Empty hand training

[Dr_2_B]

I carry a handgun daily, but I would like to train in empty hand skills. I have two equal priorities:

#1 Learn sound defensive skills so I have some tool other than a gun
#2 Get in a little better physical shape and drop a few pounds

At the moment, I'm thinking of a considerable commitment of time; say, 3-4 days a week including sparring, etc. Can you guys recommend a school/discipline/regimen and give me a little info? Or perhaps recommend a good resource?

thanks

 

[SHusky57]

Martial Arts

1. Pick an empty hand system that uses full-speed, full-contact training. This is the most important thing. Systems that use katas and point sparring are to full-speed, full-contact systems as shooting a paper target at the range is to running an IPSC/IDPA match. While most will agree IPSC/IDPA is not combat, it uses the full spectrum of skills - drawing, shooting, moving, reloading, and all at the fastest safe speed possible.
2. Pick something appropriate to your finances, time, location, etc.

My recommendations would be brazilian jiu-jitsu or Judo. If those are unavailable, boxing or Muay Thai are good. Even wrestling could be useful if that is all you have. Tae Kwon Do and Karate mcDojos are useless. Some people may disagree, but on a person of the same athletic ability and training, I will always put my money on the one that has trained in their combat art at full speed/full contact. Granted, it may be a few months before you can do full speed sparring (striking), whereas with grappling you can jump in after a few weeks. PM me if you want more details.

Quality of instruction will vary from school/dojo to school/dojo so check around. As a beginner, you need a base set of skills. If you have a strong foundation in either grappling or striking, you can add on later. Aikido by itself is not very good (cops may disagree, but cops don't need self-defense the way civies do. They have guns, tasers, and back up. It's easier to use MA techniques when you have those at your disposal). But if you have a strong foundation in Judo or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Aikido will be easy to add on and implement.

MMA is not hand to hand combat, IDPA is not defensive shooting. But they are the closest we can get while maintaining an acceptable level of safety.
TKD point sparring and Karata kata competitions may be fun or pretty, but they aren't combat training.

If you get a solid background in grappling or striking, add techniques from Krav Maga or Aikido or whatever you like. But if you don't know basic strikes, basic slips/counters, basic takedown defense, basic takedowns, and basic groundfighting skills - nothing else matters. They must be intuitive, they must be trained, and they must become muscle memory. If you can't defend a simple double-leg or slip a punch, I guarantee you the most advanced knife/gun disarms will end up getting you killed (and they might even do that).

PM me if you want to continue this.
My main experience is BJJ (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu) and submission grappling at Blue Belt/intermediate level. I am not a martial arts master by any means, and after high school did not continue training (I got busy with college, it got expensive, etc.) but I did train rigorously in high school 4 times a week, 2-3 hours per day.

I have done a little boxing (none competitive) and muay thai (none competitive). I have also done Hapkido and Aikido. A few months in a good Judo or BJJ school = years of Aikido. But a year of BJJ combined with a few months of Aikido = well rounded defense system.

YMMV. Don't get into internet hype or marketing. Watch MMA to see what works. If you want to resort to "poke him in the eyes, kick him in the crotch" don't waste your time with training. Hopefully you will be able to use those techniques in real-life. They may work. But if you can't hit a moving target and avoid being hit (basic boxing 101) good luck.

Aikido footwork is really good BTW. But by itself, you just won't be able to avoid clinches, takedowns, and getting hit in the face. Forget Steven Seagall movies. Watch some real fights on youtube and some MMA fights on TV. It's not pretty, but that's kind of what it's like.

And last.... go to a Judo dojo or a BJJ school and try a class out. Grapple at the end. You will realize how much you don't know, how much there is to learn, and will have a measurable way to test your skills other than memorizing a kata or point sparring.

A lot of BJJ schools offer Muay Thai, Boxing, or MMA training as well.

One last thing.... Judo or BJJ (or any "sport" grappling) system are good for these reasons.
1. You will learn how to grapple. To get the balance and feel of techniques, full speed is important. You can't learn balance just by drilling a technique. I don't know how to describe it, but talk to me after 3 months of training and you will know what I am talking about.
2. Chokes and joint locks can subdue an attacker without lethal force.
3. If you are grabbed, which is likely in an encounter, you will be prepared. You will have to modify your techniques if you are CCWing because retention is priority one, but you will learn to break holds and counter-them much faster in a full hands on "sport" martial art than a "kata/drill" only "martial art" where your partner is cooperating or only resisting in predetermined ways.

Does that help?
Again PM me if you want to discuss more.

 

[DFW1911]

Great Idea!

Styles or systems of martial arts can be (generally) classified into two categories, hard styles and soft styles.

Hard styles primary focus is meeting force with force. Think of a lot of punching and kicking: if someone punches at you, you punch back. Some of the styles in this category include Boxing, Kick Boxing, Muay Thai, and certain types of Karate. Practice in these styles is frequently called sparring.

