The Perfect Sniper Rifle

[Kendal Black]

There seem to be several opinions on caliber, from 6mm on up.

A related question is the length of the action. Ruger's answer in the RPR has been to offer something suitable for the .308 Win family of cartridges and cartridges of similar size and leave it at that. https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/7/17/ruger-precision-rifle/

If you want to offer chamberings for longer cartridges, that leaves you with a question of whether shorter cartridges will be accommodated by a longer action fitted with a barrel for shorter cartridges, such as the Army did with the M24. It is a 'long action' Remington 700 but the rifle was fielded, originally, wearing a .308 barrel. Some customers might take issue with that approach.

It's your design, of course, so it is up to you to pin down the action length and maximum COAL you are after.

 

[horsey300]

That sounds like a winner. Don't forget rails, lots of rails, quad rails are even better than a single rail, need lots of places to snap on the rail covers to keep them from catching on any and everything.

Definitely!!! Gotta be able to attach the Rapid Accelerating Plasma Energy Round under the barrel like a secondary grenade launcher for antimatter purposes, all of this MUST be included with the patented ChameleoSys covering too! We could also neck a .30-06 into a 7-06 for a big brother lineup for the Serious shooter. Msrp $50 more than the guided firing smart rifle.

 

[Baba Louie]

First thought was an old Swede M41B made new.

6.5... call it Creedmoor or a 260 Rem (I like the lower pressure 6.5x55... longer action tho)
Bolt, but straight pull as in Blaser
Detach magazine
20-22" bbl, muzzle threaded for ?
Folding stock, adjustable, sling & bipod hookups
8lbs without glass/bipod
10x fixed

or just buy a Ruger Precision in 6.5Cr

 

[Gordon]

Maybe use polymer technology to re engineer the Walther WA 2000 in .300 win Mag as the 2nd gen WA2000 was . With a few improvements and a polymer frame the weight could come down to around F class limits , and with a Schmidt and Bender with a clip on FLIR you would have pretty near the ultimate "sniper" rifle IMHO. Semi auto follow up shots are very helpful, you can concentrate on aiming at the subject and finishing the task much quicker.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/q364aEJsJHQ/maxresdefault.jpg

 

[Eleanor416Rigby]

Some folks that started out with traditional hunting rifles absolutely hate D-box magazines.

 

[macgrumpy]

1. There is no such thing as a perfect "sniper rifle", it all depends on what the shooter thinks he needs for his mission and his preferences.
2. The only people that can have any valid opinion are police or military snipers that have actually conducted real field operations, everybody else is just a wannabe with an opinion that isn't based on real experience.
3. As mentioned, there is no such thing as a "sniper rifle" since no one rifle works for all snipers, as said before, there are only sniper's rifles.

All that being said, I retired from the Marine Corps and I can tell you that I've met and worked with snipers and almost all of them were required to use the weapon that they were issued without any input on their part (some special operators are allowed to choose their own weapon in unique situations) so even a qualified sniper doesn't get choose their perfect rifle, they can only optimize their skill-set with the weapon that they have and that's what I'd recommend that you do. Pick a weapon design that you think will provide you with all the options that might help you do your job and then practice with it.

Since I have no idea if you are just a kid behind a keyboard in his parent's basement or a bad guy in the making or a wannabe so I'm not about to provide any information that might actually help build a better rifle for a shooter.

 

[MCMXI]

The only people that can have any valid opinion are police or military snipers that have actually conducted real field operations, everybody else is just a wannabe with an opinion that isn't based on real experience.

I'm sorry but that's complete rubbish! The rifle is just one part of a sniper's skill set and many civilian/military shooters are significantly better shooters than many who pass out of various military sniper schools. It's all of the other things that snipers do that separate them from all of us "wannabes". If the question was about stalking techniques, building hides, gathering intel, counter sniping, how to stay calm under fire, etc. you'd have a point. As it stands, you don't. If you don't agree you might want to consider that the AI AW and AI AWM were designed by top ranked target shooters, not military snipers.

"Accuracy International is a specialist British firearms manufacturer based in Portsmouth, Hampshire, England, and best known for producing the Accuracy International Arctic Warfare series of precision sniper rifles. The company was established in 1978 by British Olympic shooting gold medallist Malcolm Cooper, MBE (1947–2001), Sarah Cooper, Martin Kay, and the designers of the weapons, Dave Walls and Dave Caig. All were highly skilled international or national target shooters."

 

[ZGunner]

Best "sniper" in history used a bolt action with iron sights. The end user decides the use. But for a good rifle, I see a rock solid action (take your pick) with a semi-heavy barrel (take your pick) and the best glass you can afford (take your pick).

Choose your application and build to suit.

 

[zb338]

I read two books about snipers in WW2. One was by a Russian and the other by a German. It was amazing how
close they were to each other. The snipers really knew stealth and camo. Their rifles were almost always basic
service rifles. Both sides used German scopes that were of fairly low power.

