"Sniper Rifles"

[sprice]

What's a good long range rifle? It needs a synthetic stock, heavy barrel, accurate up to 800 yards, .308, and up to $800.

I started off with this in mind: Remington 700 sps varmint, with a bell and carlson stock. 800 yards is pretty much the limit.

Cz, tikka, remington, savage, ect. What do you think is the best gun for the money? Accuracy, durability, reliability, and weight are all factors. Detatchable magazines are a plus for me. My .22 practice rifle is a cz 452 silhouette so the cz's may get a small advantage there.

I don't care about aftermarket parts after the initial rifle is built. I pretty much only care about the above. Please tell me what you think.

$800 is only for the rifle and a .45-70 with irons can be shot out to 1,000 so I think any of these rifles will be capable for 800. I'm really leaning to Cz, Howa, Savage, and Remington.

Ok more info, the longer range is just for fun. I'm fine with 1 MOA but anything less is great. .75, .5 would be sweet with handloaded ammo. I'm going to use it for coyote hunting and mountain muley hunting at the shorter distances. I would like to use a pride and fowler scope but that's totally seperate from this. This rifle will mostly just be a fun range gun.

 

[txhoghunter]

Okay, no. Lets use the term "long range rifle"

You will not be engaging people and therefore we say LR/target rifle

I say stock Savage, or if you can customize some, a Remington 700 action built up

 

[txhoghunter]

Is $800 the limit for the rifle? Or the rifle and optic combined?

Either way, you will be hard pressed to find a stock rifle that can do what you ask. Some aftermarket stuff is almost always a necessity for shooting at those distances.

The F-Class guys will come on and let you know what you need to shoot those ranges

 

[sprice]

The term sniper came from snipe hunting and since I also put it in quotes I think I'm safe using the term sniper.

 

[pikid89]

a person that was skilled in hunting the small and fast moving snipe was considered a "sniper"...that term then morphed into describing a shooter that was skilled at shooting in general
alot of these internet shooter, while quite knowledgable, has been turned off of the word due to its usage by mall ninjas, COD addicts, and gecko45
anyway, if you want to build a "sniper rifle" by all means do it, just dont do it with the intent of shooting people
that said
an SPS is a good choice, a bell and carlson is good, and if you are in need of a budget scope, Natchez shooter supply has the well regarded Bushnell Elite 3200 in a fixed 10x power variant with Mil-Dots for like 170 bucks

 

[txhoghunter]

Okay for long range shooting, you will also probably need to get into reloading if you aren't already. A rifle's true potential is shown after a load has been tailored to it.

And how accurate are you wanting?

 

[Ringer]

Based on a fair amount of research and previously owning one.

Winchester M70 Stealth .308. About $750 new these days.

I only sold mine because I didn't have access to a local range with distances to support it.

 

[mljdeckard]

I'm building an AR-10, but it would be a challenge to build a really accurate one for that budget.

If I were doing what you are doing, I would peruse the pawn shops. MANY guys decide to do the sniper thing, put it all together, take it to the range, shoot it a few times, and then realize that it is going to be a lot of practice and money to use it like they planned. Sot it sits in the closet until their wife gets pregnant, so they sell it. I would start there.

And yes, if you aren't using premium natch grade ammo or handloading, you might as well grab any used .308 off the shelf.

 

[unwise11]

I'd look at the SPS Tactical, SPS Varmint, or a Savage 10PC or 10FP with accutrigger.
If you really want to go the "Sniper" route, get an H-S Precision stock, that's what they are using on the M24's now..
I'd also go with a good scope, at least 10 Power, with Mil Dots.. A 1000 yard shot doesn't need a 60 power scope, and getting a high quality scope with that kind of magnification would be thousands of dollars..
Remember that .308 match grade ammo can cost about 25-30 bucks per 20 if you don't reload...
If you do decide to reload you will be able to roll your own ammo that pushes harder than factory.
Another rifle suggestion would be a Howa M-1500, they are very accurate and Sniper Central uses them in their long range shooting course where they shoot out to 1000 yards..
I'll post more later, Time for school.

 

[Tirod]

.308 is old school. The Army is currently rebuilding all the rifles with .300 Win Mag as the caliber of choice.

Same bullets, more powder, more range, more ft-lbs of force downrange. No sense making unethical shots on snipe at 1000m, they should disappear in a puff of feathers.

Since the appropriate ammo will be handloaded and extensively shot more to find the exact recipe, enjoy the savings. Real snipers don't get that, it's issue ammo or not at all. In this case, the properly selected chamber specs will allow multiple reloads because there will be no case stretching or deformation at all. Those savings will be necessary, because real issue "sniper" rifles cost $4k +, and the scope that much again.

In the $800 class, you're just getting a good mule deer gun. Expect 1 MOA at best, that's a 10" group at 1000m. Which means it's impossibly inaccurate for snipe hunting.

As demonstrated, the term "sniper" to describe a type of firearm is completely useless these days, and has as much value as "assault weapon."

