Do gunshops resent doing transfers?

[Don Gwinn]

The guy I use is great for $15, except that he's a little paranoid about transfer laws. Can't blame him there, though.

Another dealer told me he charges $50 for transfers because he knows no one will pay it and he has no interest in transfers.

I can't understand why dealers don't sell accessories and ammo with every transferred gun! That would be the way to make a profit, I would think. It's certainly the method used in every other business. Best Buy makes between $50 and -$125 on every computer they sell. They make their money by offering incentives to buy a monitor and printer every time. Then their sales guys (non commission, btw) offer the following in a cheerful, positive manner:

• USB/printer cable (upgrade to gold connection?)
• printer ink
• printer paper
• blank CD pack (one brand or another is always on sale dirt cheap)
• blank DVD's if needed
• surge protector (upgrade to UPS?)
• upgrade monitor to LCD?
• upgrade printer to all-in-one?
• service plan
• anti-virus software
• system optimization
• memory upgrade
• software installation
• printer installation
• mouse pad
• upgrade to 2.1 or 5.1 speaker system
• upgrade video or sound card
• flash drive
• joystick, gamepad, steering wheel
• software (MS Office, games, etc.)
• network equipment (routers, cable, switches, wireless)
• furniture

With a laptop, they offer most of that plus:

• optional mouse
• cooling pad
• portable desk
• carrying case
• lock
• numeric keypad
• external floppy drive if needed
• docking station
• wireless adapter if needed
• retractable phone/network/USB cables
• theft alarm
• DC power adapter/long life battery

Usually, several of these items are put together in an "accessory kit" at some discount.

Now, granted, Best Buy is able to use rebates to make some of these things more attractive. And when it's the rebate that makes the main item so cheap, every person who forgets to send it or does it wrong represents additional profit. But the point is that smart retailers make their money by selling accessories, and I've never had any dealer attempt to sell me accessories. Not ammo, not cleaning supplies, nothing. The guy I use now is a gunsmith--what if he offered me (enthusiastically, of course) a tuneup and inspection on every gun I transferred through him, at a mild price? For not much of his labor and no outlay in merchandise he could have doubled the money he made on me, had I taken him up on it. If I hadn't, he'd have lost nothing.
What if he'd said "Well, I charge $15 for that and I do need to have the FFL copy in hand before I can send the gun. I can send out my FFL today and they'll have it in a day or two. Now, is this your first .45? We've got a great deal on 230 grain ball this month, and we also stock reloading components. You'll want this holster so you can try it out at the IPSC--you don't shoot IPSC? I can sign you right up, they do it every Thursday one block over. You won't believe what it will do for your shooting and your confidence, and it's good exercise! No? You're familiar with IPSC, know what it is, why I recommend it, right? Fair enough.
Now, I can also offer you what I call a tune-up package for another $35. (Notice, by offering a little bit of service he's now charging the same amount the other guy purposely quotes to drive away business!) I'll inspect your new gun, clean it thoroughly in my sonic tank, and make whatever adjustments I think are necessary, like smoothing the trigger a little--nothing major for that price, of course, but you wouldn't expect that. That way you don't take home a dangerous gun or one that won't work as advertised, and I can give you solid estimates of whether you'd benefit from a full trigger job, melt, etc. and why.
So does that sound like a good idea to you? (Big smile and don't speak again until after the customer answers you.)

This doesn't have to be high-pressure or smarmy, but you MUST OFFER EVERYTHING EVERY TIME! If you offer it enough times, some people will say yes. If you don't offer it, you get nothing.

Best of all, Wal-Mart has no counter for this and no interest in competing for this kind of business. They're perfectly happy to let you have it.

 

[P95Carry]

Good points there Don .. which reminded me ......... most times I collect a transfer ..... I at very least buy some relevant ammo ... sometimes powder etc .... even if not really needed. It adds to my stock and ... I feel makes my ''use'' of the dealer that much less ''exploititive''.

I asked my guy a while back when i got my raging Lunatic from him .. to get me some .454 ammo ... unfortunately he got the Winchester 250 grain ''pussy cat'' load ..... but I have taken all but one box off his hands because i appreciate what he does ...... and I need the brass anyways for reloading later.

It is all a case I feel, at a personal level ...... of ''what goes around - comes around'' and fair to all.

 

[MAKOwner]

I'm sorry, even charging a very small amount for a transfer they are making money with zero overhead for that item, and very very little real work. Most "headaches" associated with a transfer, the customer ends up doing alot of the legwork for... The dealer doesn't locate the gun, doesn't haggle on price, doesn't do CRAP but receive the gun, unpack it, do the transfer and poof, money for very little work.. I will not apologize for "exploiting" a dealer by giving him my money to perform a service. If he doesn't want my money then he can kiss my @$$ and I'll go somewhere where they'd rather have the $25 and the potential for more later instead of $0 and no chance of one red cent in the future either...

