Do you ever leave your guns in the car?

[Taurus 66]

I find it ridiculous when I read post like "my employer won't let me carry my .45 on my side at work at the krisy kreme". Why would you even want to???? Can someone explain that to me without getting all blustery and high and mighty?

It's better to have and not need than to need and not have.

Do banks get robbed? Do 7 Elevens get robbed? I'll bet ya any amount there are a good number of Arbys, Breugers Bagels, Burger Kings, Hardees, KFCs, Micky Ds, Taco Bells, and general Mom & Pop stores getting rolled over daily, Krispy Kremes too. Some armed robberies end in tragedy. ' Wanna venture a guess who's the victim? That's right, the poor unarmed sucker behind the register.

(But Duncan Donuts AMAZINGLY never gets hit ... hmm ... wonder why that is. I'll have to investigate that further.)

 

[wallysparx]

i keep my sks in my truck. i don't have a ccw, but the rules on keeping a long gun in the vehicle aren't very restrictive. it stays unloaded and out of sight, while a couple loaded stripper clips are ready to deploy where only i can find them. and if nothing else, it makes for a great club on one side, and i'm sure the idea of getting stuck with a blunt bayo makes for a great deterrent too.

 

[jeil]

When Missouri passed the CCW law it included a provision that made it legal to have a loaded concealed handgun in one's automobile without applying for a CCW permit.

I purchased a second stainless Ruger GP100 6" revolver to leave in my car. I keep it (loaded) under the passenger seat in one of those nylon zipper carrying cases plus I keep a box of shells in the center console. I only remove it from this location if I am going out of state.

It probably takes me 15 to 20 seconds to get to it, and if you add to that reaction time to realize that I need to get to it, then it will only do me good in cases where a minute delay in getting it in my hand will not matter.

I do not worry about theft as mostly I am in a rural area where an auto breakin is less likely, plus I am an old fart who takes his dog with him whenever I go to the "big" city and while he is generally friendly to strangers, for some reason he barks like crazy if someone approaches the car while he is in it.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

It's better to have and not need than to need and not have.

Do banks get robbed? Do 7 Elevens get robbed? I'll bet ya any amount there are a good number of Arbys, Breugers Bagels, Burger Kings, Hardees, KFCs, Micky Ds, Taco Bells, and general Mom & Pop stores getting rolled over daily, Krispy Kremes too. Some armed robberies end in tragedy. ' Wanna venture a guess who's the victim? That's right, the poor unarmed sucker behind the register.

(But Duncan Donuts AMAZINGLY never gets hit ... hmm ... wonder why that is. I'll have to investigate that further.)

Talk about paranoid crap...you have a far better chance of being struck by lightning then being taken hostage in or be involved in a bank robbery. Although, that very reason you gave of better to have and not need is better than needing and not having is why I carry a pistol in my car so I agree with you to a certain point. As far as employees being defenseless during a robbery...the fact is that clerk/cashiers that were armed were involved in more fatal shootings than unarmed clerks according to the 2004 statistics. If you have a job that is soooo dangerous and you are not allowed a weapon then get another job if you truely feel unsafe. I just feel that the vast majority of people are not stable/mature/competent enough to carry a weapon.

 

[IndianaDean]

It doesn't matter if you feel some shouldn't have guns. The Bill of Rights gives us the right AS INDIVIDUALS, not a militia. The statement that it has been well established the 2nd Amendment refers to a militia is absurd.
The Founding Fathers were very explicit about it being an individual right in other quotes. In fact, here is a link to just some of those quotes.

http://www.saf.org/pub/rkba/general/FoundersQuotes.htm


I'm armed almost all the time. The one time I thought "it's ridiculous and paranoid to go around armed all the time" and went out without anything was the one time I was robbed at gun point.
My dad had a friend who lived in the middle of the country in a very quiet, safe area. Until someone kicked his front door in one day and murdered him to rob him. He didn't have any weapon at all. He may have thought at the time that even having a gun in the house qualified people as being 'gun nuts'. Well, he's not around now to debate it.
We do not live in a safe, secure world, Katrina proved that. I don't much care what anyone thinks about me wanting to be armed all the time. If the "stuff" ever does hit the fan, I expect to at least have a chance at surviving. And that won't have any chance at occurring at all if I've left my weapons at home.

I have some friends who are in Law Enforcement. Their advice to me was "Carry all the time, and carry with a round in the chamber."

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

It doesn't matter if you feel some shouldn't have guns. The Bill of Rights gives us the right AS INDIVIDUALS, not a militia. The statement that it has been well established the 2nd Amendment refers to a militia is absurd.
The Founding Fathers were very explicit about it being an individual right in other quotes. In fact, here is a link to just some of those quotes.
I have some friends who are in Law Enforcement. Their advice to me was "Carry all the time, and carry with a round in the chamber."