Zeke

 

[macgrumpy]

I'm sorry but that's complete rubbish! The rifle is just one part of a sniper's skill set and many civilian/military shooters are significantly better shooters than many who pass out of various military sniper schools. It's all of the other things that snipers do that separate them from all of us "wannabes". If the question was about stalking techniques, building hides, gathering intel, counter sniping, how to stay calm under fire, etc. you'd have a point. As it stands, you don't. If you don't agree you might want to consider that the AI AW and AI AWM were designed by top ranked target shooters, not military snipers.

"Accuracy International is a specialist British firearms manufacturer based in Portsmouth, Hampshire, England, and best known for producing the Accuracy International Arctic Warfare series of precision sniper rifles. The company was established in 1978 by British Olympic shooting gold medallist Malcolm Cooper, MBE (1947–2001), Sarah Cooper, Martin Kay, and the designers of the weapons, Dave Walls and Dave Caig. All were highly skilled international or national target shooters."

What the heck is your problem? I just got lectured about how civilized this forum is and not a minute later I'm being treated with a lack of respect and rudeness.

What's rubbish? It sounds to me like you took offense to me using the word "wannabe". My post was actually an attempt to imply exactly what it is you said - it takes more than just a rifle to make a sniper. I never said anything different but unless you've actually crawled through the mud and scrub and laid in a hide for a day or two how would you know what kinds of equipment works for a sniper's rifle. There are lots of gadgets out there but anything you add to the rifle is going to make things more complex and the load heavier. You have to balance the benefit against the effort needed to bring it to the field, the amount of energy and space required to carry these parts around is an important consideration and only people that have been there and done that can really know what works well and what doesn't. Anybody can have an opinion about what equipment they'd like to have to make their dream rifle but to say that those opinions would accurately reflect what a real sniper would like to use is unrealistic. Every mission requires unique solutions and nobody but an experienced sniper could tell us what equipment worked the best in the field.

I don't see where that's rubbish.

 

[jmar]

Thanks for your replies everyone, what is it you all like about Accuracy International rifles?

 

[jmorris]

I think you guys are getting too serious over a topic that might as well be "what in your opinion would constitute perfect footwear?"

But I do agree you don't have to be LEO or mIlitary to "be" a sniper.

Here is proof.

 

[Coal Dragger]

The ultimate in an out of the box long range precision rifle ruggedized for military use that is still practically single man portable as a "sniper" rifle is the Accuracy International AXMC. We can dance around this issue with statements of what do you want to use it for, etc but there it is. The AI action is the standard for durability and reliability while maintaining the necessary accuracy in harsh conditions. The stock and magazines are so good there is a strong market for stocks and magazine conversions to work with inferior actions to the AI. AI barrels are excellent cut rifled match grade quality, and with some simple tools the end user can re-barrel their rifle if they shoot out the barrel or want to change calibers on the same bolt face.

Downsides are cost (breath taking), and weight (they're heavy).

Otherwise an AI AXMC in .300 Norma Magnum please with the 27" bbl and good glass in a good mount.

 

[Kendal Black]

Thanks for your replies everyone, what is it you all like about Accuracy International rifles?

They shoot very straight.

You've cut out quite a task for yourself, seeing what AI is doing in the high price range and what Ruger, Remington and others are doing within tighter cost constraints. But best of luck! Care to fill us in on your project?

 

[z7]

I think the American Rifle Company already has this in the works

http://www.americanrifle.com/M2-bolt-action-rifle-balance-of-power.html


Ambidextrous bolt action, folding stock, AI pattern mags, fully adjustable chassis, switch barrel from 308 family to 338 lapua mag and everything in between. Controlled round feed, Springfield 03 ejector, mauser extractor, and the rail can be swapped so you are not stuck with a 20moa, you can choose. it is lighter then AI as well.

 

[hdwhit]

...what in your opinion would constitute a perfect sniper rifle?

Even with the clarification that lethality at 1,000 yards is required, the parameters are still too open-ended for a meaningful answer. For example, when you say it needs to be lethal at 1,000 yards does that mean it reaches 1,000 yards with the threshold for lethality of around 60 foot-pounds of energy or are you wanting more energy for a more certain outcome? What's the target? What's the range? Is the target under cover? Is the target armored? Without detailed specifications there's no way to answer, all you would get from me and anyone else who answered is what we would like to have in a sniper rifle, not what is needed for what you want to develop.

 

[jmar]

They shoot very straight.

You've cut out quite a task for yourself, seeing what AI is doing in the high price range and what Ruger, Remington and others are doing within tighter cost constraints. But best of luck! Care to fill us in on your project?

Right now the gun i'd like to make is just in the development phase, which is why i made this thread to get ideas. I think there's a misconception happening i am not a company or anything i just am building it as a hobby. And if others like it only then will i market it. So to clarify i would want to sell guns but only if the markets there, kind of a prototype i guess.

