Don't bring a knife to a gun fight

[usmarine0352_2005]

This just happened in the city I work in.


http://www.startribune.com/local/98246694.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUUr

Minneapolis police: Bouncer killed man outside of Grumpy's bar

By PAUL WALSH, Star Tribune

Last update: July 12, 2010 - 4:56 PM


Police said the man who was killed outside a northeast Minneapolis bar early Sunday morning charged at a bouncer with a knife and then was shot to death by the bouncer.

Tirso Cruz Gomez, 24, of Minneapolis, died early Sunday outside Grumpy's, a popular neighborhood bar in the 2200 block of 4th St., according to the Hennepin County medical examiner's office.

Police found Gomez dead in the street when they arrived about 1 a.m. One person was detained at the scene but later released.

An investigation is continuing but police spokesman Sgt. Bill Palmer said Monday afternoon that the shooter was defending himself and had a conceal-and-carry permit for his weapon.

Palmer said details of the investigation will be forwarded to the Hennepin County attorney's office this week.

Gomez, who lived in the 3800 block of Johnson Street NE., is the city's 28th homicide victim this year. Last year's 19 homicides in Minneapolis was the smallest number in a quarter-century. The 10-year average is 48.

Paul Walsh • 612-673-4482

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

.
What do you bet this won't make the National News.


Sadly he couldn't defend himself in Chicago like this, even after our win in McDonald.

 

[NMGonzo]

Homicide victim?

He attempted murder on the bouncer!

 

[KarenTOC]

Homicide is the killing of a human being by another human being.
Murder is intentional, premeditated homicide.
The bouncer killed another human being, therefore it was homicide, but not murder.

 

[danprkr]

Had a situation like this in Galveston when I lived there. A crazy guy off his meds charged the cops with a butcher knife. The cops shot him, and the black community was up in arms even though one of the cops involved was black. They really didn't like it when I pointed out that you should NEVER bring a knife to a gun fight.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

serious failure in the decision process.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Homicide carries with it neither a negative or positive connotation. It simply means the killing of one human by another human.

 

[Hardtarget]

Not trying to argue this, but, to call this homicide sounds worse than " self defense". I know you are correct in your definition of homicide...it just hits my ear wrong. Always has.

Mark

 

[9mmepiphany]

think how stupid it would sound if you used self-defense in the sentence

the city's 28th self-defense victim

i'm pretty sure you don't commit self-defense either, the terms aren't interchangeable

 

[ar24095]

I believe the words you are looking for is justifiable homicide. It would sound better than just plain homicide.

 

[MinnMooney]

Misquoted ?

police spokesman Sgt. Bill Palmer said Monday afternoon that the shooter was defending himself and had a conceal-and-carry permit for his weapon

It's hard to believe that a Minneapolis police spokesman would make this technical error. We do NOT have a "conceal-and-carry" permit. It is a carry permit...... we do not have to conceal our weapon in Minnesota in order to comply with our carry permit laws.

i'm pretty sure you don't commit self-defense either, the terms aren't interchangeable

The dead guy tried to commit a murder. The bouncer commited an act of self defense. The terms aren't always "interchangable" because they mean different things. They can be similar in some contexts, however, as in : "The dead guy tried to commit a homicide and the bouncer actually committed a homicide." Comprend'e ?

 

[NMGonzo]

English is my second language, but tagging a self defense as a plain Jane homicide doesn't sound right.

If we assume that the perp with a knife was really a perp, and the shooter was legally clear to defend himself, the "homicide victim" does not sound like a victim to me.

Please, will an English major clear this up for me?

 

[Oyeboten]

Homicide as a word, ended up having a sort of emotional charge and slant associating it with murder, and this then can seem confusing.

Literally, it merely means a human death.

 

[9mmepiphany]

that is why killing of humans are investigated by homicide investigators, but they would charge a suspect with murder.

anyone who dies of a homicide, would be a victim - the human who was killed by another

there are different kinds of homicide, some which are illegal (murder, manslaugter) and some of which are legal/justifiable (capitial punishment, self-defense), but they all fall under the umbrella of homicide which is the most correct term to use.

otherwise you'd use the term "self-defense killing"...i guess you could use "self defense termination", but that seems somewhat pretentious

 

[Dokkalfar]

As people mentioned earlier, homicide is the killing of a person. A victim is someone who is the subject of a certain action. It's not necessarily a bad thing (you can be the victim of a joke, or of an inheritance, etc.. but it has a negative connotation in most conversation so people never really use it in a 'good' way)

So, to be a homicide victim simply clarifies under what circumstances the subject is a victim - homicide. Yes, all of these terms may have a negative connotation when used today, but you actually have to look at context to see what the terms are in regard to.



Basically, the dead knife guy is the victim of a homicide. The bouncer is the victim of an unwarranted attack.

 

[PX15]

Actually...

I would say, "never bring ONLY a knife to a gun fight"...

Jesse

 

[shootr]

Never glad to hear someone died being stupid, but it happens. Seems to me the bouncer was very lucky he was able to get his pistol out and successfully defend himself. He could have been simply very well-trained, but still I'd be feeling lucky too.

I'm thinking a guy with a knife is going to be coming from very close range and I can just imagine myself hastily drawing from my IWB holster while a guy with a knife is charging in.

 

[DustyVermonter]

The Homicide units in police presincts aren't just murder investigators, they investigate any killing of a human being by another human being, be it self defense,murder,involuntary manslaugter,justifiable homicide,suicide,genocide,infanticide. The connotation is how we perceive it and what we associate it with, the denotation is what it actually is no matter how we interpert it. That's the best way I can explain it. Although, Im no english major

 

[wishin]

Not homicide, but Suicide.........

 

[9mmepiphany]

Don't bring a knife to a gun fight

just an awareness observation:

at close quarters, a knife isn't always the lessor weapon...the gun's advantage is the ability to strike at a distance, a knowledgeably employed knife inside "punching distance" is nothing to sneer at

 

[rodensouth]

I would never draw a knife to counter a knife attack, then you are just squared away in a knife fight. If trying to survive, and no gun or stick handy, run. Even if you have to run over them, run. Knife fights are ugly.

If they get you down, then cut to get up, but don't square off. JMHO

 

[Low Budget Shooter]

Dear 9mmepiphany and Rodensouth,

Some very helpful bits of insight, I think, along with good advice.

Thanks!

LBS

 

[shootr]

+1! Agree 100%.

Avoid a knife fight if possible and if not - end it / disengage asap by any means at hand.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

What happens in a knife fight, Loser dies at the spot, Winner dies later at the hospital.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

What a moron, the perp got what he deserved.