choices, I would grab the PTR-MSG 91. They're less expensive up front and the mags are more affordable.

Plus, I really like the HK Iron sights. I know some people hate them, but I really came to love them on my old Century clone. Learn to put one ring inside another and they're quick and accurate.

The obvious downside is that you need a special tool to zero them. Of course, once they're zeroed, range adjustments are easy, although more limited than on an AR. Sure, you have to use Kentucky windage to compensate for wind drift but, outside of target shooting, not many people make wind call adjustments on iron sights.

On the other hand, if you don't like them they're not easily replaceable. Then again, since you'll be scoping it anyway, I'm not sure how much the iron sights will matter to you, other than not having to buy a pair of backup irons.

Yeah, I would go with the PTR and use the extra money for a nice scope.

 

[greginVa]

I know it doesn't pertain but Rock River, DPMS, and Armalite build exellent AR 10s that are less than $2000. Options on these are unlimited.

 

[sprice]

Quiet- refer to the link on my other thread and read the first two posts.

Oh I meant all the m14's I would consider not actually ALL of them, sorry for being confusing.

 

[Quiet]

What kind of optic are you looking at using with your rifle?
Because you should also factor that in when determing the cost.

Which would cause the $3500 LWRC REPR to be in the $4000-5000 range depending on the optic.

I voted for the PTR-MSG91, so you can spend the rest of your money on optics, magazines and ammo.

Just saying...
The base price on the LMT MWS308 is $2800 and it was selected by the UK MOD to be the UK Army's new DMR.

 

[redbullitt]

Gas guns are harder to get great accuracy with. It can be done easily, but it just costs money compared to a bolt gun. I am sure you know this already.

For all practical purposes at 800 yards, a one minute rifle will work well enough for most things. I have shot consistent 1 minute rifles and can nail torso steel at 800 just fine.

One minute gas rifles? Very doable IMHO, especially with good match ammo. A fairly consistent 3/4 minute rifle is doable while still cost effective. Just gotta find the sweet spot between what you want to spend and what you NEED the rifle to do to be satisfied. Beware the law of diminishing returns.

From the choices I voted for the lwrc. Buy once and be done with it and do not worry about it. That is a fine rifle and I think you would be happy with it. Honestly there are more cost effective ways to do this though...

I do not see why quite a few other manufacturers, or custom shops for the prices you are talking about, are not in the running. Just my .02 though.

Have you looked at the GAP ar10s? Tack drivers and fine fine pieces. Even costs a bit less than that lwrc lol, but unless you can find a used one you might be looking at a wait. I have one and it shoots lights out... Got ahold of it with 400ish rounds down the tube, so no wait and couldnt be happier with it.

 

[sarduy]

saiga 308

 

[unwise11]

Oh geez, here comes the AK fanboy, reccomending what he likes because he likes it even though it will be nearly impossible to fill the role wanted, and you can forget Sub- MOA if you go with that suggestion, get the LWRC, if you need it, although, if you got a 700 SPS and put it into an H-S precision or McMillan stock I would bet you would have a better shooter, for a few 1000 less, and you would have money left for really good optics, and a case of match ammo, or a reloading setup, Just me though I reload, and shoot bolguns for accuracy, I need some good optics though..

 

[sprice]

Ya know what I think I'm actually going to go that route.

 

[unwise11]

Are you talking about the 700 route?
Also, if you want a really nice boltgun already put together except for the scope, look at the Sendero's and the Milspec 5-R's offered by Remington, it saves time, and both are stainless finished, but will still cost a bit more than the SPS Tac in a good stock, and if you are planning on shooting really heavy bullets (180's-220's) get the AAC-SD Tactical model, they can be found for the same price at gun shows if you look, brand new you can get em for 575-600, and the SPS Tactical basic costs about the same.

 

[SentinelStrategic]

I honestly think you should be looking at a LaRue OBR. The OBR can out shoot both rifles. The PTR-91 is not a consistent sub-MOA rifle. It also hacks up brass, in case you want to reload. The REPR is sub-MOA capable, but it's going to be heavier due to the piston system. The OBR is 9.7lbs for the 18" barrel, and the REPR is 10.5lbs for the same configuration. The OBR is $2995, has built-in 20MOA cant on the rail, and can be optioned with an adjustable stock. The OBR cleaned up at the 2010 US Army Int'l Sniper Competition, and commercial buyers have reported getting as good as 0.3 MOA groups with it.

 

[henschman]

What M-14s cost $4-5 grand?

This one here http://www.762mmfirearms.com/completesemiautom14rifles.aspx is $2200 built with mil spec parts on a forged receiver. Add an ARMS #18 scope mount for $160 or so and an adjustable cheek riser for $50 to make it work with a scope, and you're still $1,000 cheaper than a REPR, in a much more tried and true package with much more available spare parts.

What am I missing?

 

[SentinelStrategic]

What M-14s cost $4-5 grand?

This one here http://www.762mmfirearms.com/complet...m14rifles.aspx is $2200 built with mil spec parts on a forged receiver. Add an ARMS #18 scope mount for $160 or so and an adjustable cheek riser for $50 to make it work with a scope, and you're still $1,000 cheaper than a REPR, in a much more tried and true package with much more available spare parts.

What am I missing?

That M1A won't touch a REPR for accuracy. The REPR is capable of as good as 0.5MOA, whereas the best M1As from the factory can do no better than 1MOA. Those factory rifles are the National Match, Super Match, M21 and M25. All of those are significantly higher than $2200. M1A/M14 rifles turn into money pits for incremental accuracy gains. You have to tune the gas system, shim the stock to get sufficient tension on the barrel, have a good barrel, a good trigger, etc. Arguably the best rifle on the market is the SEI Crazy Horse. The conversion for that rifle puts it at a $5k rifle. Reliable? Yes. Battle Tested? Absolutely. More accurate than a REPR? No.
I could build a DI AR-10 that could get 0.5MOA for under $2k. A custom M1A with the potential for 1MOA or maybe sub-MOA capabilities would cost in the $4k-5k range, if it were possible. Unfortunately, I haven't talked to too many people that have been able to achieve reliable and consistent sub-MOA accuracy out of an M1A platform. If they do, it's usually between 0.75MOA and 1.0MOA and it's usually done with handloads.
I have a Springfield M1A Loaded with about $3k into the rifle and stock (not including optics), and it gets 1.0-1.5 MOA with M118LR ammunition on a good day.

 

[henschman]

Who said anything about sub-MOA accuracy? IIRC in the original thread, the OP's requirements were to hit a man-sized target out to 800 yards. That is well within the capabilities of a standard rack-grade M-14 with a GI chrome-lined barrel and iron sights.

The M-14 would also be lighter weight than a MSG-90 or an 18" barreled REPR.

 

[SentinelStrategic]

The M1A would have to be sub-MOA accurate to compete with a REPR. THAT'S why I said something about sub-MOA accuracy. And sub-MOA accuracy is on a good day with a highly tuned rifle and handloads. 1MOA accuracy is realistically the most consistent. 1MOA @ 800yds is ~8.3". If you shoot a higher grade factory M1A with match components, you'll likely see somewhere between 1.5-2 MOA. That's between a 12.5" and 16.7" deviation at 800yds. Standard M1As will be less than that. There's no consistent guarantee of a hit at that range with that accuracy. 1MOA will give you enough to be confident at that range, but a $2200 M1A package likely won't produce that accuracy. In order for the M1A to be on the same playing field, it has to have the same capabilities. This is why, out of the three suggested, the REPR is the most economical option.

My vote still goes with the LaRue OBR.