How many licks to get to the center of an Elk?

[H&Hhunter]

If you want super deep penetration and high weight retention. Use a monolithic like a Barnes or go with a solid shank bullet with a bonded nose such as Rhino, North Fork, or a Trophy bonded. In my experience Swift A Frames also tend to stick together and retain weight better than the Nosler PTs or ABs. We are so blessed to have so many quality bullet choices now days!

 

[JRWhit]

Edited : Self censorship, I was turning off topic.

 

[Eleanor416Rigby]

If you want super deep penetration and high weight retention. Use a monolithic like a Barnes or go with a solid shank bullet with a bonded nose such as Rhino, North Fork, or a Trophy bonded. In my experience Swift A Frames also tend to stick together and retain weight better than the Nosler PTs or ABs. We are so blessed to have so many quality bullet choices now days!

I'm glad you mentioned that, because I was thinking about using a Barnes or other monolithic for Elk and a Partition for deer. (My expectation is that the monolithic might not expand enough in a rib lung lung rib shot on a deer and it would result in the deer running into a place where it would be hard to recover.) So this leads to part two of the question: Is there a .308 bullet you have used successfully on both deer and elk? Or would you work up two separate loads according to species?

I'm leaning toward two loads, but I would consider an all around load.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I'm glad you mentioned that, because I was thinking about using a Barnes or other monolithic for Elk and a Partition for deer. (My expectation is that the monolithic might not expand enough in a rib lung lung rib shot on a deer and it would result in the deer running into a place where it would be hard to recover.) So this leads to part two of the question: Is there a .308 bullet you have used successfully on both deer and elk? Or would you work up two separate loads according to species?

I'm leaning toward two loads, but I would consider an all around load.

Barnes TSX or TTSX I've never had an issue killing deer or elk with it. Nosler Accubond or partition ditto.

 

[wankerjake]

Not to step on H&H's toes, but I say they are all good choices and shoot shoulder instead of behind the shoulder. They are all good quality bullets that get good penetration which is what you want for elk. They also ruin noticeably less meat than bullets that come apart (like standard soft points, ballistic tips, HP etc etc) so honestly you're not losing much meat by hitting that leg (generally). And they anchor so much better because your are hitting more important organs and bones (heart, lung, aortic trunk, major leg/shoulder bones and joints as opposed to just lungs and ribs).

For me, the 180AB from a 300wsm is my do all, 80lb deer to mature bull elk, with excellent performance and minimal meat loss on 3 bull elk and 5 coues deer.

If I can't talk you out of a behind the shoulder lung shot then I guess I'd go bonded or partition for a little better expansion (arguably). For shoulder shots on elk, hard to beat a Barnes TTSX in my opinion and I believe H&H's. Penetration is king with that kind of shot on a large animal.

 

[Eleanor416Rigby]

Growing up, I was told to shoot as close to the shoulder as possible without hitting it. (Later, a couple guys failed to convert me to a neck shooter.) I have noticed that shoulder usually means down right there; a few ribs back usually means several steps before it's down. Shooting archery, I learned to aim as if to angle toward the off-side shoulder and to pass on a shot where I can't get an angle to the off-side shoulder.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Shooting archery, I learned to aim as if to angle toward the off-side shoulder and to pass on a shot where I can't get an angle to the off-side shoulder.

Once I started shooting to hit the off shoulder stuff started dying really fast. Think of it as if there is a basket ball that sits between the shoulders that your are trying deflate with your bullet or arrow.

That shot will work on just about any animal on the planet. With the exception of elephant and giraffe. They have really funky vital placement.

African PHs can tell you story after story of Americans shooting behind the shoulder and losing game. On African game the vitals are under the shoulders PERIOD. A shot behind the line of the shoulders is a gut shot.

On American game the heart, aorta, and lungs also reside between the shoulders. The difference being that the diaphragm sits further back so the lungs extend back to the end of the rib cage. This allows for the classic American behind the shoulder shot.

African game, the diaphragm is located at the aft edge of the shoulder line.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

I've seen a whole bunch of Nosler partition that have shed their nose on impact and all we find is the back half, the base of the partition. That's kind of what they are designed to do. Accubonds do about the same thing. They shed some of their forward mass on impact then the rear shank of the bullet drives through for penetration.

Yes that's the idea and it sure works. Not a elk hunter but I have more then a few moose and caribou under my belt(in the 90's the Mulchatna herd caribou limit was 5 a day-will we ever again see such times)?
Always looked to me like the rapidly exploding NP front created a "hydraulic " bomb like effect as the base went on to break the off bone.
NP. Often imitated never beaten.

 

[redneck2]

Or as others have said, sometime they run further than others. I've seen many a deer make it 100 yds or better without a heart left to pump blood.

I shot a smallish buck in the right front of the chest, angling to the left rear. Exited out just in front of the ham. 12 gauge Remington Copper Solid at 30 yards. They have a hollow point and there are four petals that fan out. Destroyed the heart and left lung. He still ran 80-100 yards.

I think we see too many Hollywood movies that make a rifle look like an atomic bomb. Critters are tough.

 

[Eleanor416Rigby]

Once I started shooting to hit the off shoulder stuff started dying really fast.

That has been my experience too.

 

[outlawjw]

I very rarely have a ballistic tip pass through usually find it just under skin on far side , but have never had an elk hit with 140 btbt 7mm run more than 40 yards . Now I don't hunt dark timber.

 

[rootie3]

To the OP... Since you haven't hunted/shot an elk and have limited information, I hope you learned something from these posts. These animals are big and tough. I've blown the top of the heart out to include the aorta and still had the animal go 40 yards. I agree wit the poster who said that a hunter who can get off necessary second and third shots for the take-down is a skilled hunter.

