FFL Transfer Fees

[waterhouse]

And those are all expenses that you have elected to incur in the course of opening a RETAIL business, open to the public, having a tangible stock of merchandise, etc., so don't give me any whining about the few people who ask you to do a transfer. If you really believed in the RKBA, you would do it for free.

How are you sure about this? Maybe he undertook those expenses with the plans to solely transfer firearms and take special orders, with very low inventory to keep the overhead low.

Even if it is a retail operation with tangible merchandise, you yourself bring up expenses. When someone starts a business, they usually (hopefully) take the time to figure out their expenses and then figure out how much they need to make to pay those expenses and make a profit. For a gun dealer, income comes from gun sales, accessory sales, transfers, etc. Why would they give away one of their forms of income for free?

He is free to operate his business (be in dealing in firearms, house painting, dentistry, whatever) in the manner that he chooses, as long as he operates within the law. You are free to use his services or not.

Have you ever worked in a gun shop? Have you ever handled a transfer? Do you have any factual basis for stating that "a few people" ask for transfers?

I do several transfers every day. Probably about 10-12 hours worth a week. How many hours of your paycheck do you set aside every week to donate to the NRA or another RKBA group? Seriously? You imply that by charging for my time I don't believe in the RKBA. I'm a life member and I donate every year to the NRA and TSRA. I'm asking you to put your money where your mouth is and donate 10 hours of your paycheck a week to a gun rights organization.

 

[mgkdrgn]

nor there's a capitalist who saw a need and filled it...i'll bet he could charge more and still run a thriving business

Actually, he was an FFL in DC =before= Heller. He catered strictly to LEO and private security companies. He only -very- reluctantly agreed to deal with the "general public", primary because he was going to be the ONLY game in town, as the DC city council made it abundantly clear they were NOT going to approve (via zoning) any more FFL's in DC.

 

[mgkdrgn]

A few will do them for $50 but invent all kinds of 'rules' on the guise that the ATF makes them. Common ones are:

* No transfers from private parties

That one isn't a rule ... but a business decision. I -will- accept a transfer from a private party ... but only with a copy of their DL ... and that DL has the same address on it the package is coming from.

Why? Because I have to -verify- the source of every gun that ends up in my bound book.

* No gun can leave the store without a trigger lock, and if you don't bring one, we will be happy to sell you one

They didn't make up that one ... at least not for handguns on a national level. You can thank the Youth Handgun Safety Act for that. Any -new- handgun -MUST- leave the FFL with a trigger lock, and you must at least offer one for a rifle. BATFE will check that you have a supply on hand if/when you get inspected. I was fortunate to pick up 100 cheap ones on Ebay just after getting my FFL.

There is only one shop that is decent enough to transfer anything for $30 - even if he has it in his case. He gets all my business, not just transfers. The rest can go pound salt as far as I am concerned.

BRAVO! Vote with your feet an your $'s, always!

 

[mgkdrgn]

If you really believed in the RKBA, you would do it for free.

Ya, and if I really believed in freedom to travel I'd be giving away cars too.

 

[Bear2000]

My guy gets $20 and recently did six guns for $40.

 

[ghoster]

i wont get out of bed for under a hundred.

 

[CoRoMo]

Any -new- handgun -MUST- leave the FFL with a trigger lock, and you must at least offer one for a rifle. BATFE will check that you have a supply on hand if/when you get inspected. I was fortunate to pick up 100 cheap ones on Ebay just after getting my FFL.

Is the operative word 'NEW'?

True Story: I bought a pistol a few years ago from a pawn shop. After the gal behind the counter finished with the NICS, and I paid, she simply handed me the pistol to walk out with. Well, it didn't come with a box, owner's manual, nothing, because it was, well, a used gun bought at a pawn shop. It was too big for me to stuff into my pocket so I asked her for a bag or a box. She gave me a plastic sack like you get at Wal Mart and I wrapped it up in there and walked out. No gun lock.

Anyway, My local sheriff's office has a card board box on a table in their lobby. It reads, "Free gun locks. Take one.". Good way to load up on them for nothing.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

The free cable gun locks were very popular here(with cattle ranchers who used them to lock their gates).

