FFL Transfer Fees

[gyvel]

"...and had to pay the local gunshop $75 for the FFL transfer."

How many of you out there think that $75 is a reasonable amount of money for an FFL dealer to charge for sending a 10 cent Xerox of his FFL and sending it to another dealer with a 45 cent stamp?

I know that an FFL dealer is in business, which means that he/she is trying to make a living for themselves, but, come on. A merchant's income is supposed to come mainly from selling goods, not from taking advantage of a client due to arbitrary Federal laws that restrict/disable interstate commerce, especially when those laws were intended to tighten the noose in a never ending effort to restrict firearms ownership.

A transfer consists of mailing a copy of their license, and, upon receiving the firearm, logging it into a bound book, then, when the recipient comes for the gun, filling in a couple of spaces on a 4473 and signing it.

Altogether, maybe 20-30 easy minutes of their time?

Personally, I have no problem paying an FFL dealer $20.00 for their time and position, but I consider $75.00 to be greedy opportunism.

 

[Evnldr]

my local place charges 25 even told me 25 for 2 guns if I got 2 at a time same place.
75 just makes you wanna have them locate / order it.. or make your good online dal seam.. not so good.

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

I agree with Evnldr.


If all of the gunshops in a town make transfer prices egregious, then people are forced to buy their guns or have them order it.


If someone does pay the transfer fee, the gunshop probably makes off with more than they would've gotten on the markup anyhow.

 

[mnrivrat]

Altogether, maybe 20-30 easy minutes of their time?

While I do consider $75 perhaps to much, I think some have a bit of a misunderstanding what being in business means, and the costs associated with it.
During that easy 20-30 minutes the dealer that is in business is paying for the building they are located in, the utilities to keep it heated, cooled, and the lights on, the insurance , the cost of labor for their employee, the cost of borrowed money from the bankers, the cost of advertising , the costs of fixtures, disposable goods, and on and on.

My point - It is not as easy as some think. Our local shop charges $25 and I think that is cheap.
No - I don't own the shop - I just try to support it knowing that when it is gone, my buying choices will be the big chain stores, or unseen merchandise off the internet. I give first consideration to my local small business gun shop. Depending on the location and cost of doing business there are some places I can see $75 being a fair price.

 

[RevDerb]

Personally, I think that $75 is excessive. My primary LGS does not charge at all for transfers for NRA members and my secondary charges $5.00. I understand $20-25.00 max. Anything greater than that seems to me to be more than is reasonable. I suspect that most of the weapons that FFL's sell out of their inventory do not net $75 profit so charging $75 with the justification that you should have bought it from them because they are in business to make a profit doesn't hold water for me.

 

[chuckusaret]

I just purchased another handgun and I know for a fact I would not pay $75.00 for a transfer fee, I would go elsewhere. It took all of 5 to 10 minutes for the clerk to fill out his part of the 4473, check my portion and to make the phone call and to ring up the sale. If there had been a $75 transfer fee added to his markup over his cost for the gun it would translates into $115 profit from the sale of a gun he paid $285 for. I buy my guns from the same dealer the majority of the time and only pay a $10 transfer fee and in most purchases the shop throws in a box of ammo.

 

[Drachenstein]

Ahhhh capitalism. The point is, if nobody is willing to pay $75 and no one utilizes their services, soon the price will drop. The consumer eventually sets all retail prices, up until the point it is no longer profitable to produce the product. No competition? Get a 01 FLL and become the competition. Offer your services at $35 per transfer,,,,,,,,,, more than 50% less than the competition. No reason you can't profit from their greed. Bet their prices drop then or maybe they don't deserve to stay in business.

 

[ichiban]

$75 is excessive. Period. I use a private FFL at $20 per transaction. And every fifth one is free. Needless to say I've steered friend to him as well.

 

[Acera]

It pays to do your research!!

I pay between $15-20.

$20 guy is a lot closer, but works in Iraq so he is not able to take care of my needs all the time.

These are not my only choices within 20 miles, there are a dozen or so others for about the same price.

 

[atomd]

Ahhhh capitalism. The point is, if nobody is willing to pay $75 and no one utilizes their services, soon the price will drop.

