Dumbest gun rumor...

[Mikul]

"A .45 will blow your leg clean off." -from a relative who shall remain nameless

"The H&K is a knockoff of the Glock." -from an anonymous club member

 

[Josey]

The "untracable" Glock bullets are reality. The polygonal rifling makes it pretty improbable that a particular bullet could be traced to any particular Glock pistol. We ran into this a few years ago in a LEO/BG shootout. The autopsy recovered bullets could not be matched to duty weapons that were fired. I understand that it can be done though. Money, technology and a advanced laboratory environment are required though. The rumour that only a trained gunsmith can work on guns is one I dislike.

 

[Bravo11]

After someone learned of my CCW he told me that if I shoot someone outside of my house to drag them back in before the cops got there.

 

[Zundfolge]

From here: http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=\Culture\archive\200302\CUL20030217b.html

[ Rep. Danny Davis (D-Ill.)] believes the 500 Magnum has a greater potential for becoming a lethal inner-city status symbol than an effective hunting tool, at least in his congressional district. He added that its high power combined with its concealability could make it the "weapon of choice" for urban gangs.

Currie compared the 500 Magnum to "military-style assault weapons," although she had no information to base her claims on except for a "tip" received from a reporter.

"I'm not a weapons expert, but it sounded like pretty strong firepower to me," Currie said. "The description I heard was that from a significant range you could fell a large bear."

On a positive note it looks like this silly Democrat has finaly ended our "which handgun for Bear?" debates

 

[para.2]

Perhaps not really what you were looking for but... " It's an 88 magnum... it shoots through schools! "( Joe Piscopo in Johhny Dangerously)

 

[Balog]

Josey: it's virtually impossible to match a fired bullet to a particular gun in any make. TV is lying to you.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

Obviously $1,000 wheelguns the size of a compact car are going to be the concealed carry weapon of choice for gang bangers.

God bless the differently abled. I'm glad their finding work. I just wish they weren't working as elected officials.

 

[Joe Demko]

Balog said:

it's virtually impossible to match a fired bullet to a particular gun in any make.

Care to expand on that?

 

[MarineTech]

The one gun quote that used to absolutely drive me up the wall in the Marines was "The Russians designed their guns so that they could fire our ammunition as well as theirs."

I ended up doing many, MANY push-ups as a PFC when I had the temerity to correct a Staff Sergeant on this one.

 

[cool45auto]

That if there were no guns in the world there would be rainbows and koalas everywhere! (or something along those lines)

 

[del4]

My ex-bro-in-law told me that bullets from his FN FAL traveled through the air end over end and sawed through its victim. I'm sure he picked that up at the gunshop. BTW, he bought it in the '80's, it was a nib, pre-ban real deal fn fal with all of the goodies. It has maybe one box of ammo through it. He is not a gun person, his ex-wife, my sister, bought it for him. He doesn't know what he has. I hope he gives me first wack at it if he sells it.

 

[extremefishin00]

One night, I went to see my dad and had this conversation:

Me: I'm thinking about buying something in 9mm or .45 for carry
Dad: Naw, don't get those. Get yourself a .25
Me: Uh huh...and why would I do that?
Dad: I was talking to a state trooper the other day and he said he'd rather have that .25 than a 9mm.
Me: Well, what about the .357 Sig?
Dad: Naw, he said they just penetrate too much. They go right through the guy.
Me: Let me get this straight, a state trooper said he'd give up 15 9mm's for 5 or 6 .25's?
Dad: Yeah, he said the .25 doesn't overpenetrate, it goes in and stays in.

About this point I'd had enough and decided to change the subject. I got tired of him showing off his Raven .25, and was worried that it might fall apart from the handling. I just hope there isn't a Va state trooper out there somewhere carrying a Raven or Jennings in his duty holster..

Chris

 

[BluesBear]

it's virtually impossible to match a fired bullet to a particular gun in any make.

Poppycock!

 

[Standing Wolf]

Only cops need guns.

 

[E=MC^2]

I always hear undeducated morons saying you can't lawfully use a pre-ban magazine in a post-ban firearm. Even an area CCW instructor brought this up in a class.

Or some that call the Klinton 10-round mags "standard capacity".

 

[another48hrs]

From a forensic expert looking at revolver.

"Yup just what I thought, its a .45 magnum."

 

[orangeninja]

Actually you can trace SOME bullets to the gun of origin. The really fun part is when you have CASINGS to go along with it. For instance. A punk shoots his 9mm and kills a kid somewhere. He leaves brass on the ground and takes of running. Said punk is found with a 9mm a weak later and he is suspected. They fire a few samples into get and:

1. Match the rifling grooves of the bullets to the one in the body. They WILL be slightly different but the base of the bullet should just about measure the same width of the line and width between the grooves.

2. Approximate velocity may be determined by examining the spread of the round...but thats a little voodoo and probably is next to useless now days.

Gun barrels even from the same manufacturer DO have slight differences that may be able to be seen under a high powered micro scope...but it is a lot better if you have crime seen brass for the following:

1. The ejector will leave a certain mark, the width and depth will vary from gun to gun. The brass will have minor scratches where the ejector grabs the casing.

2. The primer will be struck at a certain width, depth and angle. Primer strikes are rarely 100 percent dead center and tend to slightly vary. The force in which the primer strikes may be measured as well as the height and width of the indention.

