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draganov accuracy?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by bjs1187, Aug 25, 2011.

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  1. bjs1187

    bjs1187 Member

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    I don't really know anything at all, except the caliber of these rifles. I'm not even sure that's how you spell it. Can someone give me a general rundown on their reliability function etc. etc. and most importantly their accuracy, and what is generally accepted as their maximum range.

    thanks,
    Ben
     
  2. sarduy

    sarduy Member

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    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
  3. Vaarok

    Vaarok Member

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    Minute of torso at 300. Meant to shoot machinegun nests during an assault, not assassinate people a half mile away. Generally a 2-3MOA rifle.
     
  4. max popenker

    max popenker Member

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    with standard issue ball ammo - sorta like that
    when properly maintained and fed with 7N1 or 7N14 sniper ammo - some specimen can reliably achieve 1 MOA at 100 meters

    NB: this refers only to the genuine Russian-made Dragunov SVD rifles, which, from what I know, are quite rare in USA
     
  5. Quiet

    Quiet Member

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    In the USA, the closest thing to a real "Dragunov SVD" are the Izhmash Dragunov Tiger carbines (7.62x54mmR) and the Norinco NDM-86 rifles (7.62x51mm, 7.62x54mmR).

    People have gotten better accuracy results from the Izhmash Saiga-308 (7.62x51mm) and the Molot Vepr (7.62x51mm, 7.62x54mmR), than the Cugir PSL-54/ROMAK-3/SSG-97/FPK (7.62x54mmR).
     
  6. blindhari

    blindhari Member

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    Had to famiiarise with one of these back in the 1960's. Out of 6 I found one that would consistently group under 6" at 3-400 meters, meteres not yds. This was using ebloc ammo packed out for this rifle. Not quite sniper ammo for here and now, (Barret .50), but not bad for 45 years ago.

    blindhari
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
  7. henschman

    henschman Member

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    They are pretty darn reliable. They use a short stroke gas piston system. They take a 10 round mag and have a side-mount scope with a quick detach lever, the same mount that was later put on a lot of AKs. They tend to shoot under 2 MOA with decent factory ammo. I'd say it is in the same accuracy league as the M-14.

    As for maximum effective range, the 7.62x54 out of a 24" barrel goes transonic at around 900m or so, give or take. At that distance, a man-sized target is just over 2 MOA wide. So the Dragunov should be effective on man-sized targets right out to the transonic limits of its cartridge if the shooter is capable of shooting it to its mechanical accuracy limit. Of course with that cartridge, if you range the target or read the wind just a hair off at that distance, you will miss; so I'd say the practical max effective range at which a decent shooter could consistently hit man-sized targets would be around 7-800m.

    FYI, the Russian idea of a "sniper" is more like what our military terms a "designated marksman" -- i.e. the best marksman in a squad is issued a special rifle in a more powerful cartridge and with better optics and gets a little bit of training with it, to extend the squad's effective rifle fire range beyond carbine distance. The Dragunov was designed for this role. It is designed simply to get hits on man-sized targets at a longer range than the infantry carbine. It was not designed as a precision sniper rifle.
     
  8. redbullitt

    redbullitt Member

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    I saw a guy hip firing one as fast as he could at the range : ( lol 30 foot 5 shot group at 25 yards.

    Best part was, he did it a couple magazine worth...
     
  9. mshootnit

    mshootnit Member

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    I believe it was Fortier who wrote that he had no trouble making multiple hits on reduced sized LaRue silhouettes at 600 yds with a dragunov.
     
  10. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Neat rifles. I wouldn't mind having one, but not at the prices they command. For a whole lot less, you can get into an AR-10 and shoot circles around the Drag.

    The PSL is a cheaper way to get into a DMR-type com bloc rifle. Expect 2-3 MOA. I've had two, but sold them both. My only x54 auto now is an SVT-40.
     
  11. sansone

    sansone Member

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    nailed it
     
  12. henschman

    henschman Member

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    A torso at 300 is almost 8 MOA wide. I don't care what kind of crappy rusted surplus ammo you're shooting -- any Dragunov will do a lot better than that. Hell you don't even hardly need to make a windage correction at 300 with the x54 to hit that target, even with a full-value 20 mph.
     
  13. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    I don't know too many people with a 24" wide torso.

    I'm 5'10, 180 medium/large build, my ribcage is 13" wide.
     
  14. Vaarok

    Vaarok Member

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    Okay, just to throw in some additional detail, since I guess it has bearing. A couple years ago I had a NDM-86.

    For the money, they're not a good rifle. They're RARE, they're COLLECTABLE, they're DESIRABLE, but overall? Meh. Just like a milled AK or anything else, they're good, but they're not magic.

    I found the stock uncomfortable, the optics mediocre, the ergonomics and trigger meh-overall, the fit and finish were decent but military grade, and overall I vastly preferred my PSL.

    That said, I resold it and made two thousand dollars profit.

    ndm86.jpg
     
  15. henschman

    henschman Member

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    Woops, I meant to say almost 7 MOA wide. A human is usually around 20" wide shoulder to shoulder. I suck at math, so sue me. ;)

    My point still stands about the Dragunov being capable of well beyond that level of accuracy.

    Hell, my Romanian AK is "minute of torso" at 400 yards.
     
  16. Dr.Rob

    Dr.Rob Moderator Staff Member

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    Think the biggest drawback to the Dragunov's accuracy is that bizzaro scope reticle system.

