DoJ ca, Made me turn in my ar lower

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Bill is right, I did a dumb thing, but did I thought it was legal as long as the upper was not attached.

I did not want to start a panic. I just wanted other gun guys not to do what I did, I have paid a lot of $ for this mistake. I hope others learn from this.

I still hate the GC in this state. And if we could get new jobs in Nev, arizona, Montana, etc, I would not be here to deal with it.
 
This is a shame!

I wish you the best! How is it that the powers that be treat us like criminals because we choose to K&B arms? Take legal action ASAP to get it back if you can!

Doc2005
 
Wait what, let me get this straight, they confiscated your lower that was not attached to an upper? How is that ok? I for one plan to build a single shot A/R with a detachable mag - will they confiscate my lower too?

As for the people at the DOJ firearms div being tools, I personally have found them to be very nice. They return your calls when they say they will, are polite and courteous, and attempt to assist you to the best of their ability. They are after all normal folk, not lawyers...
 
Im done with this guys, the point has been made. yes the DOJ dude I talked to was a tool.

He was rude, threatenening and had no respect. Any group that is paid by tax dollers should be public service orientated. Like I said, I am done with this.

It was a heads up. Thats all. And brainiac, If you put a pistol grip and illegal stock on your lower. Your intent to make it a single shot will not matter. Did you Join the THR just to say that. If so troll somewere else.
 
If it has a detachable mag, it ain't a single shot.

Please, if you're building a rifle from an off-list lower in CA, read the FAQ on Calguns. Presence of an upper doesn't matter. A lower w/pistol grip and open magwell is evil.

Go directly to prison unless you're lucky like Sgt Steve.

Bill Wiese
San Jose
 
If you cut the pistol grip off and cover the rear retaining pit spring with a nub about 1/2" thick, you may have a removeable 10 round mag, if you don't have a flash hider and you must have a fixed stock. . . now if you can have a 10 round removeable mag, well one of those 11+ round mags fits, I would think? I don't know, I'm really new at this AR15/M16 thing (jokeing) But if you don't have an Evil Pistol Grip or an Evil Collapsable buttstock or a really evil flash hider ... you are allowed to have a some what evil removeable 10 round magazine :uhoh: This set up isn't as user friendly, but it doesn't change the characteristics of the rifle very much, it's just not as comfortable to shoot.

WORD to anyone else that has run ins with the CA DOJ and AR15's; When the lower isn't assembled in any way, TOTALLY STRIPPED ! It isn't illegal. One inserted pin, one pistol grip screw makes it considered assembled, TOTALLY STRIPPED NOT ILLEGAL.

CA laws are stupid, I got a verbal warning for slipping the vertical grip on my AR onto my buddies Glock, it was on for about 5 min at the public range.

Love the weather in CA, love the people I meet in CA, but when my acitve duty time is over, I'm back to the mid-west... There'll be plenty of Ruby-Ridge's if CA ever decided to start knocking down doors takeing all the "off list lowers", alot of people are into them and there's several pretty creative things wrapped around the mag release being disabled and reenabled with "tools". It would suprise you how many pre-ban AR's are around too, once you know the law, you can work your way around it.
 
WORD to anyone else that has run ins with the CA DOJ and AR15's; When the lower isn't assembled in any way, TOTALLY STRIPPED ! It isn't illegal
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Well it depends on the lower. If it's on the banned list, it's an AW whether it's assembled or not.

and there's several pretty creative things wrapped around the mag release being disabled and reenabled with "tools". It would suprise you how many pre-ban AR's are around too, once you know the law, you can work your way around it.
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The laws are pretty clear.. you either have a fixed magazine or pistol grip.. Not both.
Anyone who has a AR-15 and didnt register it back in 2000 is in violation of the law.. they can be in a heap of trouble if they get caught.

People trying to skirt the law and trying to figure out "creative" ways to have a pistol grip and detachable mag are gonna end up buying themselves a one-way ticket to felonyville.
 
Pardon my ignorance. What does "off-list" mean?

Never mind. I figured it out. Means off the list of banned guns, right?
 
Pardon my ignorance. What does "off-list" mean?
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In California, AR-15's are banned "Assault Weapons", but due to a court decision, the state is forced to list the model of AR-15 that is banned. There are several on the list.. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/kaslist.pdf .. Obviously there are a bunch of different makers of AR-15's though. So people simply buy AR-15 receivers that arent on the ban list.

The important thing to understand is CA also bans "Assault Weapons" by features. If you have a centerfire rifle with a pistol grip and detachable mag, then it is an illegal assault weapon. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/genchar2.htm

This means that just because you were able to legally obtain an "off-list" lower receiver, does NOT mean you can build it up into a fully functional AR-15 with detachable mag and pistol grip. You have to fix that magazine or fire it without a pistol grip.

The DOJ has basically told people that their fixed-mag builds are technically legal, but not every DA in CA's 58 counties will necessarily agree. Basically they're passing the buck and saying "build at your own risk"..

