Still just a tool. Misused however often, it is the best for its job. It requires care in its application, but when it is needed, the need is IMMEDIATE and IMPERATIVE. Misuse by others is in NO way an acceptable reason for restrictions on my rights, nor is it an indictment against my ability to use it properly.But it's not just any tool. It spits death and destruction at a distance. Once it is discharged, the projectile can not be called back. It requires care, attention, presence of mind and physical coordination to manage safely. Just ask Plaxico Burress....The gun is a tool....
WHAT? That's no answer at all! He said he was enjoying a drink at home and would defend himself if attacked. You suggested that being at home was different than being in public. I asked what you would have him do --if attacked in public, then, DIE?No -- just don't drink if you're carrying a gun.So....if he was out in public he should...what? Die?
No, that's true, but we're debating whether the law should disarm the law abiding folks who would enjoy a drink. To that end, your opinion (vote) matters.But I, at least, have not been convinced that it can be considered a responsible practice to drink any alcohol when carrying a gun in public. Of course no one has to care what I think. But that doesn't change my opinion.
While it's uncommon for prescription medications to be prescribed at levels that would result in symptoms of drunkenness, you are correct that a person needs to be responsible in how/when they use prescription medications that can impair judgement and coordination.I hope you apply the same standard to your prescription meds.
They should also be aware that if they are using prescription medications that are known to impair judgement and coordination it may very well become a factor in the legal aftermath of a shooting. It won't simplify things.
I've made this point elsewhere and it's a GOOD one:
I've been so tired that I could hardly keep my eyes open. I've been too sick to stand. I've been on medications that had strange side-effects (though admittedly never anything hallucinogenic or psychotropic). I've been so cold that I lost motor control of my hands.
But I've never given up my right to armed self-defense because of those issues. And it would be a STRANGE day indeed for someone, especially here on THR, to claim that I should be legally bound to do so.
Of course, any of those issues COULD come up in a trial. Or any of 1000 other issues that the prosecutor could try to make appear influential to the incident. Just as could be with a few drinks in my system. But that doesn't reduce or eliminate my right and responsibility to defend my life or those of loved ones.
And it is inconceivable that we would accept a LAW that does so, either!
It probably includes SOME drugs from each of the very broad groups you mention but it certainly doesn't include all of them.Yep, that would include blood thinners, allergy medications, inhibitors, steroids, mood levelers, cold medications, etc.
Yep, that would include blood thinners, allergy medications, inhibitors, steroids, mood levelers, cold medications, etc.
DAVIDSDIVAD said:As a Student pharmacist, I facepalmed when I read this.
I have made no claims or implications of the statistical probability of such an incident.Ah yes, the statistically remote incident.
Yes, exactly. Although, as you point out, you may find persons on your jury who, as you put it, "stigmatize one very specific type of behavior". This thread and some of the responses on it should be MORE than adequate evidence of that.Just as the jury of your peers will decide if that over-the-counter cold medicine you took because you were feeling a little sniffly (the one that states "do not operate heavy machinery" on the package) affected your decision-making capability or impaired your judgement in any way.
No. As I pointed out, SOME of the drugs from the very broad groups that you listed have the potential to impair a person and carry appropriate warnings. Certainly not "all".All of those warn against using while operating heavy machinery.
JohnKSa said:No. As I pointed out, SOME of the drugs from the very broad groups that you listed have the potential to impair a person and carry appropriate warnings. Certainly not "all".
I eluded to it earlier...we have some pretty stupid firearms laws here in NC. Being legally drunk and carrying a firearm is poor judgement, but IIRC the law states that any amount of alcohol is considered a felony when carrying. You also cannot carry in any establishment that serves alcohol (including a fine dining restaurant), whether or not you are engaged in consuming alcohol at that location. That law is beyond my comprehension.I am SURE that somebody in this long thread has said this already, but drinking + CCW is a ticket straight to jail here in North Carolina. Do not pass GO, do not collect $200.
inSight NEO said:Agreed. But, why abuse the rights you have? Why make stupid or in the very least, less than wise decisions just because you can?
I guess what Im saying is...if you want to maintain certain uninhibited "rights," then why treat them in ridiculous and potentially harmful ways?
This is only opens the door to governmental mandate(s). Give someone enough rope....so the saying goes.
The law in Pennsylvania has been what it is for at least twenty years. I say "at least" because I don't know what the law said prior to 1989. As far as I know, it has never been illegal to drink while armed in Pennsylvania. That doesn't bode well for your argument that the the powers that be are waiting like vultures for us to hang ourselves.Be smart and try not to give "the powers that be" any reason to step in and make things worse. I mean, dont many, many out there hate guns enough? Why add fuel to the fire through irresponsibility? It makes no sense.
The fundamental question isn't a degree of responsibility - it's a question of legality.But I, at least, have not been convinced that it can be considered a responsible practice to drink any alcohol when carrying a gun in public. Of course no one has to care what I think. But that doesn't change my opinion.
DAVIDSDIVAD said:comparing OTCs and alcohol is like comparing apples and papayas