Actually, the amedment clears states "militia"...you can reference non official historic quotes all you want but the supreme court of most every state has had to base their decisions on the wording of the amendment itself and not other sources. Our founding fathers were not morons. if they wanted it to say every man has a right to be armed at all times don't you think they would just have said so. Most of the quotes on that page refer to the right of a citizen to own a firearm. Their are just as many refernces that clearly state that owning and brandishing are two different things. Also, I was in law enforcement and if any officer you know actually tells someone something that ridiculous they need to find another job. I am not "cop-bashing"...in fact I have the highest regard for 99% of law enforcement...especially the troopers I trained with and under.

 

[epijunkie67]

Talk about paranoid crap...you have a far better chance of being struck by lightning then being taken hostage in or be involved in a bank robbery. Although, that very reason you gave of better to have and not need is better than needing and not having is why I carry a pistol in my car so I agree with you to a certain point. As far as employees being defenseless during a robbery...the fact is that clerk/cashiers that were armed were involved in more fatal shootings than unarmed clerks according to the 2004 statistics. If you have a job that is soooo dangerous and you are not allowed a weapon then get another job if you truely feel unsafe. I just feel that the vast majority of people are not stable/mature/competent enough to carry a weapon.

Sorry to hear you feel this way. I carry almost all the time precisely because you have no way of knowing when you're going to need it. People get car jacked at the red light, get robbed pumping gas, get mugged at the ATM, etc etc. ???? happens. If I could predict exactly when I was going to be involved in a dangerous encounter I would just avoid it all together. By definition I'll need to use my weapon only in a situation I didn't expect in the first place.

Hell, there are people on this board, and others, who know people who were attacked checking the freaking mail. One guy here was watching TV, heard the doorknob jiggle, and when he checked the door a stranger burst into his living room. Our guy was carrying IN HIS HOUSE and drew his weapon to defend himself. I'm sure you'd consider him a paranoid nutcase, except for that whole protecting his family from a home invasion thing.

Bottom line, good people have to defend themselves all the time, at all hours, in all kinds of situations. If you chose to spend most of your time unarmed thats great. If you think the risk is low enough that it's not needed then that works for you. By that logic if they ever get traffic fatalities down to 4 or 5 thousand a year I can stop wearing my seat belt because my risk will be so low I won't need it any more.

No thanks. I'll carry that two pounds of steel every day anyway, just in case. I'll find some way to live with the fact that I'm a paranoid nutjob.

 

[epijunkie67]

Actually, the amedment clears states "militia"...you can reference non official historic quotes all you want but the supreme court of most every state has had to base their decisions on the wording of the amendment itself and not other sources. Our founding fathers were not morons. if they wanted it to say every man has a right to be armed at all times don't you think they would just have said so. Most of the quotes on that page refer to the right of a citizen to own a firearm. Their are just as many refernces that clearly state that owning and brandishing are two different things. Also, I was in law enforcement and if any officer you know actually tell someone that they need to find another job.

How about this unverified source? The United States Department of Justice.
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm

A single quote from the conclusion, "For the foregoing reasons, we conclude that the Second Amendment secures an individual right to keep and to bear arms."

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

How about this unverified source? The United States Department of Justice.
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm

A single quote from the conclusion, "For the foregoing reasons, we conclude that the Second Amendment secures an individual right to keep and to bear arms."

The reference you made is of a written opinion by a political official. Not a law or any binding statement.

 

[IndianaDean]

[QUOTEAlso, I was in law enforcement and if any officer you know actually tells someone something that ridiculous they need to find another job. [/QUOTE]


Sure they do. I'll stand by the LEO's I know. I think we're done here.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Hell, there are people on this board, and others, who know people who were attacked checking the freaking mail. One guy here was watching TV, heard the doorknob jiggle, and when he checked the door a stranger burst into his living room. Our guy was carrying IN HIS HOUSE and drew his weapon to defend himself. I'm sure you'd consider him a paranoid nutcase, except for that whole protecting his family from a home invasion thing.

Bottom line, good people have to defend themselves all the time, at all hours, in all kinds of situations. If you chose to spend most of your time unarmed thats great. If you think the risk is low enough that it's not needed then that works for you. By that logic if they ever get traffic fatalities down to 4 or 5 thousand a year I can stop wearing my seat belt because my risk will be so low I won't need it any more.
.

I thought I made it pretty clear that I felt a person had every right to bear arms and protect themselves. And take most events you hear on here or any entusiasts site with a grain of salt. I myself have had to brandish a weapon before and it probably saved my life. I was the target of an attemted car jacking in Birmingham, AL...Also, your seat belt logic is terribly flawed...if the way lives where saved was by wearing seatbelts then it would counter act that statistic if you did not wear one. If it was because cars were made so safe that you did not need a seatbelt due to passive restraints then you would not need to wear one. This whole if everyone was armed there would be no crime is crap...it would just mean criminals would have to shoot you in the back then take your wallet instead of taking a chance on you shooting back.

