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Don't buy a Cooper

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by pacecars, Oct 28, 2008.

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  1. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    fwiw, to a man, everyone i know who has been featured in a newspaper feels their words were twisted out of context and feels misrepresented. so i don't totally trust USAToday to get him right, given their obvious bias and the chaos they probably think they'd cause by having a well-respected gun mfg supporting obama.
    i'd put more weight on what he said on his website
     
  2. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    For those who missed it, here's an excerpt. Or you can read the whole thing at http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...ez-money_N.htm

    What could he say on the radio or on his website that would change this statement?
     
  3. Husker1911

    Husker1911 Member

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    A certain Colonel Jeff Cooper bristles from his eternal reward. Sad the Montana Coopers aren't up to the example Jeff Cooper displayed his entire life.

    Dan Cooper wouldn't be qualified to wipe Jeff Cooper's boots.
     
  4. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

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    Another thought on this:

    Maybe Cooper doesn't care...

    Maybe a lot of his customers are of the same crowd that buy $20,000 shotguns to shoot skeet but who will vote democrat every time and really don't care if the 'average' Joe American can own a pistol or a semi-auto rifle or shotgun. There are plenty of Obama supporters amongst hunters for whatever twisted reason as well.
     
  5. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

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    And just think in another thread people were explaining how a gunstore can't possibly be owned by an anti. Yet here is a GUN MAKER.
     
  6. ArfinGreebly

    ArfinGreebly Moderator Emeritus

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    Jim Zumbo

    Has anyone heard from Jim Zumbo on this?

    Any word from other high profile gunnies -- like, say, Ted Nugent -- on this matter?

    +1 on having Tom Gresham shine a little light on this.

    I would be willing to bet that Tom knows Dan (and that Jim does, too).

    I'm well acquainted with how the press distorts things, and I'd like to hear Dan's own words from Dan's own lips.

    Tom? You out there?

    I don't trust the press here.

    It's too easy for us to be stampeded against our own.

    Jim Zumbo took the heat because of something he, himself, wrote and which he, himself, published. There was no "distortion by the press" in that case. It was his own words by his own hand.

    Here we have a liberal paper with a huge anti-gun bias, who absolutely delight in seeing fracture lines in the gun-owning community, gleefully publishing the most damaging portions of what quotes they have from a respected gun maker.

    Am I willing to go into lemming mode and charge over the cliff about this? Not until Dan Cooper has had a chance to tell us his side of the story, in his own words.

    Yes, I know, I may have to "listen between the lines" a bit, but I still want to hear from him.

    I want to hear what Jim Zumbo has to say when Jim talks to him. I want to hear what Ted has to say.

    Think I'll send a PM to Tom.

    This needs an actual follow-up.

     
  7. HGUNHNTR

    HGUNHNTR Member

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    Geez.....this is why the "average Joe American" never escapes his mediocrity.

    Makes me glad I am a "Non-Average Joe"
     
  8. Tarvis

    Tarvis Member

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    Can someone PM me what a "Zumbo" is? I tried google with no luck...
    Nevermind, found it ;).
     
  9. Horsemany

    Horsemany Member

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    Hey Jerkface,

    He's not necessarily anti-gun is he? Let's not go overboard. Let's not be one issue voters especially with everything that's wrong in this country right now. Flame away!
     
  10. HGUNHNTR

    HGUNHNTR Member

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    Jim Zumbo dared to have his own opinion, bad boy! Shame on excercising your First Amendment Right!
     
  11. Jolly Rogers

    Jolly Rogers Member

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    All I have to say is someone that uses the first ammendment better be prepared for the reaction. Particularly if it is a polarizing statment. Nuff said.
    Joe
     
  12. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

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    HGUNHNTR, once again you display that you clearly do not comprehend the issue at hand, and prefer to limit your contribution to shallow pokes.

    Zumbo was allowed his opinion. Cooper is allowed his opinion. Angry rhetoric aside at their perceived betrayal, very few people will deny these two (and anyone else) their basic right to speak their minds. We *do* object to them trying to take money from us while also denigrating us or otherwise selling our rights down the river.

    Lots of people contribute to all sorts of political compaigns, and lots of people express their political views in public. For example, you didn't see a lot of screaming and yelling when Colin Powell came out in favor of one presidential candidate or t'other. It's his right to hold that opinion, and it's his right to express that opinion.