Some companies sell pre-made fixed-magazine CA AR-15s.. they have gotten the blessing from the DOJ to do this though. Bushmaster sells one of these rifles.. http://www.impactguns.com/store/AZC-C15RM4FT.html

It seems the DOJ does not approve of the method people are using to fix their magazines for their self-built rifles.. the DOJ is looking to ammend the law so that a fixed magazine is permanent. http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/awdefnotice0606.html
Everyone is concerned with what the definition of "permanent" will be .
 
Originally posted by Malum Prohibitim regarding "DOJ" guy.

Quote: "Is he right? Legally, I mean . . ."


Malum: Something struck me about that question, (which we ask all the time about all sorts of things) The thought was-isn't "legal" supposed to equal "right" or "fair"? I always thought the purpose of "law" was to establish justice.

More and more these days, the world "legally" seems to mean a method in which a bunch of government agency employees find a manner in which to make sure that an "administrative rule or regulation" results in their ability to arbitrarily tell you "you are in trouble".
 
I think Bill's summary is right. Stevo may have had an over-enthusiastic interpretation of "CA-legal AR". Everyone please check that your tinfoil hats are shiny side out and fitted snuggly.

-steve

PS: CA DOJ still has 6 of my AR receivers, seized illegally in the "Milpitas Debacle", still unresolved but good people are on the case. Hey, the gun laws may suck, but its not like we live on a fault line or anything, surrounded by clueless moonbats... oh... wait... forget what I just said.
 
As for the people at the DOJ firearms div being tools, I personally have found them to be very nice. They return your calls when they say they will, are polite and courteous, and attempt to assist you to the best of their ability. They are after all normal folk
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That was always my experience.

Love the weather in CA, love the people I meet in CA, but when my acitve duty time is over, I'm back to the mid-west
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LOL! That was me! I was in the valley for seven years. From my front yard I could see both the Sierras and the Coastal Mountain Range. I loved the Sierras.

Mixed emotions.

But one thing's for sure. There are no taco trucks/taquerias in Tulsa.
And I miss those.
 
Why do you live in a communist hell hole that severly crimminalizes what is legal for most US CITIZENS? I would not voluntarily move to Cuba. Once there I would not be free to leave. You are free to leave Kommiefornistan. I would be breaking the speed limit to get out. What is wrong with people that live there? I would not give up my liberty for any sum of money.

The wrong biomasses move to Colorado from Komiefirnistan and try to change it to Kommielorado. Send us the other ones! I suppose I am Constitutionally proteceted from the "progressive BS", but they don't stop their whining. And they don't obey the Constitution.
 
The kg/mm of the recoil spring can be modified so that the round will eject but a second round will not feed without the user pulling all the way back on the charging handle for non-semi automatic operation.

Semiautomatic: "the operating mode of which uses the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to extract a fired cartridge and chamber a fresh cartridge with each single pull of the trigger."

I personally do not believe the California penal code prohibits the possession of a fully assembled lower with an open magwell but without an upper. The chances of having to explain it to a judge? Probably reasonably high.
 
Oddly enough we DO have taco trucks and taquerias in Columbus, Ohio. Good food generally too! One of the best Hamburgesas I have had in a while came from a taco truck at a junkyard.

Back on track, would a thumbhole stock with removable mag be legal in CA?
 
"If it has a detachable mag, it ain't a single shot."

What about a pump action? Is that legal for CA with a detachable mag?

But, hey Stevo, I feel for you. I have had many opportunties to double my salary, but no way will I freely move to that state. (I am pleased to see people refrain from suggesting that you tell them "Molan Labe"--not so easy to do when looking at the possibity of a felony or prison time.)

I'm glad it wasn't worse for you.
 
I personally do not believe the California penal code prohibits the possession of a fully assembled lower with an open magwell but without an upper. The chances of having to explain it to a judge? Probably reasonably high
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If it has a pistol grip on it you'd be in big trouble. If you want a pistol grip the mag must be fixed in place and non detachable without the use of a tool.
 
ryoushi said:
If it has a pistol grip on it you'd be in big trouble. If you want a pistol grip the mag must be fixed in place and non detachable without the use of a tool.
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Yup. The receiver = rifle, and with pistol grip and/or telestock it'd most likely be regarded as a no-no. You might have a possible defense otherwise but don't expect success.

I'm seeing a variety of misinformation on the above posts w/regards to ARs.
  • AR lower receiver is separate from 'type of action'. So I don't recommend having a bolt or pump upper (i.e., nonsemiautomatic) on an off-list lower because, if separated, you likely would be regarded as having an (illegal) AW if detachable mag were used.

  • AR lower receiver is separate from centerfire vs rimfire considerations. Putting a 22LR upper on a regular AR lower would, similar to above, not mitigate things if a detachable mag were used. However, DOJ seems to have said multiple times that if "22LR" caliber is marked on an off-list lower, then the 'prime purpose' of the lower is 22LR and 12276.1 generic definitions are not triggered with 22LR upper and pistol grip and open magwell. (I'm sure some idiots will try to re-mark their lowers w/22LR and go straight to jail.)

  • The above concerns don't apply to off-list AKs and non-FN FALs simply because the serialized receiver and type of action (semiauto vs manual, centerfire vs rimfire) are directly associated with each other (nonseparable without full disassembly, unlike ARs.


Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA
 
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