Larry

 

[outlawjw]

The only elk I had trouble getting down I shot with a 300 weatherby 180 gr accutip. First shot through both lungs above the heart at 300 yards there about & a second shot at around 600 yards about an in from first shot & that could have been part of the problem. A few more yards & a fence tangle stopped him . I had several before that year & several since that 140 btbt 7 mm took right down ..
My wife is the only hunter I personally have ever made a DRT shot 30-06 150 light Magnum , around 350 yards.

 

[outlawjw]

Dry shot should have been DRT

 

[Bbear]

This year's elk was taken at 137 yards with a 6.5 142 NABLR moving at a muzzle velocity of 3200 fps. Estimated impact speed around 2900-3000 fps. It passed through both shoulders and the elk dropped in his tracks. Then, he got back up! He was facing away from me so I put another one in. Nicked a twig on the way in about 2 feet from the animal. Bullet entered the right ham, punched through the pelvis, traversed the intestines and ended up on the inside of the left shoulder. He stayed down after that. The hole in the pelvis was about .3-.4" in size. Good-sized bull, he was an old 5x5 with good mass but not much length of tine. Estimated his live weight around 600-650. Here's the elk where he lay and the one Accubond LR I found on the inside left shoulder. Entrance (inside of shoulder) and exit (also inside of shoulder)

 

[H&Hhunter]

Bear

Are you shooting a .264 Win or maybe a .26 Nosler?

 

[outlawjw]

That bullet did a good job & isn't a 30 or up cal. That would have went most of the way through before starting to open up & dump energy . The more energy that gets dumped into the body the more shock his system gets , the faster they fall.

 

[Paul7]

Bottom line you killed 2 elk and are obviously happy. You never said where these bulls were hit, but I find it odd that 2 bulls with a 200 gr. bullet 300 WM at less than 100 yds and neither passed through. The OP was about bad luck Accubonds too. Nosler claims they behave the same as partitions but I'm starting to wonder if that is true.

I'm with you Vern, the design of Partitions practically guarantees what you're going to get. One of my sons shot a Colorado bull at 140 yds. this year with a .280 Rem using 160 gr. partitions and got a pass through. It was a heart shot so no heavy bones were hit. The elk ran about 10 yds.

Does it matter if the bullet passes through? It seems to me you want the bullet energy expended inside the animal instead of the surrounding countryside.

 

[Casefull]

Elk are seldom 100% broadside to the shooter. It helps to allow for the angle or the quartering as it is commonly referred to. Breaking any upper leg bones is always helpful. I shot a large bull full in the chest, hit the heart, he spun and took off down a steep heavily timbered mountain. My next and only shot was in the left hip. That broke the leg bone and put him down. Lots of times they do not know they are dead, adrenaline takes them quite a ways, especially downhill . Make a great first shot and then get the next one in as soon as possible. One of the rare problems of lighter bullets, is the deflection possible when hitting hard, heavy bones in an elk. Most any bullet will kill an elk but for the times your bullet hits heavy bone, especially at an angle, a 180g or larger lead bullet is hard to beat. It has a much better chance of breaking bone and going into the vitals than lighter bullets.

The below bullet was the first shot at a large old bull I shot last year. Bullet is barnes 150g ttsx at 2900fps. About 170yds. Bullet was under hide at top of back/neck area. I was amazed at how bent it was. First time a barnes ttsx has not expanded for me. It glanced off shoulder bone. I was holding a little forward in order for the shot to hit the vitals as the animal was at 45degree angle to me. I shot again thinking I missed as I was higher, the elk went down with bullet mushrooming and passing through. If I had hit the same first shot with my 375 it would have probably done the job.

 

[DownInTheDark]

I shot a 5x5 elk last year in the shoulder with a 270, 130 gr. He went down cause the bullet broke both shoulders, but he was not done fighting till I put 2 more rounds in him, and then a 357 mag in the back of his head. Last year my hunting partner shot 2 elk with a 300rum and they both ran off and were never seen again. They don't die easily.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Elk are seldom 100% broadside to the shooter. It helps to allow for the angle or the quartering as it is commonly referred to. Breaking any upper leg bones is always helpful. I shot a large bull full in the chest, hit the heart, he spun and took off down a steep heavily timbered mountain. My next and only shot was in the left hip. That broke the leg bone and put him down. Lots of times they do not know they are dead, adrenaline takes them quite a ways, especially downhill . Make a great first shot and then get the next one in as soon as possible. One of the rare problems of lighter bullets, is the deflection possible when hitting hard, heavy bones in an elk. Most any bullet will kill an elk but for the times your bullet hits heavy bone, especially at an angle, a 180g or larger lead bullet is hard to beat. It has a much better chance of breaking bone and going into the vitals than lighter bullets.

The below bullet was the first shot at a large old bull I shot last year. Bullet is barnes 150g ttsx at 2900fps. About 170yds. Bullet was under hide at top of back/neck area. I was amazed at how bent it was. First time a barnes ttsx has not expanded for me. It glanced off shoulder bone. I was holding a little forward in order for the shot to hit the vitals as the animal was at 45degree angle to me. I shot again thinking I missed as I was higher, the elk went down with bullet mushrooming and passing through. If I had hit the same first shot with my 375 it would have probably done the job.

Interesting, I've read accounts of smaller diameter x bullets doing the same when hitting at a steep angle. Glad I got to actually see one.

Smaller diameter being sub .338 BTW.