Home invasion...by the police?

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Lbys

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This could have been much worse, and I fear the possibility is becoming more common, with the frequency of no-knock warrants and a relatively large immigrant community in the Minneapolis-St. Paul metro area:

http://www.startribune.com/local/12552126.html

Two officers are saved by bullet-proof vests
Minneapolis police said bad information led cops to the wrong house. The resident said he shot in self-defense.

By Patrick Kennedy, Star Tribune

Last update: December 16, 2007 - 10:00 PM

Minneapolis police on Sunday were investigating how the wrong information led them to attempt to search a north Minneapolis house, which led to shots exchanged between police -- who were struck by bullets -- and the resident, who said he was just defending himself.

Two Minneapolis police officers were shot during the exchange but were saved by their bullet-proof vests and helmets, police said in a statement.

The Police Department's SWAT team was attempting to search a house in the 1300 block of Logan Avenue N., at 12:46 a.m. as part of an investigation by the Violent Offender Task Force. But police said that they learned later that the wrong information led them to that house.

"It was found out that this particular address was not part of that long-term investigation," police spokesman Sgt. Jesse Garcia III told KSTP-TV on Sunday. He told KMSP-TV that it was a "bad situation. It could have been much worse."

Garcia said it was not so much a mistake by Minneapolis police but a mistake in the information that was given to them.

Dao Vang, who told the station he is the brother of the homeowner, Khang Vang, said his brother, who does not speak English, thought the police were "the bad guys."

"He took out his shotgun and he said if they are bad guys I'll shoot, I'll scare them away," Vang said. "He fired first, he told me it was two shots."

Khang Vang was taken into custody but later released, according to reports, which said he has a wife and six children.

Garcia did not return repeated calls from the Star Tribune on Sunday. Questions about the shooting on Sunday night were referred to Lt. Amelia Huffman, head of the homicide unit, who also did not return calls.

In a statement released shortly after 5 a.m. Sunday, police said that officers found no one on the first floor of the house. When they made their way up to the second floor of the residence they were confronted by an adult male. The officers identified themselves as police, and the male fired several rounds at them. Several officers returned fire, but no one in the house was injured. The adult male was taken into custody.

No one answered the front door at the house on Sunday night.

Investigations by the Minneapolis Police Department's homicide and internal affairs units are underway. According to standard department procedures, the officers involved have been placed on paid administrative leave during the initial investigation.

The names of those involved were not immediately available.

Despite the fact that most of us speak and understand English, does anyone have thoughts on how to respond in such a situation?

Lbys
 
Maybe this will be deleted as too political, but I have some ideas;

What to do about this kind of stuff? How about making "no-knock" entries illegal. How about reigning in police.

It's stuff like this that ruining things for all the good cops out there. And let us not forget we're bogged down in a third world country thanks to "faulty information," just to show how pervasive this problem is throughout government. But this is the kind of stuff you get from informants who are informants because their other option is the pen...
 
Garcia said it was not so much a mistake by Minneapolis police but a mistake in the information that was given to them.

And not verifying that information was a mistake by Minneapolis police. The Blame falls squarely on them, period, end of discussion.

I don't care how someone identifies themselves; enter my home univited, especially in a hostile manner and armed, and you'll be on the receiving end of defensive fire. Lots of it.

No-knock raids are unconstitutional and endanger the lives of both citizens and LEO's. Why they're permitted is beyond me.
 
What to do about this kind of stuff? How about making "no-knock" entries illegal. How about reigning in police.



Even if the police executed the warrant by knocking and acknowlegding themselves as police officers, the homeowner did not speak English and would not have understood.

The department/city should be held accountable for their actions. The officers entered the man's home illegally. The homeowner responded properly.
 
How about making "no-knock" entries illegal.
That is the only answer.

However the powers that be are not the least bit interested in your rights, your safety or the safety of the officers involved only in "enforcing the law".

Even if the police executed the warrant by knocking and acknowlegding themselves as police officers, the homeowner did not speak English and would not have understood.
the word "Police" is recognizable in several dozen languages.

Spanish = "Policía"
German ="Polizei"
Italian = "Polizia"
Portuguese = "Polícia"
Dutch = "Politie"

you get the idea
 
Dao Vang, who told the station he is the brother of the homeowner, Khang Vang, said his brother, who does not speak English, thought the police were "the bad guys."

the word "Police" is recognizable in several dozen languages.



That's a dangerous assumption to make. With a name like "Vang", I'm guessing Southeast Asian.


Nonetheless, illegal entry and no valid warrant.
 
the word "Police" is recognizable in several dozen languages.

Really? How about languages form eastern Asia?

The guy's name is from Asia, probably SE Asia. I don't think "police" in those languages come anywhere close to the Latin root.
 
I would like to hope that the guy responsible for failing to verify his info got his armor tested, but it was probably just a decent line LEO instead. I'm very glad nobody was killed in this exchange.

I understand that LEOs face an increasing threat from criminals who are more willing than ever to shoot first when they have the chance. Officers are rightfully concerned for their safety. But when some idiot fails to check info and a SWAT team hits a wrong house, that should cost careers. There is no excuse for that kind of mistake, it has lead to deaths of innocent citizens time and again.

The SWAT team is a great tool to have when serving high risk warrants, and it would be danger to all officers if the option to use the team for serving warrants is removed. However there needs to be some very public accountability when things go wrong like they did here.

Maybe a special warrant, making the Judge issuing it fully aware of SWAT use, would be helpful. Make the SWAT warrant take 2 judges to sign off on it? Make sure the only Judges that can sign off on the SWAT warrant are elected, and able to be voted out of office if they are too free with them?

There has to be a way to keep the SWAT raid a tool in the toolbox of the Police, just one that has more controlled use and more PUBLIC accountability when things go wrong.
 