    But if Colin Powell were to try to profit by selling products that could only exist in the market due to the presence of the Second Amendment to the US Constitution, I would expect that he would be mindful of that dependancy. I would also expect his customers to remind him of that if he were ever to forget it.

    Cooper can hold his opinion. Cooper can try to sell me a firearm of his making while telling me that he directly or indirectly supports radical and sweeping gun control. I can tell him NO THANKS.

    And that's what this thread is all about - all of us telling Cooper, NO THANKS.
     
  13. TT

    TT member

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    No one is trying to infringe on Cooper’s First Amendment rights- but with the right to speak your mind comes corresponding responsibility. If Cooper believes it worth sacrificing the right to own firearms for self-defense in order to end US military operations overseas, then he needs to accept that a lot of gun owners are going to hold that against him. The First Amendment does not require that citizens do business with people who are their political opponents- in fact, not associating with your political enemies is a protected act itself.
     
  14. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    "Crowd?"

    Funny, but if there were a "crowd," you'd think I'd have met a few. As it stands, I can't say I've met even one.

    I've been a member of the Board of Directors of the last open-to-the-public shotgun range in San Diego County for the past year. So it's likely I'd have met a few, if there were a "crowd."

    Yeah, there are Zumbos out there. But a "crowd"? Not where I've been.

    Furthermore, it's stupid for RKBA advocates to alienate our allies due to class envy.

    I am all for keeping my money out of the hands of Cooper, Zumbo, et al. by not buying products, magazines, etc. However, assuming that someone who owns some AAA walnut is anti-RKBA is silly, and it's usually wrong -- I've gotten to know some of these guys a bit better, and I have a bit of a clue about what's in their closets, and what their politics are.
     
  15. hksw

    hksw Member

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    Zumbo certainly has his right to free speech, just like every other EBR owner.

    cooper is still quite active in the company making the meet-and-greet rounds around the country as the head.
     
  16. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    BTW the First Amendment means, or should mean, that the government can't stop you from expressing your opinion.

    It doesn't mean I have any obligation to like what you express, or to continue to support beliefs or politics I abhor. It would be wrong to use government to try to shut someone up (as Obama has tried with the NRA recently), but once I've heard what someone has to say, I have every right to object, and act on those objections using whatever legal and moral means I have at my disposal.
     
  17. Gaffer

    Gaffer Member

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    From The Shooting Wire:
    Did He or Didn't He?
    Internet chat rooms and discussion boards are boiling over after a report by Ken Dilanian of USA Today said Dan Cooper, "chief executive of Cooper Arms, a small Montana company that makes hunting rifles" was a supporter and donor to- the Obama for President campaign. According to the USA Today story, Cooper donated $3,300 to Senator Obama's current campaign and had donated to his 2004 Senate campaign after he was "dazzled by Obama's speech at that year's Democratic National Convention." As you can imagine, this hasn't gone down well with gun owners.

    But is the report true? This statement posted on the Cooper Firearms website would seem to indicate otherwise:

    "Regarding the USA Today Article. Cooper Firearms of Montana, Inc. did not contribute and does not support in any fashion the campaign of Senator Obama. Nine months ago Dan Cooper (personally) made an online donation to the campaign in an effort to help defeat Hillary Clinton and in protest of American plant closures and the shipping of jobs overseas. Three months ago he made yet another donation to the McCain campaign and the RNC totaling over twice that given to Obama campaign. There is no doubt that the article in USA Today has caused a considerable response. To this end we are encouraged and stand with our fellow NRA members and supporters of the Second Amendment and against those who oppose it."

    The end of this story is far from written, but were Cooper's actions were not inaccurately reported in order to fit inside the "More executives sold on Obama" headline, Mr. Cooper is only beginning to feel the ire of already angry gun owners. When your name is on the sign, there is precious little discrimination between your personal actions and those of your company. We'll keep you posted.
     
  18. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    Well, I want to see the open letter from him to USA today demanding a retraction then, for the alleged blatent lies attributed to Mr. Cooper by this rogue USA today reporter. Sure is easy to backpaddle, but I'm willing to keep an open mind....if he didn't contribute the larger amount of $3,300 more recently, then that should be easily verifiable whether he did or not, make a contribution AFTER the primary.

