Double Taps still phony?

[Eric's Big Head]

To those who's not aware, Double Taps have been tested on several YouTube videos along with other brands such as Buffalo Bore, Swamp Fox, PMC, etc.

Of all those tested, Double Taps velocity were the lowest by a much larger margin than the rest whenit comes to the 10mm loads.

Some of the other brands chrono'ed velocity higher than that stated on their package.

Are Double Taps still "Inflating" their numbers?

 

[youngda9]

They are probably numbers out of 20" barrels. Buffalo Bore gives velocities out of several different barrel lengths in their handgun offerings.

 

[jmr40]

Double Tap claims 1300 FPS for 200 gr hardcast from a factory Glock 20. My chronograph says 1315 my Glock 20. Close enough for me.

Just because someone else gets different numbers does not mean much. Many things influence the velocity you get from ammo. Some ammo is effected by the temperature when tested. Often 1 fps slower for each degree colder. Ammo tested at 20 degrees could be as much as 70 fps slower than when tested at 90 degrees. Ammo tested in the same gun, but at different times of the day can give quite different readings because of the intensity and angle of sunlight on the chronograph.

Unless the ammo is all tested in the same gun, under the exact same conditions it means little.

Different guns shoot the same ammo faster. I have more data for rifles than handguns. Between my brother and I we own four 30-06 rifles with 22" barrels. With the same ammo I get the following velocities, 3025 fps, 3015, fps, 2980 fps, and 2960 fps. That is 65 fps difference between the fastest gun and slowest rifle.

I have some other, heavier bullets that chronograph at 2850 fps in my gun, but only 2725 fps in a friends rifle. Same loads, same barrel length, shot within 2 minutes of each other on the same day. 125 fps slower in his rifle than mine.

 

[Eric's Big Head]

They are probably numbers out of 20" barrels. Buffalo Bore gives velocities out of several different barrel lengths in their handgun offerings.

Let me add that in these videos, the shooter shot all different 10mm loads out of his Glock 20.

If Double Tap tested out of a 20" barrel, then the low numbers in test would make sence.



JMR40 : The tests were shot with a Glock 20. DT claims they shot out of the same pistol.

 

[brickeyee]

the shooter shot all different 10mm loads out of his Glock 20.

And it is NOT identical to Double Tap's Glock 20.

 

[jmr40]

And they were not shot at the same time, same temperature, over the same chronograph. I have no doubt that Double Tap gets the advertised velocty from their gun. If you get a different reading from your gun it means nothing.

All of the 30-06 loads I used as examples in my 1st post are my hand loads. If I were advertising them for sale I, just like anyone else, would advertise them at the velocity I got from my best gun. If your gun gets less velocity, it is not my fault.

 

[ku4hx]

Not a scientific study by any means, but five shots each from my BB box and my DT box earlier this year clocked very closely to published velocities for both.

I have them strictly for those occasions when either my G20 or Smith 1006 are in SD rotation. My own loads, 180 grain Remington Golden Saber and 180 grain Speer Gold Dot are 50 fps, on average, below the BB and DT loads for that weight bullet. I don't even worry about 50 fps difference.

Variances in velocities for the same load from one gun to another prove nothing other than the fact that differences exist. I've loaded thousands of rounds with the same bullet lot, same powder lot, same primer lot and same case lot. Even when weighing all charges to ensure accuracy of the charge, there are muzzle velocity variances in the same gun. It's just the nature of the beast. There are just too many variables you can't control: ambient temperature, barrel heat up rate, barrel cool down rate, atmospheric pressure, powder orientation in the case, individual primer brisance differences and so forth.

 

[Robert101]

And my car doesn't get the acutal MPG as shown on the sale sticker either. I do get your post and actually I agree that the test results from similar guns should get close to the manufacturer's claimed velocities. We (the gun caring public) are a better informed and expect more than the average "Joe". Glad to see someone is testing and sharing the results.

I don't agree that minor variations in case angle, case lot, etc. will produce major differences in velocity. Some variation I agree. We expect the results shown on the box darn-it.

With all that said I do believe Double Tap is a good company and I'm glad they provide us a good product.

 

[jmr40]

Another possibility is that newer Glock 20 barrels just don't shoot as fast as the older models used in Double Tap's testing. It could be the guns fault, rather than the ammo.

 

[NOLAEMT]

I've chronographed several of double taps 45 and 357 loads over my chronograph, and have gotten numbers consistent with their published velocities, in fact my 5" 686+ "pro series" gets higher than advertised velocities with all the loads I tested.

 

[intercooler]

DT is 100-125 FPS off in every 10mm round I have tried. Their .357 is 150 FPS off out of my GP100 4" (same gun they claim with). I can throw a Buffalo Bore, Underwood, even Federal and get the numbers. Got no reason to buy a DT anything anymore.


I will trade anyone for DT though just to run over the Chrony and see how bad it fails.

