Dragoon vs. 1858 New Model Army

[Panzerschwein]

Well... the title says it all.

I can't decide weather my first black powder revolver should be a Colt Dragoon 3rd model, or a Remington 1858 New Model Army. I am specifically looking at the iterations produced by Uberti, and imported by Cimarron. I have heard some claims that Cimarron only sells Uberti's best or has Uberti make the Cimarron guns to higher standards. I in NO WAY know for certain if this is true, but I have read this many times on the internet (for what THAT'S worth!) and I think I will be going with a Cimarron of whatever of these two guns I decide on. I will use the gun mostly for range use, with secondary home defense usage as well.

I've heard great things about the Remington, supposedly it is pretty reliable and easy for a modern revolver shooter (me) to transition over to. I also think it looks pretty neat. Also it takes less of a powder charge than the Dragoon, which could save me money but might not be as powerful as the Dragoon in the defensive role. But I have heard the Remy doesn't jam up with cap fragments as much as the Dragoon can. However-

I just love the Dragoon. It's so big and powerful looking. It has an even higher "cool" factor for me over the Remington, but, I've heard the gun isn't the best for a first time black powder shooter, for various reasons. Despite that I really am drawn do it. It's such a beast. For defensive use, it packs a larger powder charge for more power as well.

So, should I go for the Remington New Model Army, or the Dragoon? Thank you for your time.

 

[rodwha]

The Remington would suite all of those needs much better.

It's a little lighter for easier handling, especially if it's a 5.5" barreled version, and the powder capacity is more than enough. I load my ROA, which has a similar capacity to either 30 or 35 grns of 3F Triple 7 with a ball, which ought to perform about as well as a 44 Spl/standard 45 ACP load (325-375 ft/lbs). It's less likely to jam with cap fragments, and has a very quick and easy cylinder swap if needed/wanted. The sight picture would also be a little better.

A Dragoon has more wow factor, but it's just not as good for your secondary role.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I have heard some claims that Cimarron only sells Uberti's best or has Uberti make the Cimarron guns to higher standards. I in NO WAY know for certain if this is true, but I have read this many times on the internet (for what THAT'S worth!)

Howdy

That is an often repeated myth. It is not true. Everything at Uberti comes off the same assembly line, different importers may have their own rollmarks put onto their guns, but inside they are all the same.

Have you ever hefted a Dragoon? They are really heavy. Much heavier than the 1851 Colt Navy or the 1860 Colt Army. Pretty awkward to aim accurately just because they are so heavy. You would probably be much better served with the Remington. Just bear in mind that because of the lack of a bushing on the front of the cylinder, the Remington design binds up fairly quickly so the cylinder and cylinder pin will benefit from frequent wiping down with a damp cloth.

 

[toolslinger]

Well as much as I like my Dragoon and Walker get the Remington. One alternative you left out is a Ruger Old Army IF you can find one at a good price. Have you considered this or do they just not float your boat?

 

[Willie Sutton]

Remmie: It's a much more forgiving and friendly revolver for the new shooter.

Uberti is the nicest choice, in my experience.

ALL of the Uberti revolvers are the same no matter who imports them. The ones imported by Cimmaron have one more line of lettering on the top of the barrel as compared to the ones imported by Taylors. Either are the same in every other way.


Willie

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[BullSlinger]

I agree with what Driftwood and Willie said. An Uberti is the same no matter who you buy from IMO. I think folks like to think that buying from Taylors, Cimarron and others they are getting better guns when actually they are justifying spending more money for the same gun.
A Dragoon is neat but not easy to handle so a Remey is a better choice in my opinion. What ever you decide on welcome to cap and ball and have fun.

 

[rodwha]

Were you decide cool factor meant more I'd opt for a Walker over the Dragoon. That's a small rifle charge there! Not to mention it's the pistol that put Colt back into business, and designed to put some serious hurtin' on horses!

Of course a 9" barrel with a long cylinder and an unloaded (???) weight of 4.5 lbs is quite a bit for your secondary purpose!