    If you pick that apart and look at it closely, it seems to be a dexterious dance and dodge:

    OK, the company doesn't support the Obama Campaign, but what about Mr. Cooper personally?

    This does NOT specifically say that in addition to this disclosed contribution during the primaries, that he did NOT ALSO give more later (personally). Why not?

    Twice that amount given originally to the Obama campaign, or twice the TOTAL amount given to the Obama campaign, from the first one admitted in the primaries, AND the (possible, alleged) second one which is not specifically denied by this statement, but which is claimed by the USA Today reporter?

    Yeah....
    Right, but according to Mr. Obama, he himself supports the 2nd amendment, too, allegedly, so since you ARE (evidently) an Obama supporter, then by this quoted statement you *could very well* mean to be saying: "we are encouraged and stand with our fellow NRA members and supporters of the Second Amendment (like Obama) and against those who oppose it."

    Again, WHY no specific endorsement of the McCain campaign? Why no specific unequivocal statement denying support of the Obama campaign for Dan Cooper himself personally, in addition to the company?

    Again, I'm willing to keep an open mind, and I certainly don't want to harm the company at all if it's not deserved, but that is far from an ironclad, non-weasal statement.
     
  19. HGUNHNTR

    HGUNHNTR Member

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    Thanks rbernie, once again you have set me straight.

    I guess we all owe you a debt of gratitude.

    Carry on peasants.
     
  20. contender

    contender Member

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    where is the truth indeed.........
    this is from the Federal Election Commission website and is free for all to use
    http://www.fec.gov/finance/disclosure/norindsea.shtml

    i just merely typed cooper dan and got a list of possibilities and low and behold from Montana this is what i found to the obama camp.....


    COOPER, DAN
    STEVENSVILLE, MT 59870
    COOPER ARMS/PRESIDENT / CEO

    OBAMA, BARACK
    VIA OBAMA FOR AMERICA
    01/17/2007 2100.00 27930594621
    02/06/2008 -900.00 28930926481
    02/06/2008 900.00 28930926482
    02/06/2008 1000.00 28930926481


    this is the only listed donations from cooper of cooper arms.

    THERE WERE NO OTHER DONATIONS FROM HIM LISTED.

    so where is the donations to the republicans that he has now publicly stated he made????????

    i have yet to find the "1st" donation to mcain.....more or less the stated "another" donation to mcain......
     
  21. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

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    I grew up with that type, and no this wasn't public ranges, but private conservation/trap clubs. I used to shoot in a trap league at the very range where members called the authorities for Mr. Olafson having the audacity of shooting his evil black rifle at their range. Some of the people I was around when growing up were as hard core gun nuts as anyone here, others really didn't care so long as they could show up on sunday in their mid-life-crisis-mobile and show off their new Perazzi shotgun.

    When I moved away from the area to work my first job out of college, I showed up at a conservation club to shoot bullseye pistol league. The talk afterward turned toward RKBA- and one of the comments I heard was that they wished some of the shotgunners would get on board and help protect the right to own black guns as well. That statement was kind of shocking to me at the time and was the first time I ever heard the word 'black guns' - this was in the year 1997 or so....

    I agree that it doesn't help us to divide ourselves, but don't kid yourself, there are plenty of gun owners out there that really don't care if you can own an AK clone or not and will vote against that right every time. I live in a state that probably has a higher per capita of hunters than any other, yet somehow we can't get concealed carry passed, we have an anti-gun extremist in his second term as governor.
     
  22. torpid

    torpid Member

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    I guess I must have missed the part where the United States Government attempted to suppress Jim Zumbo's freedom of speech.
     
  23. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    Point of fact: When, exactly, were the D party primaries over?
     
  24. Olympus

    Olympus Member

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    I think we all agree on that. Excellent point to keep bringing up though!

    And as for the comment made on the Cooper website, it looks like none of us are buying into this damage control spin they're putting on it. I think the fact that the statement was placed on the website is a good indication that the emails that I and apparently others members have sent to the company are starting to have their effect. I'm proud that other people have taken the time to email the company make their opinion heard. And I personally liked the post from the member who copied the email they sent to Cooper and posted it here. Short and sweet and very professional.

    I still haven't received any reply from the email I sent them.
     
  25. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

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    A man is known by the company that he keeps. If you vote for a gun banner you support gun bans. If you vote for a communist you support communism. If you vote for a certain presidential candidate you support both.
     
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