How many licks to get to the center of an Elk?

[H&Hhunter]

In 30 some odd elk I've never lost one. Knock on wood. I always try to put a bullet between the shoulder blades and I primarily use a round that is capable of doing that from any angle. I am also not a long range elk shooter. I tend to make most of my kills in thick dark timber at closer ranges. It's what has worked well for me in my 30+ years of elk hunting. My longest elk kill was 443 yards. Most have been under 200 yards.

 

[H&Hhunter]

And no shoulder joint. Which makes a body wonder if one who would assert that (not question) has actually seen an elk with its hide off.

My money says no!

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Of course it would be nice to have a dog and a horse. Track the wounded elk with the dog, and pack him out with the horse.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Be nice to have a horse that would blood track!

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Be nice to have a horse that would blood track!

Or a dog you could ride.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Even better!

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I'm pretty close to having one of those. The first of this month, I went out to the stable to feed the horse and donkey, and there was a pit bull curled up on the mat.

From his looks and smell, I figured he'd been dead about two weeks. But he rolled his eyes at me. He could barely get up, had a wound in his back a foot long and an inch and a half long. He looked like he'd been in a concentration camp. The Humane Society wouldn't take him -- they have a no-pit bulls policy.

So we fed him, put Cut Heal on his wound, picked the ticks off him. and got him well enough that I could take him into town to the vet without fear of him dying on the way. The vet said he was a year old, and he weighed 53 lbs.

Right now he's just about healed and weights a good 60+ pounds -- and he's the most loyal, loving dog you ever saw. By this time next year, I'll try him under saddle.

 

[bikerdoc]

I'm pretty close to having one of those. The first of this month, I went out to the stable to feed the horse and donkey, and there was a pit bull curled up on the mat.

From his looks and smell, I figured he'd been dead about two weeks. But he rolled his eyes at me. He could barely get up, had a wound in his back a foot long and an inch and a half long. He looked like he'd been in a concentration camp. The Humane Society wouldn't take him -- they have a no-pit bulls policy.

So we fed him, put Cut Heal on his wound, picked the ticks off him. and got him well enough that I could take him into town to the vet without fear of him dying on the way. The vet said he was a year old, and he weighed 53 lbs.

Right now he's just about healed and weights a good 60+ pounds -- and he's the most loyal, loving dog you ever saw. By this time next year, I'll try him under saddle.

Good on you Vern.

 

[horsey300]

Be nice to have a horse that would blood track!

That's not funny! I had a horse that would scent a calving cow in a night blizzard and she'd take me right to the bovine. Always wanted to use her similarly in hunting, but none of my critters would run far enough to make it worth it so she was stuck just dragging em. Best horse to track blood on a given day is a half green colt, they ALWAYS let you know when you're close to something bloody! To stay with the topic at hand though, dad and grandpa put several Montana elk hunts in before grandpa passed (they were from the lewistown area) and there were a few times elk were hit more than once to convince them that they were more dead than they wanted to admit. I decided awhile back that some elk aren't so much tough as they are stubborn and argumentative, sometimes you just gotta convince em that they really are dead. When I get my chance to go I hope I don't need to argue with one too much but I'm prepared to deal with finding one as hard headed as my brother.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

My policy is to NOT stand there and "admire the shot" but to work the bolt as fast as I can, and if there's anything to shoot at when I've got a fresh round in the chamber, shoot it!

 

[Dog Soldier]

There maybe some difference in hunting elk. But no forum has as many real elk hunters as are posting here. I amazed at the real experiences I have read on this thread. Any of you would be welcome in my camp.

 

[RPRNY]

He's aiming for the wrong spot. The kill shot for an elk is behind the shoulder above what you might refer to as the elbow. The heart is in the area of that elbow and the lungs are above that. A neck shot is tricky because the spine is lower than most people realize but still above the centerline of the neck, most often a missed neck shot will simply pass through flesh or the esophagus. I took my elk this year with a 168gr .308 and hit it in the heart, it dropped in its tracks like a rock.

I agree. Shoulder and neck shots are lower percentage shots (although going for the break is sound - especially as Vern notes, when in heavy timber). But, dropping an elk in it's tracks with one shot is rare. They are large, tough, and their will to live is strong. My first shot on my elk this Fall, a very respectable but by no means large 5x5, was way back, over the stomach, through and through, and I near ruined both tenderloins. He was on the run and I got it wrong. 30-06 180 grs at 2800 fps and the elk at 175 yards. All that did was slow him to a walk. Next shot just behind the shoulder/elbow liquefied the lungs and clipped the heart. He still walked 15 drunken yards before he went down.

A chap I was hunting with shot an old bull the next day, teeth so worn this may have been his last winter, but a very nice bulky 6x7 rack. One shot, 7mm Mag at 120 yards, lungs and heart destroyed, it still ran 30 yards. When he butchered it, he took THREE other bullets out of the poor fellow, all from seasons passed with well healed wounds. That's one tough SOB.

 

[H&Hhunter]

"Shoulder and neck shots are lower percentage shots"

D12,

What are you calling a "shoulder" shot? The way I've described a shoulder shot it is 100% and rapidly fatal.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I shot one with my .35 Brown-Whelen (the most radical form of the Whelen) at around 100 yards. The elk was jumping down into a logging road, then on down the mountain. I held a bit forward and he disappeared. He fell and slid down the mountain about a hundred yards or so -- steep terrain -- until his antlers dug in.

When I skinned his right side, the right leg fell off. When I skinned the left side, the left leg fell off. There was a hole the size of my thumb going into the brisket, and a slightly larger one coming out. The load was a 225 grain Nosler Partition Jacket at around 2,800 fps.

I admit, I never had another shot do quite that well, no matter how hard I try.

