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Doing business with the enemy.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by F4GIB, Mar 9, 2004.

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  1. F4GIB

    F4GIB Member

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    This company owns/manages the Mall of America in Bloomington, Minnesota. They BAN the carry of firearms in the Mall by those with Minnesota carry permits. They operate malls in 37 states.

    Do they ban licensed carry in every state (or do they just discriminate where they think they can get away with it)???

    Carry permit states with Simon Malls include: AL, AK, AZ, AR, CO, FL, GA, IN, KY, LA, ME, MI, MT, MO, NV, NH, NM, NC, ND, OK, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VT, VA, WA, WV, WY and MN.
    See their malls listed at http://www.simon.com/find_mall/

    Simon Property Group, Inc., headquartered in Indianapolis, Indiana, is a real estate investment trust engaged in the ownership and management of income-producing properties, primarily regional malls and community shopping centers. Through its subsidiary partnerships, it currently owns or has an interest in 247 properties in 37 states.
     
  2. jsalcedo

    jsalcedo Member

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    Yeah there are two Ingram Park Mall Rolling Oaks Mall San Antonio Texas.

    No signs though.


    The Texas sign requirements are so disfiguring to the asthetics of a building
    all but the frothing at the mouth, socks with sandals liberals forgo the posting.

    In San Antonio I've seen them try to post a compliant sign but alas they didn't post in both languages, or the color was not right and the letters were not big enough. so I am totally within my rights to ignore it.


    The only time I saw a compliant sign was at my wife's doctors building.
    Everything was in order...drat... Oops they forgot to post at one side entrance. Lucky me...too bad for them. Good thing the liberal minions are incompetant boobs.

    Sadly other states probably have less onerous signage requirements.
     
  3. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    i think our 5th avenue mall here in anchorage is a Simons...

    never seen any signs on the entrances. their security is weak anyways.
     
  4. Sportcat

    Sportcat Member

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    Never seen a legal no CCW sign in our Anderson, SC mall (Simon operated).
     
  5. outfieldjack

    outfieldjack Member

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    Per Grassroots SC...

    If I remember correctly, there is only 1 "Compliant" sign in the whole state of South Carolina. So no matter how many "wrong" signs there are, we can still carry legally!
     
  6. Sportcat

    Sportcat Member

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    That one place in SC is an IHOP in Myrtle Beach.
     
  7. jhisaac1

    jhisaac1 Member

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    Don't worry. They've all got tactical response teams available to set everything 5 by 5 until the local police show up.

    (Sorry. I couldn't resist.)
     
  8. tiberius

    tiberius Member

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    According to your link, they own the "North East Mall" in Hurst , TX. This mall is fairly close to my house and they do NOT post bans on CHL holders. It seems to be a local thing in one/some of their malls.
     
  9. Porter Glockwell

    Porter Glockwell Member

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    no signage at Utah Trolley square... and even if there were there is no statute backing it.

    Porter
     
  10. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    I don't ever do business with anti-Second Amendment bigots.
     
  11. Renegade

    Renegade Member

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    Don't have any of their malls in my part of NC. Cross Creek Mall in Fayetteville does have NO FIREARMS signs posted at the mall entrances. Lucky for me I don't go to the mall, hate the crowds.

    Later,

    Dave
     
  12. .45Ruger

    .45Ruger Member

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    I was at thier Metrocenter mall in Phoenix this weekend and didn't notice any signs, so I carried there.
     
  13. MBG

    MBG Member

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    No signs at the Fashion Centre at Pentagon City (Arlington VA), though I haven't been there for about 2 years now.

    (With a name like "The Fashion Centre" complete with fancy spelling, you KNOW it's overpriced).

    Marty
     
  14. nico

    nico Member

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    No signs at any of the malls I go to.


    Oh wait, there's no CCW here :( :banghead:
     
  15. AZ Jeff

    AZ Jeff Member

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    I gotta ask a question here: at least here in AZ, if one walks into private property marked "no weapons", and is detected carrying a weapon by the owners, the most you can be charged with is tresspassing.

    Generally, most stores would handle such an event by asking you to leave the premises with said weapon. Only if you refused would the situation escalate to a criminal charge.

    Given that CCW is just that (CONCEALED), how many of us do the equivalent of "dont' ask, dont' tell", and carry (concealed) into places marked "no weapons" or similar?

    I know in other states laws may be different, but I have to think it's relatively common here in AZ.