Something to consider, and this goes back to people "waking up" and taking control;

According to Minnesota law the only difference between what an average citizen is allowed in a citizen's arrest and what an officer is allowed, is the union backing the person. If no-knock raids were illegal (like felony level attempted murder home invasion kind of illegal) a citizen would have every legal right to use any method at their disposal, up to and including lethal force if necessary, to bring the suspect(s) to justice. And anybody abusing power or otherwise contributing to such a major foul-up as wrong-house entries would be held accountable.

After all, I see quite often comments like "just deal with it in court," or "let the courts sort it out." I think we should throw home-invaders in jail until arraignment then let the courts sort it out.

Sorry, I'm feeling more uppity than usual tonight...
 
If no-knock raids were illegal (like felony level attempted murder home invasion kind of illegal) a citizen would have every legal right to use any method at their disposal, up to and including lethal force if necessary, to bring the suspect(s) to justice.


Makes me glad we don't have ANY rights in Illinois.


I'm not interested in executing warrants in my neighborhood, but to each his own.


I want the police to handle those situations. We pay them to do just that.

If they can't read the numbers on the house, maybe they need to deputize the Papa John's delivery guy. He doesn't find the task so difficult.
 
Just guessing here, but it doesn't sound like the ossifers managed to shoot back...

How it went down (hypothetical):

"Okay - kick it!"

Bang! Bang!

"Owie! Cough, Choke, Hack, Wheeze!"

"Herro, 911? Dien ki dau numba ten mofos kick in door! I shoot! You come!"

========

Betcha a 'gauge hit center mass really smarts, even with a vest.
 
bogie, stop that!

Mods aren't supposed to laugh!

This is serious stuff.

And Robert? Where the heck do you get this stuff?

However, while I'm still chuckling, I would note this: It wasn't that they mis-read the address, somebody gave them a bad address.

So how long before line cops turn to the guy giving them the address and say, "if this address is bad, I'm gonna come see you personally."

Remember that old "shoot over property" argument?

The "no-knock" raid has, as its primary purpose the preservation of evidence. You know, evidence, i.e. physical stuff, i.e. someone's property.

I think I may have pointed it out before, but the concept that the police, knowingly and with planning, create a situation where deadly force is likely to be used to obtain property, which they deem "vital" to the case they hope to build, is just about as screwball an idea as has ever been put to paper, never mind practice.

And, should you be wondering why it's so vital to preserve [strike]property[/strike] evidence, you need only ask, "how is it that one advances along the political line of law enforcement?" The answer, "by having lots of convictions by one's name," lets you know what the motivation is and to whom your ire should be addressed.

The line cops? I wonder how many of them actually think the no-knock is a good idea? This cluster chuck is politics. Last I looked, most line cops really have little patience with politics.

Time to outlaw no-knock entry.

Human life is supposed to be worth more than . . . stuff.
 
Is it wrong that the first thing I thought after reading the article was "he should have used a rifle"?


No offense to law enforcement officers, but it's only a matter of time before more perps start wearing body armour (makeshift or commercially available stuff) due to the rising use of deadly force in defense by homeowners.
 
no knocks,just say no!

with the criminals using the same no knock
tactics the cops use, it is not safe to presume the guys with
"police" jackets and badges are the cops.
Time for the madness to stop.
 
The Police Department's SWAT team was attempting to search a house in the 1300 block of Logan Avenue N., at 12:46 a.m.

It is like they WANT something bad to happen. Kick in my door at that time, and I don't care what you shout. I am treating it as a true home invasion where someone is trying to kill me.
 
At Quantico, our instructors told us in no uncertain terms why we would never be authorized to use a no-knock entry.

"Crashing down private citizens' doors with out knocking or announcing themselves was a favorite fear tactic of the Gestapao and then later the KGB. We will never do that."

Granted, this was back in the mid-80's. But of all the crack house and meth lab raids I went on, not once did we ever do a no-knock. Not once.

And we still made our arrests.

Jeff
 
with the criminals using the same no knock
tactics the cops use, it is not safe to presume the guys with
"police" jackets and badges are the cops.
Time for the madness to stop.

This.

A criminal regularly involved in home invasions (and I'm not, never have been, and hope never to be near one) would find it would be beneficial to bust the door in with three or four people, longarms with flashlights at the end (even just a .22 with a mini-mag on it) and shout "Police."

+1 to this guy for taking adequate steps to defend himself.

Mewonders exactly what he had loaded in it.

Methinks that it's pretty sad that this random guy shoots twice, hits twice. No doubt the officers fired back (who knows how many times) and yet didn't hit him. Hrmmmmm....
 
I do like the fact that he shot twice, hit twice and they didn't get him. Props to him for defending himself, his home, and his family. The police need to stop going "no-knock" unless they want more stuff like this happening and ending in tragedy.
 
"Vang" sounds like a Hmong name to me. Many Hmong are in this country because they fought with us against the communists. The men that I have met have owned guns for hunting and defense.
 
The technology is available, all officers involved in no knock entry should be required to wear minicams or at a minimum voice recorders with time stamp to insure procedures are followed.

As already stated someone needs to lose their career over this kind of screw up. The civil suit should bankrupt the town.
 
i shouldnt have to wonder if the guys that just kicked my door in is police or not...

hope the guy gets off clean, and the officers dont suffer any long term injuries, and that people learn something from this.
 
Spanish = "Policía"
German ="Polizei"
Italian = "Polizia"
Portuguese = "Polícia"
Dutch = "Politie"
They look the same in writing but they sound differently when spoken.
English: Po-lease
Spanish: Po-lee-see-uh
German: Po-let-sigh (as in "eye")

And I don't even want to think about mandarian (east asian) languages
 
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