 

[grund53]

My policy is to NOT stand there and "admire the shot" but to work the bolt as fast as I can, and if there's anything to shoot at when I've got a fresh round in the chamber, shoot it!

Well said!

 

[Coltdriver]

Back to the OPs question......I shot the only elk I have taken with a 130 grain Berger at about 200 yards. Shot just behind and slightly above the elbow which was perfect for a Berger as they enter and explode. Totally devastated the lungs. She ran right off and I shot her again above the shoulder in the spine. Down she went. By the time we walked the 200 yards she had expired. When I field dressed her I was stunned at the damage to the boiler room and the fact that she took off running!

I think what you saw was someone without the patience to let the animal expire who didn't want to track it and apparently without the skill to make a spine or neck shot.

 

[outlawjw]

Just my op but an accubond at close range out of a mag acts as a solid & just passes thru without expansion, thus slow bleeding .a ballistic tip blows up at close range but drops them like a rock. 140 gr btbt 7mm has always dropped them for me faster than all other bullets & calibre's I've ever seen , out of a couple hundred elk witnessed over 20 yrs

 

[grund53]

Just my op but an accubond at close range out of a mag acts as a solid & just passes thru without expansion, thus slow bleeding .a ballistic tip blows up at close range but drops them like a rock. 140 gr btbt 7mm has always dropped them for me faster than all other bullets & calibre's I've ever seen , out of a couple hundred elk witnessed over 20 yrs

I beg to differ. I load 200 grain Accubonds for my .300 win mag. The last two bulls I have killed were both shot in the timber under 100 yards. Both were heavy bodied Roosevelt elk. I recovered bullets from both and they mushroomed well and retained most of their weight.

 

[grund53]

I beg to differ. I load 200 grain Accubonds for my .300 win mag. The last two bulls I have killed were both shot in the timber under 100 yards. Both were heavy bodied Roosevelt elk. I recovered bullets from both and they mushroomed well and retained most of their weight.

Here is a picture of one of the Accubonds. the other one looked similar but I didn't take a picture of it.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I go with Nosler Partition Jackets, and don't see the need to try anything else. The PJs always open up, and they penetrate forever.

 

[Laphroaig]

I beg to differ. I load 200 grain Accubonds for my .300 win mag. The last two bulls I have killed were both shot in the timber under 100 yards. Both were heavy bodied Roosevelt elk. I recovered bullets from both and they mushroomed well and retained most of their weight.

Bottom line you killed 2 elk and are obviously happy. You never said where these bulls were hit, but I find it odd that 2 bulls with a 200 gr. bullet 300 WM at less than 100 yds and neither passed through. The OP was about bad luck Accubonds too. Nosler claims they behave the same as partitions but I'm starting to wonder if that is true.

I'm with you Vern, the design of Partitions practically guarantees what you're going to get. One of my sons shot a Colorado bull at 140 yds. this year with a .280 Rem using 160 gr. partitions and got a pass through. It was a heart shot so no heavy bones were hit. The elk ran about 10 yds.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I've had almost 100% excellent performance from Accobonds. Just like a partition they tend to retain about 60% of their weight.

I think they tend to open a bit quicker than a partition which can reduce penetration somewhat but not enough to matter. I've seen plenty of partitions that didn't pass through on elk. I've also seen big heavy X bullets that did not exit on elk. It simply depends on what the bullet hit on the way in, on how fast it was going when it hit and about 2 million other variables.

The one Accubond that I wasn't happy with was a 210 gr out of a .338 Rum at 3100 FPS +. The shot was at about 130 yards and the bull was quartering in pretty hard. The bullet busted the shoulder made a right turn and scooted down the ribs. It weighed about 100 hrs when recovered. The bull was killed on the second shot.

To put it in perspective. The billet was being pushed at super high velocity, it was a low SD bullet (light for caliber) and it got pushed through some heavy bone at a shallow angle. A tough if not impossible task for most bullets.

Every other AB I've used or seen used acted just like advertised. They do what a partition does but with better BC and accuracy potential.

I do NOT use ABs or PTs on thick skinned African DG they simply aren't tough enough for my tastes and there are far better choices available. But for anything outside of the largest bears they are just about perfect for the Western Hemisphere or plains game in Africa.

 

[wankerjake]

I've been impressed with the AB so far. They are supposed to mushroom and lose SOME weight, so you aren't going to always get a pass thru on elk. They aren't going to get the penetration a monolithic gets (neither will a Partition for the exact same reason). They absolutely get better penetration than a cup and core, consistently.

There is not enough info in the OP to say anything failed, we don't know where those bullets hit or how they performed. They may have been bad shots, or good shots and the elk was dead but they kept shooting because that's what you do with elk when they carry a bullet instead of falling down.

I imagine the AB does in reality perform much like a Partition, the reason I use the AB is for accuracy past 300 yards.

I can honestly say I am happy as a clam with the 180AB for the exact same reasons people love Partitions. Such a wild improvement over cup and core in the penetration dept.

I'm echoing H&H here I realize, but they have been just as consistent for me. He's got more experience then I do.

 

[Eleanor416Rigby]

I've learned in summary that Elk are big and tough enough that they are less likely than deer to go down immediately, even with a good shot, adequate caliber, and appropriate bullet. A couple of people have doubts about the Accubond bullets because they have seen them shear in half or fail to expand, but others swear by them with nothing but positive results. I thank everybody for the input because I intend to put it to good use.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I've seen a whole bunch of Nosler partition that have shed their nose on impact and all we find is the back half, the base of the partition. That's kind of what they are designed to do. Accubonds do about the same thing. They shed some of their forward mass on impact then the rear shank of the bullet drives through for penetration.