I don't see it the same way. When I see someone charging $75 for transfers I see "We don't want to do transfers here. Buy it from us or get lost". If you found a gun for $100 less than what they charge to order one for you....the shipping and the $75 transfer eliminates that savings. Therefore, they can charge you $100 more for the same gun...unless you can find someone else to do the transfer for less.

Don't get me wrong...I have no problem with them doing that. It's their business and they can do whatever they want. I most likely won't be doing business with those types of places though. I prefer to buy things locally as a rule...but sometimes when there's a special item that they can't get me, I have to get it from somewhere.....and $75 is pretty steep. The going rate around here is $35. I think that's a bit high but not ridiculous. There is a place down the road that charges $60. Their prices are horrible on everything they sell so I don't frequent that place anyways.

A lot of repairmen and mechanics charge what....$80 an hour (with a darn good amount of overhead too!)? A transfer takes ~10 minutes max? Heck, you could hire an attorney for less than that! hahaha.

Oh, I'm a capitalist through and through..and I agree that it does work that way (of course), but it doesn't work with something that you really don't want to sell in the first place.

 

[bababooey32]

and had to pay the local gunshop $75 for the FFL transfer.

$75 is excessive. Period

I consider $75.00 to be greedy opportunism.

Good grief...here we go again. Back to basics folks. Apparently the person who actually paid $75 didn't find it "excessive". They found that, given the possible alternatives, to be the most efficient way to get what they wanted, when they wanted it. Sure it would be nice to get it cheaper...it always is. But given the situation (whatever it was), $75 was the best alternative and therefore by definition not excessive.

By the way, what is "greedy opportunism"? Sounds like entrepreneurship to me. An entrepreneuer is greedy (wants to make money) and an opportuinist (sees a need for a product or service in the market where he can make a profit). Businesses are not charities and they are not providing services to society. Businesses exist for the sole purppose of generating a profit, and maximizing that profit for the owners.

If the local market will support $75/transfer, then that is the makret rate as set by consumers. If the market will not support it, then the FFL will either lower prices to attract business, or he will cease operations if he/she determines that $75/transfer is the minimum amount he can tale and still remain viable.

If all of the gunshops in a town make transfer prices egregious, then people are forced to buy their guns or have them order it.

Nobody is forced to do anything. Maybe you have to drive further to get a gun, or maybe you can get your FFL and undercut the market (since it is so easy, that should be a no-brainer). But in a free market, you are not forced to buy anything. (wait until Obamacare, THEN you will be forced to buyu overpriced services!!)

Markets are incredibly efficient and they communicate very quickly. believe me a $75 FFL won't last long if no one uses him.

 

[freakshow10mm]

How many of you out there think that $75 is a reasonable amount of money for an FFL dealer to charge for sending a 10 cent Xerox of his FFL and sending it to another dealer with a 45 cent stamp?

If that's what they can charge in that market and what their customers are willing to pay, more power to both of them.

I know that an FFL dealer is in business, which means that he/she is trying to make a living for themselves, but, come on. A merchant's income is supposed to come mainly from selling goods, not from taking advantage of a client due to arbitrary Federal laws that restrict/disable interstate commerce, especially when those laws were intended to tighten the noose in a never ending effort to restrict firearms ownership.

A merchant's income comes from whatever goods AND SERVICES they sell and provide. They are not taking advantage of anyone. If you think $75 is too much to pay, then don't get transfers done at that FFL. Simple, really.

A transfer consists of mailing a copy of their license, and, upon receiving the firearm, logging it into a bound book, then, when the recipient comes for the gun, filling in a couple of spaces on a 4473 and signing it.

Plus overhead such as rent, utilites, liability insurance, labor, workman's comp, payroll taxes, CC fees if you pay the fee with a CC. Then there's the being open to ATF visits during business hours, the maintenance of those records, and general risks of being in business.

Altogether, maybe 20-30 easy minutes of their time?

Plus the added cost and expense for maintaining those records for 20 years.

A lot of dealers don't do transfers. If you want a gun buy it from us. A lot of dealers do nothing but transfers. Depends on the dealer and how callus he is with transfers. Some of my most PITA customers have been transfer customers.