 

[Geno]

PlayboyPenguin

The comment you make regarding carry at all times seems innocent and uninformed. To lodge insult regarding the paranoia, even if per mere choice of being armed at all times, seems counter-intuitive on a gun board such as THR. I suspect that those who have been a victim once refuse to be a victim twice. Regarding the matter of the Constitution, I cannot believe that no other person has affronted the assertion of the individual's V. militia's rights, etc.

You do make one good point, and that is travel through undesirable areas. Where I work is not extraordinarily secure, but it is beautiful and peaceful. Most people refer to this college as ". . .43 acres of Heaven in the bowels of Hell". You should see the neighborhoods I have to travel through coming and going. In the 18 months that I have taught at this college, there have been over 10 shooting/stabbing deaths within less than 1/2 mile of the campus. Two of those deaths were less than 1/4 mile away; 1 was across the street, 1/2 block away. One was a former student and co-worker from my department.

His still vacant desk and chair lie 30 feet down the hallway from my office. They serve as a daily reminder of how anti-gun HE was. At his funeral, the minister and the family decried the evils of guns, "...go sign an anti-gun bill! Ban all of the guns! Do not rest until there is not one gun, not one bullet left in America!" Perhaps if either he, or his employer had possessed a gun, the four (4) of them might yet be alive and still working in their little fast food joint.

For my own self, the police just cannot possibly respond sufficiently fast, and sufficiently reliable to make me feel safe without my CCW. As my CCW instructor told us, "The police will arrive too late over 99% of the time. He was the county S.W.A.T. director for 30 years. He assured that, that was an accurate statistic, not a flippant statement.

But, I guess what it all boils down too is choice. There are dozens of choices and occurrences in life that I do not understand. Why does my wife wear make-up? It hides her natural beauty. Why does she have more than 1 pair of shoes? How many pair of shoes can she wear at one time? I guess it's choice. We live in a reasonably free society, and we live in a reasonable violent society. You seem to see the world as half safe; I see the world as half dangerous--and we're both right. Regarding the I.M.S. (insure male syndrome), well that was rather comical.

So, in reasonable and calm response to your question as to the why men feel the need to carry 24/7, for my part, because I can; and because I choose to do so.

 

[epijunkie67]

The reference you made is of a written opinion by a political official. Not a law or any binding statement.

3 of them actually. And the ones charged with knowing, defining, and applying the law in such matters as it applies to the entire country. But you are correct in that they are not in and of themselves, the law.

By the way, you brought up "the militia". I'm sure you're aware that at the time the 2nd amendment was written "the militia" consisted of all able bodies adult men able to fight? What we consider the national guard or other militia type organizations didn't come along until several years after the fact.

There are several counter arguments to your position but I'd rather not go into them here as we are getting into thread drift. It would be best if you were to make a seperate post about it which would allow a more full discussion if it's something you wanted to develop more.

 

[torpid]

And take most events you hear on here or any entusiasts site with a grain of salt...

...I myself have had to brandish a weapon before and it probably saved my life. I was the target of an attemted car jacking in Birmingham, AL...

An unfortunate juxtaposition of statements.


(sorry, it struck my funnybone at this late hour)

 

[Taurus 66]

Talk about paranoid crap...you have a far better chance of being struck by lightning then being taken hostage in or be involved in a bank robbery.

I want to see the statistics. Can you provide them?

If you have a job that is soooo dangerous and you are not allowed a weapon then get another job if you truely feel unsafe.

So thugs can push me around and dictate where I should live or work, or, I can take a chance and work a job in a high crime district, but do so without self protection of any kind. If this is the best of your reasoning, you'd better go find another profession yourself and quit trolling the boards.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I want to see the statistics. Can you provide them?



So thugs can push me around and dictate where I should live or work, or, I can take a chance and work a job in a high crime district, but do so without self protection of any kind. If this is the best of your reasoning, you'd better go find another profession yourself and quit trolling the boards.

Some people's paranoia never ceases to amaze me. As for the statistics...you obviously have a computer. use it. or are you afraid Rummie and cheney are looking at your google searches?

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

By the way, you brought up "the militia". I'm sure you're aware that at the time the 2nd amendment was written "the militia" consisted of all able bodies adult men able to fight? What we consider the national guard or other militia type organizations didn't come along until several years after the fact.

Are you saying that the 2nd Amenedment is outdated since we now have national Guards and State militias? I am missing your point.

 

[k_dawg]

Some people's paranoia never ceases to amaze me. As for the statistics...you obviously have a computer. use it. or are you afraid Rummie and cheney are looking at your google searches?