Now it's a little different if they have the gun I want to order sitting there for a reasonable price. But most of these jokers have nothing even similar yet refuse to do a transfer, and are quite rude about it??? That's called being a dumbass and a poor businessman.... Even if it was the most unreasonable request in the world you damn well oughta be polite as a dealer, rudeness people don't tend to forget...

 

[Daedalus]

My local gun shop does transfers for 35$+5$ fee. They also sell heavily handled display guns for MSRP or only slightly below. I really want to support independent gun shops but it is really difficult. If I want a gun I find myself getting it on gunbroker and transferring through a local FFL who does it for 15$, or getting it at Walmart.

This week I went in to check out a Savage 10FP as a potential first 308 paper gun. I took a look at the gun sitting there on the racks. Slight wear on the stock, a little scratch on the barrel, the bolt has obviously been run a lot. The price tag on it read 565$. I asked if this was the best cash price for the gun, reply was yes. Asked if that was for a new, boxed gun, "No, but you do get the box that gun came in." I went to Walmart right after that, perused their order catalog and saw the same rifle, new in the box for 460$, pick it up in the store in 7 days.

What exactly do we need gun shops for when they charge more than anywhere else for a damaged - even if only slightly so - product?

 

[Kodiak AK]

I had to call around when I got my Griffons from CDNN. Bear Country said they do transfers at $50 a gun . Cy's said they don't even bother with it .They checked the PC to see if they where on File with CDNN and then saent out the F.F.L. So after I talked to the guy at Bear Country I mailed out the M.O. to CDNN , and got the ball rolling on it . A few days later I went in to pick up the pistols , and they told me seeing as i did all of the ordering and payment parts it was only going to be $25 a gun instead .
I used the other $50 to grab some ammo while I was there and left happy as a pig in a pen .

 

[starfuryzeta]

I'd love to spend more of my hard-earned cash at local shops. Really, I would. So, I price shop.
I know that if they have what I want, but its over $100 for what I can get on the internet, I'm going net. $50 for xfer and shipping is still $50 extra for me to spend on ammo and supplies.
Now, I will ask if they can come down on items in stock, but I'd say 80% of the time, they won't.
I guess I'm a bit jaded, cause ever since I got my C&R, I got edumacated on prices and what the internet has to offer.

 

[artherd]

"Some times gunshops have been in business sooooo long, they know the fastest way to talk themselves out of any future business."

SO very true, and this is coming from a small buisness owner!

After getting rather bruske responce on my custom rifle, I called several gunshops in a 100mile radius. They were all either squimish, or downright rude!

This was QUITE a shock, for a first time 'transfer' request.

Local shops charge $200 more than internet retailers for many guns, nearly double for ammo than the local WalMart, and wonder why their patronage is down?


I really do feel for these guys, this state in particuliar makes it VERY hard to be an FFL and stay out of jail these days, but COME ON PEOPLE! I hate to say it, but your retail model dates back to 1911 too.

Oh, my story has an ending;
Lastly, I called my local place back up, this time I asked to speak to the owner. "I've got a custom gun coming in, could you guys do the transfer?" Reply: "Sure! Come on down." Spent half an hour there chatting, I will definately buy the 'off-the-shelf' type guns there. I even picked up 3 boxes of medium quality .30-06... for nearly $90.... <sigh>



Bottom line, communication, and more than a small dose of state-of-the-industry, and you will be successful. But it's not like getting your oil changed.

 

[Beav]

...but COME ON PEOPLE! I hate to say it, but your retail model dates back to 1911 too.

I find it a little odd that most gunshops don't even have a webpage. Maybe its different for gunshops but I'm guessing it's almost mandatory for most businesses.

Also whats keeping a local gunshop from extending its business to the internet? I don't own a gunshop so I wouldn't know.

 

[Werewolf]

Don GOT IT RIGHT!

Basicaly the business model that local gunshops use is going to have to change. They will have to focus on customer service, gunsmithing operations, ammo and accessories - and doing transfers. They simply cannot compete on price - period. Walmart and the internet dealers will smoke'm every time.

Hell - even if they sold firearms at their cost they couldn't compete with Walmart and the internet. They don't buy factory direct - they buy from distributors and distributors charge based on purchase volume and the small shop volume per store isn't one millionth of the volume Walmart does and can't compete with the internet guys who buy direct from the factory.

The problem is that most gunshop owners I've dealt with aren't business men. They inherited the shop, bought or started it out of a love for firearms. They don't know even the most basic of business principles. Add to that, that with a only a few exceptions they're all cranky old bastards or smart a-s-s kids of the cranky old bastards and you've got a recipe for failure.

But somehow they just keep struggling along making just enough to pay the bills and put food on the table - lucky for them running a gunshop is a labor of love because under the current model most operate under they sure as hell aren't gonna get rich.

 

[BigG]

I would...

but then maybe that's why I'm not a gun dealer.

 

[ceetee]

Don Gwinn

You are the man!

I've only bought two firearms in the last few years, both at gunshows. There, all the dealers have a list of all the other dealers who do transfers, and you just pick the one closest to you off the list. No hard feelings, no "I could have sold you that cheaper"... nada.