They come in to pick up a gun they didn't tell me they were getting, ie a gun just shows up. OK I wait until someone calls and asks about it. Then they berate me for not letting them know it arrived. Well, geez ASK me if I will accept a gun for transfer, when I give you permission to send it to me, provide me with your contact information. Then they whine about politics, tell me about their cat having diarrhea, and a host of other things I couldn't care less about. Then want me to throw in some free ammo with it. Yeah, right. $20 for a transfer to listen to some asshat run his mouth the whole time and he wants free stuff? My door doesn't like butt prints.

 

[Legionnaire]

I can still find local FFLs willing to do a transfer for $20-25. However, fewer and fewer are willing to accept shipment from a private seller; they want to receive only from another FFL. Still have one who will accept from a private seller, but his fee is now $35. Okay for the right gun, but starting to get to the point where I think long and hard about doing an out-of-state purchase.

 

[TheDawgfather]

My guy charges $10 per transfer.

 

[Atroxus]

Simple solution is if you don't want to pay the prices at one retailer let them know by shopping elsewhere. If you really want you could also let the owner know "Hey I can get this done for $xx at whereever, so I will not be using your services any longer." It sounds to me like they are charging well above what other shops charge on average which is his right, but it is *you* that decides who you give your money to.

 

[Ret.CWO]

I was in business for 23 yrs. with an active FFL I never charged more than $25.00 I think $75.00 is outrageous Just my opinion

 

[oneounceload]

Ahhhh capitalism. The point is, if nobody is willing to pay $75 and no one utilizes their services, soon the price will drop. The consumer eventually sets all retail prices, up until the point it is no longer profitable to produce the product. No competition? Get a 01 FLL and become the competition. Offer your services at $35 per transfer,,,,,,,,,, more than 50% less than the competition. No reason you can't profit from their greed. Bet their prices drop then or maybe they don't deserve to stay in business.

Good grief...here we go again. Back to basics folks. Apparently the person who actually paid $75 didn't find it "excessive". They found that, given the possible alternatives, to be the most efficient way to get what they wanted, when they wanted it. Sure it would be nice to get it cheaper...it always is. But given the situation (whatever it was), $75 was the best alternative and therefore by definition not excessive.

By the way, what is "greedy opportunism"? Sounds like entrepreneurship to me. An entrepreneuer is greedy (wants to make money) and an opportuinist (sees a need for a product or service in the market where he can make a profit). Businesses are not charities and they are not providing services to society. Businesses exist for the sole purppose of generating a profit, and maximizing that profit for the owners.

If the local market will support $75/transfer, then that is the makret rate as set by consumers. If the market will not support it, then the FFL will either lower prices to attract business, or he will cease operations if he/she determines that $75/transfer is the minimum amount he can tale and still remain viable.

Quote:
If all of the gunshops in a town make transfer prices egregious, then people are forced to buy their guns or have them order it.
Nobody is forced to do anything. Maybe you have to drive further to get a gun, or maybe you can get your FFL and undercut the market (since it is so easy, that should be a no-brainer). But in a free market, you are not forced to buy anything. (wait until Obamacare, THEN you will be forced to buyu overpriced services!!)

Markets are incredibly efficient and they communicate very quickly. believe me a $75 FFL won't last long if no one uses him.

Nice to see SOME folks get it.

If $75 is too much for you, go elsewhere - NO ONE is forcing you to use that person. You are FREE TO CHOOSE to go somewhere else

 

[MinnMooney]

The Trading Post - $10

After checking 15-20 FFL holders in my area about 5 years ago I came up with this conclusion -

1.) Many firearms dealers ask very high transfer fees because they think of it as "punishment" or a sort of "tarriff" because you didn't purchase from them.

2.) Make LOTS of calls to every FFL holder in your area after getting lists from places that sell guns on-line like Bud's Gun Shop http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php or
GunBroker.com. They will ask for your zipcode and give you lots of FFL holders.

3.) Those people/shops that sell firearms as a minor part of their business are BY FAR the cheapest and easiest to deal with.

I have 2 shops (both are Pawn Shops) that charge $10 and I've transferred many firearms thru them. It only takes 15 minutes of their time and they tell me that they are happy to do it. They've charged that price for 5 years that I've been going there and they told me that they have no intention of raising their prices.