 

[jmar]

Even with the clarification that lethality at 1,000 yards is required, the parameters are still too open-ended for a meaningful answer. For example, when you say it needs to be lethal at 1,000 yards does that mean it reaches 1,000 yards with the threshold for lethality of around 60 foot-pounds of energy or are you wanting more energy for a more certain outcome? What's the target? What's the range? Is the target under cover? Is the target armored? Without detailed specifications there's no way to answer, all you would get from me and anyone else who answered is what we would like to have in a sniper rifle, not what is needed for what you want to develop.

I'm not looking for very specific answers. I'm simply just asking about personal preferences based on experience. Open-ended response are welcome, that way i can account for everything. I said that thing about 1000 yards because the gun i have have in mind is a relatively high caliber no .22s or anything. Lets just put it this way, i'm looking for advice pertaining to calibers equivalent to .308 and above only.

 

[ATLDave]

calibers equivalent to .308 and above only.

Equivalent in what way? Flatness of trajectory? Effective range? Terminal ballistics/killing power? Inherent accuracy?

 

[Averageman]

I kicked around the idea of refining (not "building) a stock rifle out of the box that would be accurate and fill a lot of possible roles.
Making the rifle easier to shoot in many ways makes it more likely to be used in training, making it easier on barrel life makes it more economical for a longer period of time. Having an ability to load your own ammunition allows the shooter to practice more often. Keeping the initial price within my budget allowed me to have an accurate rifle, in on time and get me started with this experiment a bit quicker.
I went with a Savage Model 10T in 6.5 Creedmoor as the base barrel, receiver and bolt. I went with a Choate after market stock, a Harris Bipod and a Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50 scope in Warne rings. Doing the math quickly, I'm $1200+ in to this gun at this point.
I'm anxious to take it to the range as I just got it all put together last Tuesday, but as things go we're looking at four days of rain and wind ahead.
It likely wont get it's cherry popped until mid December.

 

[mavracer]

In today's world I see no reason to build a bolt gun in 308 for "sniping" what with the AR pattern REPR and SASS style guns that'll perform all the tasks a bolt gun will and some. For me a bolt "sniper" gun would have to be at least a 300 Win Mag or larger.

And you can't have one perfect "sniper" rifle because a McMillen Tac50 bolt isn't perfect for multiple targets at 400 yards any more than a M110 SASS is perfect for a mile long shot.

 

[strambo]

You really need to nail down the exact role/typical mission profile of said rifle as hdwhit and others are saying. Right now, the Army has like 4 different "Sniper" rifles in the field not counting DM rifles. The 7.62 M24, the 7.62 semi-auto M110, the .300 WM converted M24 and the M107 .50 BMG Barrett. Even in the National Guard I have seen our snipers with all those options (at the same time) minus the .300 WM.

If the "perfect" rifle has to live in some sort of military/agency logistical reality, boutique cartridges like the 6.5 Creedmore etc. are likely out as well. Why the artificial bolt action requirement? Because that is what you can/want to make? Or because it somehow actually best fits the role?

With the massive increased trend of military urban operations, the classic long-range sniper shot is less important. Even so, what is the modern historical (say Vietnam to now) average distance?

Something like an LMT MWS LM8 or KAC SR25 E2 with the 16" barrel and mid-range optic would cover 90% of a military sniper's needs. Compact in and out of structures, semi-auto firepower, capable out to 800m, combat reliable and flexible.

 

[Varminterror]

The rifle doesn't make the sniper - that's commonly lost by today's firearms industry.

If you're starting with a blank slate - build something light & portable, accurate, durable, and versatile for optics. Chamber it in a standard military adopted cartridge if you think anybody would ever buy it. It doesn't have to be 0.1MOA capable. It's really that easy.

 

[ATLDave]

OP, you may enjoy reading this long-running, data-driven blog about precision rifle competitive shooting. http://precisionrifleblog.com/ While this is about shooting targets (mostly in the 100-1,000 yard range), not people, that's almost certainly what you'll actually be shooting, too. I don't shoot precision rifle, but I found it full of interesting reading when I stumbled onto it a month or so ago.

 

[Kendal Black]

Lets just put it this way, i'm looking for advice pertaining to calibers equivalent to .308 and above only.

In the category of "and above," the .300 Win Mag and the .338 Lapua Mag are sniping rounds of some note, longish cartridges calling for a fairly long receiver, so there is one design parameter pinned down. That is, it is pinned down unless you want to look instead at some of the short fat magnum cartridges. That might be an interesting approach to take, and something to set the new rifle a bit apart from the rest. I see no reason why something from the WSM or WSSM cartridge lines would not be good in the role. The short cartridge would help you to "add lightness," according to the old design maxim, "simplicate and add more lightness."