Dragoon vs Walker for Close Range Deer Hunt?

[ldlfh7]

I am relatively new to BP shooting and quickly realized the brass frame revolver I purchased looks cool but cannot be loaded with much powder. I am the type of person always looking for alternative ways to hunt and I think it would be a blast to take a whitetail with BP revolver (legal in my state MO if it is 40 cal or larger so don't go on about the legalities here).

I am looking for the pros and cons of the Walker and Dragoon with the intent of whitetail hunting. I live in a very hilly brush filled forest so long shots are out of the question. I will probably set up for no more than a 25 yard shot.

Any advice or concerns would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[rodwha]

Maybe you'd prefer to use a short barrel 1858/1860 in .44 cal. They'd be much lighter and handier. Are you stuck on a Dragoon/Walker?

I want a Walker to hunt with, as well as the historical appeal along with the awe factor.

I have a Ruger Old Army for now that I'd use. It's probably best suited I suppose.

The Yahoo Percussion Revolver group has several guys who hunt with their pistols too (hog mostly).

 

[rodwha]

Do you intend on using RB's or conicals/bullets?

 

[Cosmoline]

The biggest drawback of the Walker would be that @#$ loading lever coming loose. Yes there are semi-fixes for it, but I discovered if you're loading at max charge those fixes tend to un-fix themselves, so you still end up having to check the lever every time.

The Dragoons seem to be slightly less cannon-like in handling. For hunting you'll probably want some kind of support sticks either way.

 

[ldlfh7]

I guess I am not set on any particular model, just sounds like the walker or dragoon holds a good deal of powder. If I could pull off an ethical shot with the 1858/1860 I could also go that route. I just do not have a wealth of knowledge with the C&B revolvers. I just want to make sure I have something that will put some meat in my freezer.

 

[rodwha]

The guys in that group take home hogs up to about 275 lbs and most seem to use the 1858 or Ruger Old Army.

30 grns of T7 sent a RB from an 1860 20 something inches into ballistics gel.

You may prefer a conical over a RB if the deer are rather large, but a RB may be plenty. I'm not experienced yet to say that a RB is or is not enough, but one fellow uses a Walker with a RB for hogs if the range isn't much more than 25 yds claiming the wound is much worse than from a bullet.

 

[Cosmoline]

Both the Walker & Dragoon were designed to bring down a war horse, not merely a man. There were other, much smaller, revolvers for use on solely human foes.

 

[CraigC]

I like the beeg one.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Isn't weight a concern when you're hunting? It would be for me.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Purdy guns Craig !!!! (I know ,I know I'm gonna get the measurements to ya !!! sorry. May need to add a Remy in there too. Workin on gettin one and an R&D cyl.)

 

[Pancho]

I agree with Cosmoline the walker's loading lever would probably give you a fit if you ever needed a fast second shot. I have a buddy that carries a roll of electrician's tape with him, he loads, wraps the lever to the barrel with the tape fires the cylinder removes the tape then loads then repeats the process.

 

[Deleted member 208810]

ive seen a .44 ball pass clean through a little deer like south african animal,so either should work.

i think youre wise in preferring no longer than 25 yrds,thats about it anyway.

sometimes the max loads arent the most accurate.
but steel framed is better anyway.

best answer: the one your most comfortable with/shoot best. i use aSxS 12 w/730 grain slugs up close.i HATE tracking them into the thick sh*t. youre a real sportsman for goin with pistol,and i respect you for that. id pick the lighter weight one,recoil doesnt count in deer hunting.if your first shot doesnt hit him,chances are the next 5 definitely wont....but unload em anyway!!

 

[woodnbow]

I wouldn't worry that much about the weight differences... either should be fine. If the weight is a concern there's still time to exercise a bit before hunting season...

 

[Slamfire]

Well I will pee in the punch bowl:

I was not impressed with the power of my 3rd Model Dragoon. I might have been able to bump it up to 50 grains, but 40 grains, which is my recollection all I could have cram in the cylinder, shot a bullet lighter than a 158 grain 38 Special bullet at almost the same velocities.

The primitive sighting equipment on these old pistols, they shoot way high and are never dead on for windage (if your is, want to sell?) does not make them a first choice over a modern pistol.

When you are hunting an animal you ought to do the most to ensure that you do not cause needless pain and suffering. Get the equipment that is most likely to hit where you are aiming and provides more power than an old Police Revolver.