 

[CraigC]

I agree that Uberti's are all the same but I think the price depends way more on who's selling them rather than who's importing them. That said, Cimarron's customer service is excellent. If I didn't live 2hrs from Dixie Gun Works, Cimarron is all I'd buy.

The Dragoon is a big sixgun but not unmanageable. I've used mine in the field over the last year and once you're accustomed to it, it's not too bad. If you plan on actually using one like I do, it will take some time to get used to its massive size and 4.2lb weight. To me, the 3rd Dragoon is the most practical and useful of the big horse pistols.

 

[EljaySL]

Here's another vote for the Remington. It's pretty newbie friendly, shoots well, and they learned a lot in the ten years between the dragoons and the 1858.

Also that frees you up - if you want a giant impractical revolver you can go all the way and get a Walker.

 

[Jaymo]

I bought my Uberti 1862 Police (look at CraigCs website for a pic of it) from Buffalo Arms.
Mine is a Cimarron Uberti. It cost me a good bit less than the one at my LGS.
It also has a helluva lot smoother action than the one at my LGS.

I'd get the Remington, if starting out. That's the route I took, and I don't regret it a bit.
I have two of them, 5.5" and 8". Both are Piettas I bought from Cabelas.
Both have been great. Lots of fun.

If you want a big, heavy bruiser, look into the Pedersoli Howdah Pistol 20 gauge.
It looks like a sawn-off double barrel shotgun.
350 grain round balls hit hard and penetrate well.
It's also a LOT of fun.
Plus, you can load it with buckshot or buck-n-ball.
Or, load it with birdshot, for snake duty.

 

[ClemBert]

If it's gonna be one or the other I'd recommend going with the 1858. The 1858 is pretty much the consensus standard answer you generally get for newbies in these parts. The balance is better and it is less complicated. I think your newbie experience with BP will be much better. I have a Colt Walker Dragoon. It's a bit larger than the 3rd model but I imagine the 3rd model to be a beast like the Walker so it will be a bit more to manage. Yes, the Dragoon may have the "wow" or "cool" factor going for it but the 1858 can be a pretty cool-wowie BP firearm. Do what I did...getcha a charcoal blue finished 1858 from Cimarron.

p.s. I like the finish and fit of the Uberti(s) better than the Pietta(s) I own.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

As the first I'd also recommend the 1858 over the Dragoon, but by all means grab up a Dragoon once your hooked.

Of Course you do realize you'll have a pile of at least a dozen different Cap & Ball revolvers before you even know what happened right?

 

[rodwha]

"Of Course you do realize you'll have a pile of at least a dozen different Cap & Ball revolvers before you even know what happened right?"

This is what I'm going for! SWMBO told me I can't get a gun every Christmas. But It's all I need! Last time, when I got my rifle, I was asked about needing to upgrade my backpacking/camping stuff, to which I replied, "I have that! But I need this!"

Eventually I'll get a Howdah and a Le Matt!

 

[kBob]

Another sing out for the NMA as a first gun and all around useful revolver.

If I just had to have a Colt .44 recommendation for a newbee it would not be a dragoon but an 1860 just because it is less unwieldy than a Dragoon.

What ever you decide do look at what folks have done around here like for instance the improved cap windows on the NMA via dremmel tool use and what parts to have extras of and pre fit them.

-kBob

 

[Panzerschwein]

Thank you everybody for the advice, much appreciated.

Drifwood Johnson: I have not handled a Dragoon but I recently handled a Colt Walker replica at a recent gun show. To be honest I actually expected it to be heavier than it was, I found it to be fairly comfortable. I do however shoot a 45 oz. Ruger GP-100 frequently so I may be more used to a heavy pistol. Without a doubt though I'm sure that Walker would get really heavy after some shooting

Toolslinger: I have seen the Ruger Old Army and it looks to be a great gun, but I am more interested in the historical replicas personally.

Jaymo: A Howdah pistol is something that's always been cool to me I might have to look in to that.