    (For AZ residents, please note that I am NOT talking about the laws that prohibit carry into bars, courtrooms, etc. I am talking ONLY about carry into private business establishments, which includes shopping malls.)
     
  16. Werewolf

    Werewolf Member

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    Simon owns 2 malls in Oklahoma City - Heritage Park and Penn Square. Neither has anti-CCW signs on their entrances that I'm aware of. In fact I've only seen one No Firearms sign in Oklahoma since I got my CCW and it is at - of all places - where I work!

    Oh - and there's one on the front entrance of Midwest City Memorial Hospital but there aren't any No Firearms signs on any of the other entrances which makes it (in my estimation - which may be wrong) not a legal sign so I carry there anyway.
     
  17. Samurai Penguin

    Samurai Penguin Member

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    I don't think they can actually do that. IIRC, there's a clause in the law that says that landlords cannot forbid their tenants/guests from possessing weapons.

    Joel R, you wanna get in on this?
     
  18. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    First, under Minnesota law, landlords may NOT ban carry by their tenants or tenants' guests:
    (http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/624/714.html)
    It has not been tested in court yet, but the presumption is that this applies to commercial landlords as well as residential ones.

    Ergo, the Mall of America has no legal right to post, and such signs may be disregarded.

    Second, none of the four "anchor" stores -- Sears, Bloomingdales, Macy's and Nordstroms -- post, nor are their signs between these stores and the mall.

    Ergo, AGAIN the mall is not properly posted. Signs may be safely ignored.

    Third, in order for a violation of law to occur, this must happen:

    1) Properly posted premises.
    2) Verbal notification.
    3) Compliance demanded.
    4) Asked to leave by merchant.
    5) Refusal of CCW holder to leave.
    6) Arrival of police

    At this point, a $25 petty misdemeanor trespassing ticket may be issued.

    All of the above must be present. As you can see, you have to be told to leave and refuse to do so before a violation occurs, even at a legally posted location.

    Truth be told, I always carry -- sign or no sign! Concealed means concealed, and I'm breaking no law!

    IF I carry into a legally posted location AND I am notified of the policy AND compliance is demanded AND they notice I am carrying AND they ask me to leave, I certainly will. And no crime has occurred.

    Hasn't happened yet; I doubt it will. :)

    Gotta love this law. Thanks, MNCCRN!
     
  19. ny32182

    ny32182 Member

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    I've been to all four malls listed between SC and NC, and I've never seen signs at any of them.
     
  20. Soap

    Soap Member

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    Must be unique to MN then. None of the Simon malls here post any sort of sign or warning.
     
  21. Carlos

    Carlos Member

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    I know I guy who operates that way. :rolleyes:

    I'm with the others as far as spending my money at places who disrespect my rights. It just don't happen.
     
  22. nemesis

    nemesis Member

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    There are a couple of Simon Malls here in the Rio Grande Valley and they definitely do not post prohibitions against the carrying of arms. I was also in a Simon Mall in Tyler recently and there was no weapons posting there either.
     
  23. ksnecktieman

    ksnecktieman Member

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    renegade? You are not going there anyway? Be an activist. Take a saturday afternoon. Print some flyers on your pc, saying you are not going to purchase anything from the vendors in that mall because of that restriction. Then go to the mall, and hand one to the manager of each store inside, politely. Then find the mall manager, and give him one, and tell him you have passed them to each store:):). Maybe even take some thumb tacks, and stick on on any public bulletin boards there too? Do you have any buddies that will help? Take plenty of flyers, you may want to hand them to some shoppers too.:D

    If anyone asks?????? You are doing it "For the children"!!
     
  24. rust collector

    rust collector Member

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    Mall of America has been the site of a number of gang-banger dustups, and I suspect management is inclined to cool the turf wars a bit by chilling the carrying. Of course, we know thugs and wannabes are astute readers of signs...
     
  25. jsalcedo

    jsalcedo Member

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    Our simon malls have signs at the doors posting against colors and offensive slogans on T shirts.

    It took me forever to find out what "colors" were.

    I went one mall wearing a Binford tools T shirt jeans and a joe camel hat.
    The security guard told me they didn't allow colors on the premesis. I asked him what colors? Blue?

    He said my hat was a problem...I asked him if Joe Camel was the name of a new gang.. He said I needed to turn the hat around with the bill to the front or leave the mall. :rolleyes:
     
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