Other shops charge $10-$25 but the local firearms businesses charge $35-$50! and I think that is gouging.

 

[freakshow10mm]

and I think that is gouging

You don't have a clue. Gouging is when a retailer inflates the selling price when there are no other retailers.

This transfer stuff is not gouging. There are other retailers that can provide the same service. It is also usually defined when the subject is basic needs of survival, not luxury items like firearms and ammo.

A hurricane cuts out power and water supply, a bottled water vendor heads the the area and charges $100 per bottle. That's gouging.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Other shops charge $10-$25 but the local firearms businesses charge $35-$50! and I think that is gouging.

it's never gouging, if there are other choices, and you choose to pay what they ask

 

[oneounceload]

Other shops charge $10-$25 but the local firearms businesses charge $35-$50! and I think that is gouging.

As freak said - IT IS NOT GOUGING.....it may suck, but it is not gouging - your post says it all - "other shops" - then go to the other shops

 

[RP88]

I use an exotic fish and aquarium store for my transfers; I pay 10-15 bucks per gun. Apparently an FFL and a license to import exotic species are synonymous. Although, it will be weird when I go to pick up my SKS and get odd looks from other customers buying fish...

 

[middleground]

gunbroker buyer resources

If you're unhappy with the local dealer transfer fees, you might be able to track down alternatives under the buyer link on gunbroker. They let you search for ffl holders by zip code.

I found a guy that did gun sales out of his house as a second job, and charged very reasonable rates. He was a little surprised when I called, and and it was a little strange to knock on the front door of his family home, but it all worked out.

 

[MinnMooney]

Well e-x-c-u-s-e m-e !!

You don't have a clue. Gouging is when a retailer inflates the selling price when there are no other retailers.

gouging (as per the on-line Random House dictionary) :

to extort from, swindle, or overcharge.

I won't be as rude and disrespectful as you were to me, Freakshow10mm, but many people are gouged thru the simple process of not knowing what the going rate is..... as per the original poster's statement,

Quote:
"...and had to pay the local gunshop $75 for the FFL transfer."

He thought he "had to pay" $75 to get a firearm transferred.

When I said that I think that's gouging, I meant what the FFL charged the person who thought he "had to pay".

Please try to refrain from jumping on other high roaders until you halfway understand what they've said. Your remark was extremely rude.

 

[dogtown tom]

I know it's only ten cent copy and a stamped envelope.....

Complaining about the amount of time you THINK your FFL puts in for your transfer is exactly as misguided as complaining ablout how much it cost when:
-your faucets leak and you call a plumber to install a ten cent "O" ring.
-your car AC won't work and your mechanic fixes it with a ten cent fuse.
-your computer keeps locking up and all the Geek squad guy did was run an antivirus program on it- he didn't even install any parts!

Get the point?

True, I might spend all of eight minutes face to face with a customer when doing a transfer. I can guarantee that significantly more time is spent on all the other minutiae of completing a firearms transfer and the required recordkeeping.


For the transfer fee I charge (see my sig line below) I only get to:

1. Handle & store firearm deliveries from four shippers (USPS, UPS, FedEx & FedEx Home)
2. Notify customer that his firearm has arrived & schedule a time for his pickup.
3. Log firearm into my bound book.
4. Review the customers 4473 for ommissions & errors.
5. Complete my part of the 4473.
6. Call in the FBI NICS check.
7. Pay for a bigger safe (not everyone picks up their gun the same day it arrives)
8. Pay for my firearms dealer insurance that covers customers guns in my possession.
9. File & store the Form 4473's for TWENTY YEARS along with the bound books.
10. Stay current on ATF/FBI regulations (if I mess up I could go to jail).
11. Maintain business records for Federal income tax, state & city sales tax.
12. Send and receive FFL for incoming & outgoing firearms.

As others have pointed out- capitalism is good. If the transfer fee at "Jim Bobs Gunz & Liquor" is too high- GO ELSEWHERE!:banghead: If the fee is $75 per transfer the dealer may be telling you that he doesn't really want to do transfers.

I think my fees cover about half what it costs me to do business.