ClemBert: That is a BEAUTIFUL pair of revolver! I love that finish on the Remington, tell me, does the charcoal bluing hold up well? Thanks!

Once again thanks guys this really is helping me out. I am leaning more towards the New Model Army as I sort of originally was as my first gun. I have no doubt I will enjoy black powder shooting, as I've fired a friends BP revolver (I think it was a '51 Navy replica, not sure) a couple years ago and it was a blast. I'm also interested in Civil War and Old West history, so owning this type of firearm has always been on my list of priorities in shooting but I've always been intimidated on which route to go with.

 

[ofitg]

As the first I'd also recommend the 1858 over the Dragoon, but by all means grab up a Dragoon once your hooked.

Of Course you do realize you'll have a pile of at least a dozen different Cap & Ball revolvers before you even know what happened right?

That just about sums it up.....

 

[ivankerley]

im in the minority here but id go with the colt, i never warmed to the remmie, plus from a pure aesthetics standpoint that dragoon has it over the remmie in spades. Not to say the remmie wouldnt serve you just fine but i like the open tops, just something 'bout them. I can attest to Cimarron having excellent Customer service too!
Dunno my vote is for the dragoon, youre drawn to it, youll figure it out if ya want it bad enough
Best of luck
Gene

 

[EljaySL]

Definitely put the Howdah on your short list next time there's a good sale. Tons of fun.

 

[avatarshots]

I just got MY first BP gun and I chose the Dragoon 1st model. Where I live, I was able to go into the gun shop and handle both Colt and Remy replicas. The Dragoon had a better feel in my hands, and I find the extra weight more satisfying, but I'm a professional photographer so I'm used to carrying heavy cameras and lenses.

 

[jaxenro]

Definitely the Dragoon but if you can try to handle both. I just don't like how the Remington feels in the hand and the grip is cramped to me and I shoot Colt style pockets all the time

If you want a 44 though I would consider the 1860 Army with the lighter weight and longer grip still plenty powerful

 

[Willie Sutton]

^^^

Then suggest one that has an arbor that is the correct length and does not require work done to it after purchase to have the cylinder gap be able to be set correctly by seating the wedge with a solid tap, the way that Colt designed it to work.

Hint: There aren't any sold that are correctly set from the factory. And without that being done, none of them will shoot worth a darn if they are used the way they were designed, IE: not using a feeler gauge to set gap while trying to set that by adjusting wedge position and then hoping that it stays the same while shooting, and trying to use the wedge retention screw for a purpose that it was not designed for, IE: controlling wedge depth.

The Remmie is SO much easier to get shooting well, and to disassemble and assemble for cleaning while maintaining point of aim, that it makes it a far friendlier revolver to shoot out of the box than any out of the box replica Colt. This is why I always recommend it as a first C&B revolver.


Jaxenro, have you shot a Uberti Remmie? They are very different (and more authentic) in grip dimension and contour as compared to Pietta.


Willie

.

 

[ClemBert]

ClemBert: That is a BEAUTIFUL pair of revolver! I love that finish on the Remington, tell me, does the charcoal bluing hold up well? Thanks!

For me it holds up well but I tend to baby all my firearms. I don't shoot from a holster so I can't attest to how the finish fairs against leather. My guess is that all finishes will show leather wear even stainless steel.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I think I may be getting the Remington, as I've heard from many people that it is a better first time BP revolver, as echoed by replies in this thread. I think the design is very neat looking! I think of course, after I get some experience with the New Model Army, a Dragoon will be in my future to! !

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I had a friend that had lots of cap and ball revolvers. He had more trouble with his colt repos. than his 1858's, but still preferred the colt clones because they felt better in his hand.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

Here is a good reason to go with the 1858...

Cabela's is having a Last-Minute Deals! SALE December 19th-24th

The 8" or 5 1/2" Pietta 1858 Clones will be priced $179.99

There are also deals on shipping, and coupon dollars off out there you can add. This is a hard deal to pass up.