 

[dogtown tom]

mgkdrgn: Lets see, you'll need the local business license, sales tax collection license (and file the monthly returns), zoning approval, Insurance, FFL license, any local firearm dealer license (mine required a $10K bond on top of the license fee), safe for secure storage, ability to store the records (so that you can find a specific one on a moments notice, mind you) for 20 years, and be subject to unannounced inspections by the BATFE with the possibility of jail time if you screw up any of that paperwork. If you are lucky, shouldn't run you much more than, oh $2,000 - $2,500 or so total.

gyvel:
And those are all expenses that you have elected to incur in the course of opening a RETAIL business, open to the public, having a tangible stock of merchandise, etc., so don't give me any whining about the few people who ask you to do a transfer. If you really believed in the RKBA, you would do it for free.

Huh?
Have you read his business plan?
Do you have any business experience yourself?
Do you have a clue about ATF regulations?
What federal or state law requires me to be open to the public?

FYI gyvel, those expenses he mentioned are what an FFL WITHOUT a storefront incurs. With a storefront the FFL's expenses would include rent and utilities for a start. I fully understand why a stocking dealer doesn't want to do transfers- he has inventory that he needs to sell to stay in business. In the eyes of some storefront dealers every transfer they do is one less gun they could have sold from inventory. It doesn't matter that he doesn't have any left handed rifles- he could get one for the right price. Sniviling weenies who cry about transfer fees aren't worth his time.

If you really believed in the RKBA, you would do it for free.

I can't believe an adult would make that statement. Where in the Second Amendment are the words "I want everything done for free" found?

I'm a teacher. If I really believed in educating children I guess I should work for free, right?
How dare our boys in the military accept payment for their service! After all, in your mind if they really believed in freedom they would do it for free and refuse to accept VA benefits when they get out. Right?
I believe in free speech too. That doesn't mean I get the newspaper for free does it?:banghead:

If you don't like how your FFL does business or what he charges- vote with your feet and find another FFL. Or better yet, GET YOUR OWN. I did.

After you get your own FFL, and do five hundred or so transfers for free, come back here and tell me again how to run my business. I think you'll be singing a different song.





.

 

[JohnBT]

If you really believed in the RKBA, you'd give the guns away for free too. And not charge for shipping either.

So there.

 

[mgkdrgn]

I can't believe an adult would make that statement. Where in the Second Amendment are the words "I want everything done for free" found?

Dogtown ... well there is the flaw in your analysis right there.

 

[PT1911]

my friend charges 25 dollars through his shop but will only transfer used guns or guns he has no access to.... otherwise he is competing with himself for a loss and losing money he could make on the gun.

 

[Noveldoc]

To start, I have nothing against FFL folks. It is handy to know them when I want to buy a gun and all of them I know are honest businessmen trying to make the system work for a reasonable fee.

The problem is that the system flat does not work. Major Hasan had no problem qualifying for purchase of a 5.7 mm Pistol. His record was clean and nothing on the form required him to list what he was going to do with the gun.

Mr. Cho of Va Tech probably didn't qualify because he had a history of court commitment to outpatient psych therapy. But there was no data base to catch his lie on the form. And note that it would be a violation of other federal laws for me, a psychiatrist, to violate my client's confidentiality and give information to such a data base. Court records for commitments are public records but that is it.

The guy who stuck the nine in my son's face to rob him had a prior violent felony so he would have never passed the screen. No problem; he just bought a stolen pistol off the street.

Doesn't appear to me this current system is doing squat except hassling honest folk while the BGs still get the weapons they want. And if Sarah Brady and the bunch get more regs, all we will get is more hassles for the good guys and more expensive bureaucracy. Sarah honey, when a BG wants a gun he's not going to bother with finding a FFL. And we have plenty of laws on the books to deal with gomers who misuse firearms. The guy who robbed Dave got 5 extra years for using a handgun in commission of a felony.

Sheesh,

Tom

 

[tigeroldlone]

My dealer sells me both my guns and boots at the same time and only chages $20 for any type of transfer.

 

[Flame Red]

Now here is an example of an outstanding FFL! Unfortunately, he is not in Orlando, but in Tampa. He does FFL transfers for forum members for $15. Found another down in Miami that has a "buyer's club". Pay an up-front fee (reasonable) and he will do all the transfers you want for the cost of the call.

Again, no one like that in my town But two outstanding business men!

 

[docpadds]

We have been thinking of doing the Club type setup, with a membership fee that covers you for transfers for x amount of time. Be interested to see how anyone else that does that handles it.

 

[hotshotshoting]

i find it amusing at the amount of "stone throwing" when you seem to live across the street from the glass house instead of inside it....


the short and skinny of it is... if you dont like the price dont shop there, if you still shop there regardless then you just love complaining...

hey think of it this way you can always get your own FFL and run your buisness how you want.