Colt 3rd Model Dragoon


142 gr .454 Round Ball 40 grain Volumic Measured GOEX FFG RWS cap
24 July 1999 T= 99 -100 ° F

Ave Vel = 785
Std Dev = 30
ES = 73
Low = 741
High = 814
N = 4


142 gr .454 Round Ball 40 grain Volumic Measured GOEX FFG CCI#11 cap

24 July 1999 T= 99 -100 ° F
Ave Vel = 837
Std Dev = 18
ES = 56
Low = 814
High = 870
N = 8


142 gr .454 Round Ball 40 grain Volumic Measured Pyrodex Rem #1 cap

24 July 1999 T= 99 -100 ° F
Ave Vel = 920
Std Dev = 0
ES = 0
Low = 920
High = 920
N = 1

too many solids caused
chronograph to malfunction.

 

[rodwha]

Try your tests again with 3F powder, and/or something more energetic than standard Goex such as their new powder, Olde Eynsford, which gives performance quite similar to Swiss/Triple 7.

Mike Beliveau's testing of powders/projectiles with 3F Goex and Triple 7 shows a significant difference in power despite a reduced load. His reading for Goex and a RB seems quite a bit low. I'd guess there was an error of some sort, but I'm no expert.

.................Goex.........................................Triple 7
RB..................40 grns 812/217........................33 grns 1062/371
Lee conical.......35 grns 805/324........................30 grns 968/469
255 grn Kaido...30 grns 744/314........................25 grns 920/479

 

[45 Dragoon]

Any tests with Swiss or T.7 in .45 colt ? 250 g Just wonderin what a converted Dragoon might do.

 

[swathdiver]

With a Dragoon or Ruger Old Army it's easy to get a round ball over 1,000 fps using Triple 7 or Swiss or Olde Eynsford. There's a fella in Miami who uses round ball for close (under 25-30 yards), open field shooting or Kaido Conicals for longer range (25-75 yards) or shooting in brush with an 1860 Army. All three guns have the power to drop a charging hog with one shot, if it's placed right.

Stick with the longer barrels and pick any .44 caliber gun. Pick the one that points naturally, fits most comfortably and then go practice, practice, practice.

 

[RandyRay41]

142 gr .454 Round Ball 40 grain Volumic Measured GOEX FFG RWS cap
24 July 1999 T= 99 -100 ° F

Ave Vel = 785
Std Dev = 30
ES = 73
Low = 741
High = 814
N = 4


142 gr .454 Round Ball 40 grain Volumic Measured GOEX FFG CCI#11 cap

24 July 1999 T= 99 -100 ° F
Ave Vel = 837
Std Dev = 18
ES = 56
Low = 814
High = 870
N = 8


The interesting part of this is the difference in muzzle velocity just from using a different cap.

 

[Crawdad1]

Seems odd that some of these tests are using 2Fg to test a revolver.

I've never considered it nor have I met anyone that used it or recommended it for use in a revolver.

 

[rodwha]

I have seen it recommended for use in a Walker using 2F Triple 7 with a full load (66 grns?) and a ball for hunting pigs. I asked why and the response was that it didn't build too high of a pressure as 3F would have, and was much more consistent with less velocity spread.

 

[Crawdad1]

I don't know anything about those powders but I see your point Rodwha. However, using GOEX 2Fg in a revolver and for testing muzzle velocity I just don't see the point of doing that.

 

[swathdiver]

Last week we shot our Walker with 50 grains of 2Fg powder so even the kids could shoot it and get a big blast without any recoil.

Testing with both 2fg and 3Fg is valid as they have different purposes. You could even use 4Fg with the proper cone with conical bullets and limit the powder charge to about 1/10th of bullet weight as in the old days.

 

[ldlfh7]

So what I am getting from the replies is that any 44 caliber well placed will do the job. Should I just save my money and use my 1851 navy? Even though it is brass frame, if I am within 10-15 yards, a head/neck shot should do the trick would it not? I have modified the sights on this and have become quite proficient with it. I know the fps and ft lbs is not going to be where you would recommend but I am talking close range. I live on 400+ acres and there are so many deer it is ridiculous. Getting in this close will not be an issue. I already do it with a bow.

 

[swathdiver]

Is your '51 Navy brasser in .44 cal?

If you load it up to 30 grains or so you'll soon stretch the frame or loosen the arbor and make it a wall-hanger.

I think even 20-25 grains of Swiss, Olde E or Triple 7 would do the same thing eventually.

Since you're proficient with the '51 Army style, just get one with a steel frame.

Anyone here wear out a brasser in .36 or .44? Just how much powder and for how long until it went out of service?

 

[ldlfh7]

Yes 44 cal. Using 25 gr Pydrodex P. 10-15 yard shot should work if placement is there. If not let me know why.