Do I really need the FFL Cert to ship a gun?

[Lovesbeer99]

I'll start simple. I buy and sell guns on Gunbroker a few times per year and my practice for selling a gun has been to make sure I have a copy of the FFL cert on hand for me to verify its a valid FFL and then I'll ship the gun.

The problem is lately some FFL's don't want to fax or mail their FFL cert to an individual or won't accept a gun shipped from an individual.

Now - I sold a rifle and the FFL told me they will give me their cert # for me to look up on line but they don't want to send it to me as they are in fear the I will use it for my own purposes. So if I have the number and I only ship the gun to the address that is listed on line to the FFL isn't that the same as having the cert on hand. I mean honestly even if I have the cert in hand I still check it on line with the FFL check link I found on Gunbroker. The goal is to make sure I only ship the gun to a legitimate FFL with a current cert.

So with our electronic age, do I really need the cert on hand? Even if I have a cert on hand I still check on line to make sure its legit anyway,

I appreciate the feedback. Thanks in advance.

 

[dogtown tom]

All you need is the first three and last five digits of the receiving dealers FFL number. You can then check ATF EZcheck to see if his FFL is valid.

Nonlicensees (you) do not need the actual FFL copy, only the number.
Licensees (dealers) are required by ATF to have possession of the receiving dealers FFL copy before shipping.

 

[Bubbles]

This is one area where I really want to do nasty, evil things to the people who run GunBroker, as they tell non-FFL sellers to get a copy of the transfer dealer's license. Non-licensees do not get a copy of my license - period - and most dealers have the same policy. Instead, non-licensees can use FFL EzCheck to verify my license before shipping a firearm.

 

[rajb123]

I have run into this problem on the buying side. My former FFL refused to send his paperwork to the seller because the seller was not an FFL.

 

[CoRoMo]

...they are in fear the I will use it [license] for my own purposes.

Like what? How could some distant/detached person use a copy of someone else's FFL?

Always heard and known that licensees don't like copies floating around out of their hands, but never really knew exactly why.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Everybody's FFLs are listed here:

http://www.atf.gov/about/foia/ffl-list.html

It appears as if the 2012 links are broken, I haven't looked to see why, but the 2011 archive links are working.

 

[bikemutt]

Like what? How could some distant/detached person use a copy of someone else's FFL?

Always heard and known that licensees don't like copies floating around out of their hands, but never really knew exactly why.

These days with good quality, cheap scanners and software it wouldn't take much to doctor the shipping address, or anything else, on a FFL certificate. Of course, if the shipper uses EZ Check they might notice the discrepancies, or not.

 

[CoRoMo]

Yeah, I was thinking if someone walked into Sportsman's Warehouse with a copy of an FFL and claimed to be a representative of that company and try and buy a gun without the 4473/NICS. But that seems more far fetched than what you described.

 

[bikemutt]

When you add up all the laws broken and charges filed if a person got caught doing something like this, it really has to go down as a terrible idea. But, I've lived long enough to see otherwise smart people hatch and execute even the most amazingly stupid plans

 

[Shadow 7D]

Navy, I believe that the 03 are excluded from that list as they are private citizens and entitled to privacy, per law.

 

[Twmaster]

03's are not on that list. You have to call the 800 number at ATF to verify an 03 holder.

 

[Scimmia]

This is one area where I really want to do nasty, evil things to the people who run GunBroker, as they tell non-FFL sellers to get a copy of the transfer dealer's license. Non-licensees do not get a copy of my license - period - and most dealers have the same policy. Instead, non-licensees can use FFL EzCheck to verify my license before shipping a firearm.

Wow, seriously? The dealer I use for transfers handed me a few copies of his FFL for use in future purchases the first time I went through him. I don't understand what you feel is so secret.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

There is no law that says you must do this. It is completely legal for a non-FFL to ship a gun to a FFL with proper procedure.

The problem is lately some FFL's don't want to fax or mail their FFL cert to an individual or won't accept a gun shipped from an individual.

Leaving aside their motivations for doing so, they are going beyond the provisions of the law. I suppose it is possible someone might send you a fake copy of the FFL, but that seems pretty remote.

 

[Bubbles]

A lot of FFL's don't do it because it's too easy to fake a copy of the license, change the address, and then use it to have guns shipped somewhere else. And yes, it has happened more than once.

 

[Shadow 7D]

MOST FFL won't disclose their or offer copies of their license due to concerned of a person altering the FFL, hence why you check EVERY FLL you get, as it may be a good FFL, with the address block altered or similar.

 

[Art Eatman]

Scimmia, odds are that as a known person, your dealer trusts you enough such that he doesn't worry. It would be a different matter if you were a first-time customer.