Before I bought, I was shopping for a model handgun that very few stores stock. Most gun stores I went into told me they didn't have one so I could kick the tires, but would be more than happy to order it for me, if I would be kind enough to pay up front... "Yes, a deposit of 50% (non-refundable) will do..."

One guy even implied that if I wanted anything other than a 1911 pattern .45, made by a company that starts with the letter "C", I was hardly worth doing business with.

If I had the investment capital, I'd love nothing more than to open up a competing shop, just so I could follow Don's model...

 

[hillbilly]

I understand that some dealers may be reluctant to do transfers.

But when I do the math, I think the only reasons they refuse to do them is either emotional or ignorance.

Buyer's responsibilities: Find the firearm. Contact seller. Go find a transfer dealer. Pay for the firearm. Pay for the shipping. Pay for the transfer.

Transfer dealer's responsibilities: Sign a photocopy of an FFL. Fill out 4473 upon the sale. Take buyer's transfer fee.

Basically, the transfer FFL makes money for photocopying and signing one piece of paper, and then doing the paperwork associated with every other sale.

It's like printing free money.

hillbilly

 

[WhoKnowsWho]

I can't understand how some resent it when they make $50 + 10% of the gun price for a background check!

The guy I go to is $20 flat, it's fine with me!

 

[Amish_Bill]

Hmmm.... don't need to do background checks on me... maybe I can get it done cheaper?

(CCW = pre-approved NICS here)

 

[hillbilly]

Here's how I get transfers done. I have done transfers with three local gun shops. amd thus spread out the transfers so no one dealer feels like I'm "using" him.

Of course, I'm not "using" him, I'm giving him free money, basically.

I go to the dealer with the folloing in hand.

Internet print off of the firearm. Contact address of the seller. Envelope addressed to the seller. Check or Money Order made out to seller including the shipping. Cash to pay for transfer fee.

I explain to the dealer that I've found this firearm that I couldn't find in town for a really good price and ask if he would do a transfer. Most of the time, I've called ahead on the phone to see if that FFL does transfers at all first. I go only to the willing ones.

I have everything in order. Basically, all I need from the dealer is an ink-signed photocopy of his FFL. I tell the dealer over and over that all he has to do is sign the FFL and then do my background check when I come to pick up the gun.

I make sure to say, three or four times, that I am paying for everything on the gun, even the shipping. He will be out zero money in this transaction.

They always go for it.

Shoot, wouldn't you? I would love to have a series of transactions where I got paid $10 or $15 or $20 to make one photocopy and then sign my name on the paper.

hillbilly

 

[FPrice]

I am currently selling a S&W Model 41 to another club member. Here in the People's Republic you can do person-to-person transfers but you have to use the same Commonwealth form that dealers use. You are SUPPOSED to be able to get this form from your local PD but good luck trying. Some dealers charge a fee to do the transfer. Mine just gave me the form from his own stock. Of course, I drop a couple thou there every year.

It's just good business sense on the part of the dealer. If he/she has good business sense, they'll take care of good customers. Of course, if you are a PITA you should not expect your dealer to treat you like a favorite son.

 

[RobW]

There are quiet a view posts about gun-shops lately. A lot of them don't realize that times have changed. It looks like the threat for small gun-shops isn't the BATF or the big chains, but the lack of ANY customer service and rudeness of the shop-owners/employees.

If they don't change their attitude, they'll see their "businesses" gone. Fast.

 

[Pilgrim]

I'm sorry, even charging a very small amount for a transfer they are making money with zero overhead for that item, and very very little real work.

Overhead is a misunderstood term. It includes rent, utilities, real property tax, inventory tax where levied, fees for compliance inspections where assessed, security alarm systems. Essentially every direct and indirect cost that must be paid to keep the doors open.

In some states the process is much more complex. In California not only is the form 4473 completed, but also the state Dealer's Report Of Sale. After that is done thumbprints have to be taken, copies made of drivers license, copies made of proof of residency, and copies of the handgun safety certificate or of a qualifying document for HSC exemption.

All of the information on the DROS has to be entered into the computer for transmission to DOJ, and in return a hard copy of the finished DROS off the computer has to be printed and signed by all principals and the dealer.

I have helped my neighborhood dealer do the computer work while he does the writing on the 4473 and DROS worksheet. It takes him about a half hour to do everything. For 30 minutes work he gets a whopping $10, the most he can charge on a private party transfer. $20 an hour. Since he is self-employed, figure half of that goes to income and self-employment tax.

From what I can see of the retail gun business, being a dealer is like being a large hunting carnivore. For every "kill", read 'sale', several walk in the door and walk out without buying any thing. All those no-sales have to be spread among the sales.

Another thing to consider from the dealer's point of view. He gets incentives for volume sales from his vendors. He gets no consideration from his vendors for the number of transfers he performs.

Pilgrim

 

[Peetmoss]

I have only ever transfered one gun, and it was only available at one dealer. The transfer was free, although I did slip the dealer a 20 for his time.