At 800m, you do recognize the need for a 12X scope to even see the target? Take a moment to websurf that price category scope. Now is the time to gather ALL the relevant information before discovering what is needed for the job may need to be fully considered.

800m ranges are few and far between, hopefully your's is located close at hand with an appropriate trail to set up targets. 2400 feet X 2 = 4800 feet, it's a long walk round trip, about 6 mins at a full run. A vehicle is usually preferred to set up and inspect targets.

 

[Robert]

A decent action will cost more than $800 easy. Optics will run at least $1000. A good stock can run near $1000. So figure $3,000 for a rifle and optics to get started. Sure an off the rack rifle can be made to shoot 1000 yards. But if you really want the best accuracy possible then you might take a look at a custom rifle.

And yes 45-70 will hit a gong at 1000y but it can not be described as a precision rifle.

 

[Jeff56]

You can buy an F class rifle for a lot less than $3000. Savage sells stock rifles that are winning lots of F class competitions against custom built rifles. Some of them have synthetic stocks and heavy barrels too. I bought a .223 for $950 used. I was shooting 2" groups with it yesterday at a quarter of a mile and I'm a relative newbie to anything over 300 yards because between the hills and the trees and the brush their just aren't a lot of places to shoot more than 300 yards near where I live.

A .308 will shoot farther and costs the same amount. I also saw another Savage 12 .223 for sale yesterday for $950 used. Mine is a 12 LRPV. And yes people do shoot .223's at 1000 yards but a .308 is a much better choice for that distance and 300 win mag is even better.

Lots of people start with low level Savages and swap barrels and triggers to get rifles that will easily do 1000 yards for right at $800. If you go to the Savage Shooters forum there will be people there who can tell you how to do that.

If you want proof that Savage is building rifles that win F class and F/TR competitions go to this web page and watch the video. If you want to know what those rifles cost go to this web page. The price there is $1061 and that includes shipping. And you can bet that rifle will do 1000 yards and more and do it very effectively.

I will say that most of the people on the Savage board prefer the 26" barrel to the 30" barrel on the rifle I linked to. Some buy this rifle and cut it down to 26" because the 30" barrels are front end heavy and tend to tip forward if you aren't holding them down. My rifle is a 26" barrel and according to a lot of people on the Savage board I have the best rifle Savage makes. But then again the Team Savage people use the stock F/TR so maybe at 1000 yards the extra barrel length matters.

BTW a single shot rifle is a big improvement over a rifle with a mag well because it keeps the rifle stiffer.

Team Savage set a 1000 yard record with the .308 version of the F/TR. So yes they will do 1000 yards. I know it's above your budget but there are used rifles around. Mine had only been fired a very few times. I don't know why really because it shoots fabulous. I would think you could find one a little older and stay in your budget.

They only allow .308 and .223 rifles in F/TR btw. Savage clearly knows how to get both to shoot 1000 yards. There are a few people who use the .223 in F/TR but a .308 is better for that distance. I bought a .223 because I found a good deal on a used one and because a neck injury keeps me from shooting more than 25 rounds at a time of .308 while I can shoot .223 all day.

Any way you look at it though you can get a Savage for close to what you want to spend that will certainly do very well at 1000 yards. BTW the F/TR comes with a laminate stock but the LRPV comes with a synthetic stock. Mine has an H-S Precision stock which was developed for the military for their sniper rifles.

 

[Justin]

What's a good sniper rifle? It needs a synthetic stock, heavy barrel, accurate up to 800 yards (preferably 1,000), .308, and up to $800.

You're not likely to find a 1000 yard gun capable of repeatable hits at those distances for $800.

The guys I've met who actually compete at those sorts of distances under field conditions have bought actions that cost that much.

Having priced out what is needed for such a rifle myself, prices tend to run from $2500-$5000 for just the gun, without optics. That also doesn't include to cost of reloading components, dies, powder drop, etc.

 

[MtnCreek]

turned off of the word due to its usage by mall ninjas, COD addicts, and gecko45

I just learned what a mall ninja is a few weeks ago. I have no idea what the other two of these terms are.

As for op, I have remington police and savage tac rifles. All shoot great and will likely do the same for you. You'll need good optics and mounting to get the best out of the rifle. For $800 worth of rifle, you're not going to get a true 800 - 1000 yd shooter, but it will probably shoot good enough to learn to shoot at those ranges.

 

[sta500rdr]

I agree with the Savage. Savage makes a nice stock rifle, nice trigger, reasonable price. I too like shooting long ranges on a budget. Don't let some of these guys tell you that its impossible to shoot at those ranges without dropping thousands upon thousands of dollars. While you may not be able to hold teeny tiny groups at those distances, you can still accomplish your goal with a reasonably priced rifle. I am currently trying to take my 6.5 Grendel out to 1000+. Good luck and have fun! I also agree with the guys who say you should start reloading, it makes a big difference!

 

[FC]

http://www.savagearms.com/news/article/?id=1DoKxAoZh

"Team Savage started its 2010 season in grand fashion, winning the F T/R National Championship team competition by besting all others in the 600 and 1,000 yard events, and establishing an new 1,000-yard record of 778-21X. That would seem hard to top. But that is exactly what they did at the last two major matches of their season."