 

[Eric's Big Head]

Another possibility is that newer Glock 20 barrels just don't shoot as fast as the older models used in Double Tap's testing. It could be the guns fault, rather than the ammo.

Really? One Glock 20 will cause 150+ fps drop compared to another Glock 20 for only Double Taps when all other brands are close to advertised claims? Really?

I understand some of your defense here using variables such as atmosphere, temp, barrel difference and so on. I do not agree with it though because these are variables they are all subjected to, but Double Taps show a negative side effect to these variable while Buffalo Bore, PMC, Swamp Fox and quite a few others are very close to their manufacter's claims.

My post is not to ask wether Double Tap's claim are false or not. The test done by the public proves their claim are outrageously inflated compared to other brands. I'm curious if they are still "deceiving" the public or are they up to par with their claims because I have not seen new tests to prove otherwise.

 

[NOLAEMT]

It seems to me that you have already made up your mind, so why start a thread to ask a question you already feel you know the answer to?

In this thread the majority of respondents reported that double tap's numbers were consistent with their chrono'd results. That would seem to say to me that perhaps the people at double tap are publishing the actual velocities they are getting from their test guns.

 

[wild cat mccane]

FPS isn't the only part of the equation.

Buffalo Bore has switched from a Gold Dot bullet to a crappy generic. Generic hollow points tend not to expand well while Gold Dots are some of the best bullet technology right now.

If you think FPS is the only important part of a HOLLOW POINT...perhaps think less obtuse and think about the actual hollow point

 

[trex1310]

This is another one of those internet rumors like the S&W lock
failures, Glock kabooms, getting prosecuted because of your
trigger job, etc., ad nauseum.

 

[Loosedhorse]

Hey, I'm gullible, but I believe this:

As far as Double Tap's advertised boxflap velocities for its pistol ammo, McNett generally chronographs these loads from stock Glock pistols at high elevation in Utah. Factoring for all the variables like elevation, temperature, humidity, type of pistol used, etc., you'll find posts from DT users across the U.S. reporting both lower and higher velocities

I like DT ammo, and having dealt with Mike McNett personally on one particular issue, I cannot believe anyone who says he's dishonest. He sure was honest with me.

Hey, if you want a treat, try his "new" 10mm 125grs. Yowza! Chono those and get back to me!

 

[intercooler]

I would love to Chrony them. Send me 5 and I will send you 5 of your flavor back.

 

[intercooler]

Just ordered this today:

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/produ...ght-to-bear-180gr-fmj-ammo/cName/10mm-fmj-lrn

Possibly another real 10mm ammo supplier in the making. I'm going to do a video Chrony testing it. If anyone wants to trade some DoubleTap for some Underwood I would love to have it for this video. PM me if you have any.

 

[JERRY]

if the gun or bbl are the problem, then why does the BB and other rounds get their published velocities but DT doesnt?

shouldnt they all fall 100+ fps short since the same gun is used for all of them?

or is DT the only ammo to recognize the slow bbl and the other ammo doesnt care so it does what it should? LOL

 

[wild cat mccane]

Care to address my bullet type used being more important than a meager loss of 100 fps comment?

 

[intercooler]

Address what part? To date DoubleTap is the only one I know that switched bullets on the fly without notice pissing people off.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-1172545.html

You can search.

Is XTP a good one? Gold Dot? Or are we talking design?

 

[R.W.Dale]

FPS isn't the only part of the equation.

Buffalo Bore has switched from a Gold Dot bullet to a crappy generic. Generic hollow points tend not to expand well while Gold Dots are some of the best bullet technology right now.

If you think FPS is the only important part of a HOLLOW POINT...perhaps think less obtuse and think about the actual hollow point

This is the ONLY post in this thread that really needs to be read.

For hunting fps matters.

For SD ill take a 40 level load with a tested and proven (at the velocity) bullet every time over a couple hundred fps with the "I think this'll work" jhp of the month.

40,45,9mm,357 stretches out bad guys with such reliability what exactly is 200 more fps supposed to do?

posted via mobile device.

 

[intercooler]

Then buy a .40 and be happy

 

[wild cat mccane]

Um actually Buffalo Bore was the first to do it (still does). Go to their website. Picture says may not be what you receive. But all the pictures have a Gold Dot bullet. The expansion data stays the same on their website though. That is odd don't you think? Two different bullets expand the same on average? Hum...

Nice try ace, but Buffalo Bore was the first liars of the bullet companies to switch when Gold Dots started to dry up. Go to KTOG under the P3AT .380 section. Happened 3 years ago and still is happening.

 

[JERRY]

if a manufacturer lables their 180gr. round @ 1300 fps from a stock G20, then folks are right to expect that and complain when there is a consistant falling short of that.

i know if i want a 180gr. @1300 fps from my G20 stock bbl, i go to Underwood Ammo.