    With a standard crosshair or mil-dot style scope I'd wager you'd see accuracy improve greatly.
     
  17. mshootnit

    mshootnit Member

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    you wouldn't want to stand up out front of one anywhere inside of 660 yards.
     
  18. Jeremy2171

    Jeremy2171 Member

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    More like 1000....

    I was putting the 800m popup down every shot with mine...I'd feel safe taking a shot at you 1000m out....
     
  19. Vaarok

    Vaarok Member

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    Actually, the Soviet crosshair is faster and better for what it does than a mildot crosshair. The ski slope allows you to quickly rangefind a target, and then the stacked chevrons are bullet drop by a hundred meters past the range the scope is dialed for.
     
  20. J.A.D.

    J.A.D. Member

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    I zeroed my PSL today at the range. at 300 yards I was putting 2" groups with minimal fuss. Although it was tough at first to shoot consistently, I got the feel for it fairly quickly, and it was uncannily accurate once I got comfortable with it. I love it, and will never part with it.
     
  21. alloy

    alloy Member

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    Few rifles shoot cheap milsurp extremely well, but at 7 1/2 lbs with optic a Drag is no slouch. They aren't built for paper punching...made for something else, and the 5/8" scope offset can either be dealt with by leaving it parallel throughout it's range and holding off 5/8, or clicking the windage once as in this 8 shot group at 100 yards.
    1.04MOA rejection standard with 7n1 ammo, and the 2 biggest problems I am aware of are the misconceptions of those who haven't ever shot one, or the total nonexistance of spare parts.
    They might be pricey but so is a US Optic, Premier, or Leupold on a SR25 at 10 1/2 lbs.
    Doing the role it's designed for I think it's probobly adequate.

    PICT1241.jpg
     
  22. Grunt

    Grunt Member

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    My experience with the SVD goes back a couple decades. First one I handled was one we captured during the first Gulf War while I was in the Marines. Never did any formal shooting with it other than plinking at rocks until the Lt. had a fit about gunshots going off...without him being offered to crank off a few rounds as well. LOL The unfortunate end for that rifle was to have the bolt stripped of it, laid on a sandbag and ran over with the Humvee until it was completely destroyed and the remaining parts thrown out the turret ever few miles on our road back to Saudi. :(
    After getting out in 1992, I ran across a Chinese NDM-86 at a gun show a few years later. It was in .308 but for $1600, I went ahead and got it and still have it yet. I ran Federal GMM ammo through it and was very surprised by the accuracy. While I was expecting accuracy on par with a scoped AK, I was pleasantly surprised by the 1 MOA groups it could easily do and .75 or so with a little more effort on my part! :what: I wanted to start a reloading program for it to see what kind of accuracy handloads could wring out of it but that program was put on hold when I married into the Care Force and sent down here to the land or rust and rot (aka NW Florida). Down here in swamp country, a long range shot is maybe 200m and with such dismal shooting ranges, I never got around to perusing the handload angle to see what else she could do.
    However, one good thing about being down here is that being a CATM instructor with a pretty good knowledge of foreign weapons, I was asked by my old NCOIC that now works for the Special Operations School to help out as a member of the shooting team. Among all the foreign weapons we deal with, an original Soviet SVD was one of them. Now my current NCOIC here used to be in that same position at the School and swore that the SVD couldn't hit anything. Being up for a challenge I took her out and ran it through it's paces trying to zero it in. Now I don't know what kind of ammunition we have but most likely it's some sort of surplus ball ammo that we also fire through the PKM so precision isn't it's likely strong point. I had to move the target back in to 25m in order to get it on paper but once I got it zeroed, I took it out to 200 meters and managed to get groups just a hair over 2 inches so that is still pretty good performance for an old battlefield pickup rifle! Sadly, we had to send it back to Fort Bragg for inspection and since it got back, I haven't had a chance to see how badly they dicked up my dope setting on that rifle to see if it still shoots as well as it did earlier. I still want to get back to that before I leave next month though.
    Leaving that range is going to be a job I miss (USAFR instructor that has been doing this job too long so they aren't renewing orders for seasoned instructors and are going to rely on kids fresh out of CATM school I guess) but on the bright side, I'm heading back home to ND where I can get back to my original plan of restarting the handloading program for my old NDM-86 and see how that all works out.
    All-in-all though, I wouldn't dismiss the SVD as being far more accurate than one would suspect. It's lightweight, the stock is pretty short (if you got arms like some sort of Carney or T-rex, you'd feel right at home I suppose) and the optics aren't nearly as good as more modern scopes but for shooting as the Soviets originally intended, I think it's an excellent rifle.
     
  23. mshootnit

    mshootnit Member

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    was re-reading the March April rifle shooter from (2010?) sorry can't remember... Fortier evaluating a US converted SVDS. 1.2 in groups at 100 shooting 152 gr. Russian sniper loads. Was able to hit targets well at 600 meters and stated that the rifle would be dangerous to 800 plus in the hands of a capable shooter who knew how to use the scope and manage the trigger/ rifle
     
  24. Crex39

    Crex39 Member

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    The downside I noticed with my PSL is after it heats up the thin barrel tends to wobble,decreasing accuracy but I would still feel comfortable hitting a pie plate out to 400 yds.
     
  25. nathan

    nathan Member

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    MOA or Minute of torso, i wouldnt want one aiming at me at 300 or 400 yds away.
     
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