3. The casing may have mag or chambering marks.

4. Powder burns on a victim matching the powder residue within the gun.

5. Bullet brands and sizes matching.

etc.

That is just my limited knowledge from criminal justice studies.

 

[cracked butt]

.50 caliber sniper rifles shoot a cartridge the size of a ketchup bottle and can shoot down satellites.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

Alduro, interesting information.

I've often wondered if you couldn't pull finger prints from brass, or maybe even DNA samples. Does the brass get so hot it cooks this information? otherwise it seems it would be difficult to load a magazine without leaving fingerprints on the brass.

 

[BluesBear]

If the cartridge cases are brass and if they are relatively dry and if the person loading them had enough body oils on his/her fingers then there is a very good chance of recovering fingerprints off of a fired casing.

However, since fingerprints like that can remain on brass for extended periods of time, sometimes even months or years, it could be hard to prove that that person was the one who loaded or last handled the ammunition.

 

[goalie]

That .25, .32 and .380 rounds will fall off a Levi jacket at close range. I've also heard the story about the very large man "up north"who was shot in the forehead with a .380 at close range and the bullet bounced off.

I am not sure about the .380, but I saw a guy who was shot in the head with a .45 APC that was alert, oriented, stable and talking to us in the ambulance. The bullet didn't just "bounce off" but it didn't do a whole lot to the guy. He was shot from about 10 feet away in the center of the forehead.






Now, for the rest of the story...............


Turns out that he was shot by a guy who's house he was breaking into. The guy had shot him with ammo that probably was surplused sometime before WWII and the powder was not so fresh, nor did the ammo appear to have been stored in a cool, DRY place for the 80 or so years it was stored. I ended up talking to a few of the cops again a month or so later in the ER and asking them about it and they mentioned that it was amazing that the ammo fired. It took multiple trys to get another round from the guys box of ammo to fire.

I wouldn't always discount wierd stories you hear about people being shot. You can see some wierd things at a Level 1 Trauma Center.

 

[MrChicken]

"Guns Kill People"

 

[MrChicken]

"That .25, .32 and .380 rounds will fall off a Levi jacket at close range. I've also heard the story about the very large man "up north"who was shot in the forehead with a .380 at close range and the bullet bounced off."

At my range, Rangemaster in Memphis TN, they have a binder clip that was used to hold up a target that stopped a .380 bullet. The FMJ RN bullet is actually spilt down the middle 90% of way through by wire spring part of the clip (the part you aqueeze to open the binder clip). The bullet is still stuck on the wire. It was a 1 in a million shot, by whomever did it.

They use that to demo why they dont advise people to use the .380 as a defensive round.

 

[MagKnightX]

Funny you should ask...

in my Spanish class, we were discussing how the new principal is driving the school into the ground (but that's a story for somewhere else) when, on the topic of the Senior's parking permits, I mentioned that according to Virginia law, (at least last I checked), you could keep a rifle in the trunk of your car, even in a school parking lot, so long as you could legally own it. They said no, that was illegal concealment (it could be now, possibly, if they changed it) and that you needed a license to own a gun (in VA, not IL or MA), and how it was illegal for a non-dealer to privately sell a gun to another person, and how I obviously knew nothing about guns.

I'm bringing in copies of the relevant statutes on Monday.

 

[Balog]

Casings are indeed useful. Bullets, however, are much more problematic. Keep in mind this is my understanding of the subject. Feel free to point out any areas I may be mistaken about.

First, you need a relatively intact projectile. The less complete and undeformed the projectile, the less the certainty. Not a problem with most handgun rounds, but a problem with some rifles.

Modern firearms are mass produced. They are, as much as possible, exactly uniform. As alduro pointed out, it is possible to say that a bullet was probably fired from a certain gun. But it's not like a fingerprint. The level of certainty is rather low. You should be able to nail it down to a certain make, but after that it's rather uncertain.

It's also different from a fingerprint in that it changes easily. Shoot another box or two of ammo and those microscopic differences that set it apart from the thousands of others exactly like it chamge ever so slightly. Every round sent down the barrel lowers the already low level of certainty that the projectile was from a certain weapon.

And that's only if the shooter is stupid. Run a stainless steel brush down the barrel or fire a bullet dipped in oil then sand and the characteristics change. Switch barrels, either before or after the shooting, and that once again completely changes the marks.

Let me quote John Ross for a rather simplified version of what I'm getting at.

There is no way to prove a given rifle
was the murder weapon."
"Your ballistic tests can't determine that?"
"No, sir. I'm afraid television has misled everyone. On low-velocity handgun bullets, the rifling marks are
distinguishing characteristics, but they are not fingerprints. Fingerprints have a pattern; the striations on a
fired bullet are random. And running a stainless steel brush down the bore of a pistol will result in a new set
of random striations on the next bullet fired. Visual analysis is really only useful to eliminate handguns as
suspected murder weapons. A recovered bullet with six rifling marks on it could not have been fired from a
Smith & Wesson revolver, for example, because barrels on those guns have five lands and grooves."
"I see."
"The higher the velocity, the more the bullet is deformed, and the less useful this sort of comparison
becomes. When you are dealing with high-velocity target and varmint rifles, it's pointless. Those bullets
literally vaporize when they hit. With the occasional exception of the base of the jacket, you are unlikely to
find a single fragment larger than the head of a pin.