Looks like Savage builds winners to me!

 

[txhoghunter]

"Team Savage started its 2010 season in grand fashion, winning the F T/R National Championship team competition by besting all others in the 600 and 1,000 yard events, and establishing an new 1,000-yard record of 778-21X. That would seem hard to top. But that is exactly what they did at the last two major matches of their season."


Looks like Savage builds winners to me!

And I assure you, the rifles that they used are not $800 stock rifles....

$800 can get you a 6-700 yard shooter *maybe*

Now for consistent hits past that, see post #13....

edited, I meant to say $800 stock rifles since that is the OP's price ceiling. Those rifles that they use are upwards of $1000

 

[FC]

"We continue to be thrilled with the winning results from Team Savage. It says a lot about them and it says a lot about the rifles," Savage VP of Sales & Marketing Brian Herrick said. "We're not trying to tell anybody that they can just buy a Savage and shoot like Darrell, John, Monte and Stan, but it should be fairly obvious by now that shooting stock Savage rifles isn't holding these guys back at all."

 

[Robert]

F Class and LR Tactical Rifle matches which are held under field conditions are two different games. Comparing the two is like apples and oranges. Decide what you want to do and build or buy the rifle that suits your needs the best. You might want to give Zak Smith's web site a look.

http://demigodllc.com/

 

[BushyGuy]

If money is no issue then Les Baer bolt action is IMHO the best sniper rifle in the world, i never shot one but some day when i have enough money i will defintely buy one! Perfect for long range hunting!

http://www.lesbaer.com/boltaction.html

 

[savage1r]

Mosin Nagant 91-30 = $100
Synthetic stock = $60
Jmeck scope mount = $80ish
4-16x scope = $150
That's $390, spend the other $410 on ammo and you're good for life.

 

[Justin]

Admittedly I've never shot one of the Savage rifles. They may indeed be very nice. If anyone wants to get me a sample one, I'll happily put it through some trials and do a writeup.

I have heard that the Savages don't deal as well with harsh or dusty environments as well as some of the other guns out there.

As for using a box stock surplus Mosin Nagant as a long range gun, that's just wishful thinking.

 

[Prosser]

HMMM.

I also have a CZ 452 and it's a joy. The barrel is supposed to be what makes these guns accurate.

I have an old 30-06 Mark X Mauser rifle. If, for some reason I want to spend a bunch of money to shrink the groups, I'd get a match grade barrel, have it put on by a great gunsmith, and go from there. IIRC, last time I priced it, that was about 500 dollars. Just my guess, but once you get an excellent quality barrel on the gun, you can now spend thousands of dollars trying to go under MOA, or to shrink an already tiny group.

If it wasn't for the trigger on the Mosin Nagant, I would seriously wonder
what kind of accuracy you would get with that action and a match grade barrel.

 

[Justin]

Mosins have been used to build centerfire target rifles, most notably for competitions in Europe, most likely starting in the post-war era. You can run a search here and probably turn up one or two discussions on them.

I don't know if they are still used by competitive shooters there, but even if they are, there's a fairly tremendous difference between one of those guns and an off-the-rack surplus rifle.

 

[Jeff56]

You can convert a MN into a match grade 1000 yard rifle. You just need to replace all the parts and presto!

Justin I have 4 Savage rifles and none of them have ever given me even a slight problem. Admittedly I'm not carrying one around a trench for months at a time or trying to climb an Italian mountain with mud and rain coming down that same mountain. I would guess a Savage would have a problem in those conditions because rifles with tight tolerances generally do have problems in those conditions. For that sort of thing I have a couple of SKS's. Not much of a long range rifle but not likely to quit under any conditions - well maybe some.

I've always been under the impression that a "long range rifle that is known by the s word" is something that has to be protected from the elements because of those tight tolerances. But then most of my knowledge of what a real "s" shooter is like comes from tv so I guess that makes me an expert.

All I know for sure is that my Savages all shoot exceptionally well except for one which only shoots really well. And if I had somewhere to test my rifle at 1000 yards I'd probably know more about it even though it's a .223. But I can shoot it a quarter of a mile at the gun range and they're working on getting a 600 yard range going. They have the range but they have to shut down the ATV trails behind it to let people shoot there so it's only open once in a while. Supposedly in a week I'll find out when I will be able to shoot 600 yards. That will be a pretty good next step for me. I'd like to work my way up to 1000 yards if possible. My rifle will shoot a 75 gr. bullet just fine (which I just learned yesterday) so I at least have a chance of getting to 1000 yards "IF" I ever find a place to shoot that far.

Some day I'll locate the nearest 1000 yard range and find out for myself if I have to travel all the way to Colorado to do it. But until then I'm limited to what I can read and hear on tv. And what I hear is that even the .223 Savages can do well at 1000 yards. I tend to believe that because I see my rifle do what I think are great things considering the loose nut behind the trigger. I'm new to long range shooting but I seem to have got a quarter of a mile down pretty well now. It took me a year to get here. And God willing I'll get a little farther by this time next year.