 

[Flame Red]

We have been thinking of doing the Club type setup, with a membership fee that covers you for transfers for x amount of time. Be interested to see how anyone else that does that handles it.

I believe his buyer's club is doing really well. Not only does he do transfers for just the cost of the call, he will order any gun he can get for a small fee too. Offers group buys on lots of goodes at very very attractive prices. I know he just had a killer deal on subsonic 9mm ammo - half the price I could find it for these days.

I would definitely join if he was in town. No point since he is 6 hours round trip for me.

[QOUTE]i find it amusing at the amount of "stone throwing" when you seem to live across the street from the glass house instead of inside it....


the short and skinny of it is... if you dont like the price dont shop there, if you still shop there regardless then you just love complaining...

hey think of it this way you can always get your own FFL and run your buisness how you want. [/QUOTE]

Except when every single dealer colludes.

 

[mgkdrgn]

"I find it amusing at the amount of "stone throwing" when you seem to live across the street from the glass house instead of inside it....

the short and skinny of it is... if you dont like the price dont shop there, if you still shop there regardless then you just love complaining...

hey think of it this way you can always get your own FFL and run your buisness how you want."

Except when every single dealer colludes.

Ya, I'm sure they have a meeting once a month in the back room of some bar and decide to set the prices on everything. If you can prove that, it's a crime and you can put them all out of business.

If you can't,, get your own FFL, don't go to the meetings, set your prices below theirs, take all their business and make your fortune. It sounds like a wonderful opportunity staring you in the face!

The bottom line is in order to stay in business your income MUST exceed your expenses. To MAKE A LIVING at your business, they MUST exceed your expenses by a great deal. You generate that income by charging your customers for the goods and SERVICES they purchase from you.

If you are a small FFL, it is difficult, if not impossible, to make any money by selling new guns. Why? Because there is -always- some large volume dealer selling the same gun on Gunbroker or some such for -less- than an independent FFL can buy it for wholesale.

 

[dirtyjim]

i very rarely buy anything new or anything that i can't get with my c&r & 90% of the guns i buy are from online sources. the few times i need to have a transfer done it's just as much or more of a pain for me as it is for the dealer. i also have better luck buying from individuals than dealers here lately about being promt to shop & including any paperwork with the rifles.
i have one rifle right now that i've been waiting on for over two weeks to show up at my dealer. the seller who is an ffl does not answer his phone or return emails, but has outstanding feedback so i'm reluctant to give him an F rating on gunbroker & start on the refund process for my postal money order until i hear for him. he has one more week till it hits the fan.

i occasionally sell off a gun or two on gb & i always include a more than enough information in a packing list for whoever receives the gun to do their paperwork & notify whoever the gun is for & i email tracking or delivery confirmation numbers to the buyer.

 

[hotshotshoting]

Except when every single dealer colludes.

dont you think that statement is a bit broad?


i mean seriously every dealer colludes?

do you understand the idea of value? and how people find said values?

well the value of an object is determined by what someone is willing to pay for something....

if the greater majority are willing to pay a certain amount for a service then thats how much the service is worth...

if you are "cheaper" than the majority of people then you have your own choice to make like i said before...

you can either buy somewhere else, get your own FFL and charge whatever you want..

or you can argue on an internet forum......

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

There are about 5 FFLs in the city where I live.

They all charge $50 for transfers, and not a single on will except transfers from individuals.

 

[nitetrane98]

Geez, I'm going to buy donuts for my FFL tuesday morning. He hands out copies of his FFL. You can mail them, fax them, email them, whatever you want. He takes guns from individuals for transfer. Calls you when they come in. No muss, no fuss. All for 25 bucks. For the guys that want to throw in all this overhead expense and stuff, let's look at it this way. I've walked in and was the only customer in the place. The two hourly paid employees are sitting there chatting. They're going to be paid whether I do any more than get a cup of coffee or buy something. If I'm transferring a gun they are going to get 25 bucks + tax for the 15-20 minutes of work they are going to do. That works out to approx 100 bucks an hour. If he's charging 75.00 for transfers, he's getting nothing from me.
The guy charging 75.00 is telling you, "I really don't want to mess with these things, if I have to you're going to make it well worth my time." Heck, help the guy out. Don't be mean. Take your business elsewhere.

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

Is that legal??

 

[mgkdrgn]

Geez, I'm going to buy donuts for my FFL tuesday morning. He hands out copies of his FFL. You can mail them, fax them, email them, whatever you want.

Just means he ain't been "burned" yet. Personally, I hope his luck holds out. I'll take a personal transfer as well ... with proper id prior to the shipment.