“A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity” Sigmund Freud

 

[Sawdust]

playboypenguin sez:

the vast majority of people are not stable/mature/competent enough to carry a weapon.

You need to work on your casting; the splash was very loud.

Sawdust

 

[k_dawg]

So just leave guns where they can be easily obtained by criminals (due to the "hassle" of carrying or securing them), and if the gun is used in a crime it's c'est la vie?

Leaving it up to the conscience of the criminal not to steal your gun and hurt anybody with it is not really the best way to approach things in my opinion.

This is not even close to the same logic of blaming the victim of rape.

It's more akin to a lazy prosecutor letting a rapist go free on a minor technicality because he couldn't be bothered with preparing for the case. Then, when the rapist strikes again, shrugging and saying "Meh, it's just the system. Not my wife or daughter, anyway. It's all his fault, he really shouldn't be raping anybody."

.

No, it is because I have not succumbed to the leftoid "victim" clap trap.

We are all responsible for our own actions. That includes the criminals.

 

[torpid]

No, it is because I have not succumbed to the leftoid "victim" clap trap.

We are all responsible for our own actions. That includes the criminals.

Yes, and if folks were a tad less cavalier about leaving their guns "hidden" in the glove compartment or under the car seat, the criminals would have to look a little harder for free guns than through the passenger window.

I'm not absolving criminals of their culpability, nor am I calling for any kind mandatory laws here.

I'm simply advocating car carry for easy access when you are in the car, and droppping a bit of cash on a car lockbox/safe to secure it in when you have to leave it in the car (one safe someone linked here even starts at $29).

If someone gets shot with your stolen gun it may not be your fault, but why not try to curb that entire situation in the first place if it doesn't hinder your immediate access (car carry), or cost much in time/money (a few seconds to secure the gun, starting at thirty bucks)?

.

 

[beaucoup ammo]

"An Ounce Of Prevention"

.."is worth a pound of cure." The old saying is a self evident truth for a reason. An axiom carved in stone.

I've been chided by family and friends for being paranoid, overly concerned..you name it, because I pack All The Time. And have since my wife and I were mugged about 18 months ago leaving a restaurant right after dark. I'm not in good physical shape, using a cane on occasion, and am probably deemed an easy mark by the scum in this world. And, Brother, they are out there.

I've mentioned it before and seems worthy of repeating in this thread. I obtained my Texas CHL immediately after that incident and feel more confident so far as protecting the well being of my wife and myself. I will never forget the fear in her eyes, and the feeling of helplessness on my part. It won't happen again.

Hate to be cliche..but don't wait for something Ugly to happen before taking precautionary actions.

One second truely can change your life forever. If it's something you could have prevented were you armed..well, that cloud will hang over your head the rest of your life.

Take Care.

 

[losangeles]

I usually don't leave my guns there. I only put them there if I'm going to be on the range that day. But, I might make stops on the way to and from the range, and I'll have those guns in the back of the car. They're all locked up, though, as required by law. No ammos in the back with them. Ammo is in front of the car separate from the guns.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I've been chided by family and friends for being paranoid, overly concerned..you name it, because I pack All The Time. And have since my wife and I were mugged about 18 months ago leaving a restaurant right after dark. I'm not in good physical shape, using a cane on occasion, and am probably deemed an easy mark by the scum in this world. And, Brother, they are out there.

That is a perfect example of when someone should carry a pistol. If you are older, ill, etc....anything that would make you seem like an easy target for miscreants. There are certain factors that make it more likely you will be attacked. That is just a fact.

 

[M2 Carbine]

I just do not understand guys that feel like they need to carry a pistol all the time. I can unserstand if you have a dangerous job, travel into questionable area, etc... but just carrying out of some weird need to feel protected borders on paranoia to me....either that or some other insecurity issue. As for our right to carry a pistol it has been pretty well established that the 2nd amendment refers to militias and organized and regulated establishments which is why states can make laws that ban handguns for private citizens that withstand court challenges. I am pro-gun ownership but I do feel that their are limits as to when it is appropriate to carry a loaded weapon. Why would someone need to carry a pistol to work or to a daycare or to the grocery store. I find it ridiculous when I read post like "my employer won't let me carry my .45 on my side at work at the krisy kreme". Why would you even want to???? Can someone explain that to me without getting all blustery and high and mighty? Are they afraid that the government is going to turn against them so suddenly they will not be able to make it home.

You have lead a rather sheltered life haven't you?

I could give you case after case after case of things that have happened to me, around me, and to people I know, including me being a Policeman, a killer's threat against my Wife's life, and on and on, but you have bought hook line and sinker into those anti gun talking points that you aparently believe.
I'm sorry, and no offense, but I think you're a lost cause.

One day something may happen to wake you up, and I hope you survive it.