Soft styles primary focus is meeting force with redirection of force. Think of a lot of grappling, throws, locks and chokes. If someone throws a punch at you, you may redirect their arm (force) and throw them. Some of the styles in this category include Aikido / (Japanese) Jiu Jitsu / and Judo. Practice in these styles (in the Japanese schools) is typically called randori.

Some arts may have "sport" versions: Judo is the "sport" version of Japanese Jiu-Jitsu; Muay Thai is considered a sport. Don't be fooled, however, even those considered sports are still very effective if the practitioner is good. A good Judo player or Muay Thai fighter is not a person to be taken lightly, as s/he's very dangerous indeed (provided they've had good instruction and spent some time earning their lumps, bumps, bruises, etc).

One could argue that the hard arts are considered more offensively based, the soft styles more defensively based. It is normal, though, to find that techniques overlap hard and soft styles.

Blending the two types is very common today. Many of the mixed martial art guys use Muay Thai and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to form a very strong base of what will be their MMA system. Some arts, such as Jeet Kune Do and Krav Maga (to a lesser degree), have blended the punching and kicking of hard arts with the throws, locks, and chokes of the soft arts.

When I was in my 20's (so over 20 years ago) I actively studied and competed in Muay Thai and Judo. The resulting personal style was, and still is, very effective in the real world. As I've aged, I've migrated more to the throwing, breaking, and choking associated with Aiki-Jitsu and (Japanese) Jiu-Jitsu and Judo vs. the punching and kicking of Muay Thai, boxing and American Kick Boxing.

Of the real fights I've been in, I've only ever used soft-style arts, which allowed me to be victorious. I guess when someone throws a punch at you they are not expect being thrown...and when they are they realize they have been thrown and are seeing stars they probably would have preferred to be punched. Being thrown by someone who knows what s/he is doing can be quite devastating indeed.

As a CHL I have a very strong need to use a system that will allow me to retain my firearm, holstered or not. My particular style does precisely that: if a person were to actually get his hands on my holstered weapon, he has inadvertently set himself up for a great throw / trip / reap / lock.

When selecting a school visit them several times; see if you can participate in several classes and pay particular attention to how they practice: is what they are doing mirroring what you want to learn? What I mean is this: the places I studied were very aggressive. Our practice looked a lot like an actual fight, minus the dirty tricks, of course. Other schools in the area were not quite so intense. In my opinion neither is better, just different strokes for different folks.

Finally, opinions on the study of any martial science is a Ford, Chevy, Dodge debate just waiting to happen. Be cautious as anyone touting their system as "the one true system" or anyone who derides another style just because it's different from theirs.

In response to your posting you'll hear from others, many of whom haven't studied, to "forget this" or "don't do this" or "concentrate on this" sort of stuff: take any such advice with a very big grain of salt!

I commend your decision to study any art. It takes discipline, time, and dedication, but the result will be worth the effort. Just as we study how to be the best we can with our firearms, you'll learn to do the same with your hands, feet, etc. The goal, ultimately, is the same: the hope that you'll never have to "use it" in the real world.

I hope this helps.

Regards,
DFW1911

PS: Feel free to PM me if you'd like any additional info or clarification.

 

[Mr_Rogers]

Lose the weight, tone the muscles, get supple - this can never do any harm.

Forget "defensive" skills. When you enter into any combat your attitude must be to win, by any means. You can no more have a defensive hand-to-hand fight than a defensive gunfight. If you try to moderate your force you will not use enough to ensure victory.

The techniques are amazingly simple, you already know them if someone just gives you a few pointers. What you need to develop is the commitment to use these simple techniques.

Edit.
By the way, forget the "empty hand" training. Chairs, 2x4s, baseball bats, it all counts if your life is threatened.

 

[RatDrall]

At the moment, I'm thinking of a considerable commitment of time; say, 3-4 days a week including sparring, etc. Can you guys recommend a school/discipline/regimen and give me a little info? Or perhaps recommend a good resource?

The most complete system I've ever seen have been the Fillipino syles that revolve around sticks and knives. The system of Kali that I trained in taught knife using Spyderco trainers, because why waste time training with a 8" training blade that has nothing to do with what you actually carry? We started with sticks, then learned knife, then learned empty hand. Every technique that we learned worked whether you were armed or not, so there was a lot of reinforcement.

Look here, http://www.fmatalk.com/ , you will be able to see if there are any schools in your area, and learn about them beforehand.

Here's why, in my opinion, the Fillipino styles work well (keep in mind that these are all generalizations, and that you will be able to find a style that will contradict this if you try, like with any style) :

- The Fillipinos fought wearing no armor, using light weapons that they tended to have on them at the time. Aside from large machetes this tends to be a knife worn on the hip. In modern day America we wear no armor and wear small knives. It transfers well. Focusing on a style that evolved a billion years ago for guys fighting in armor carrying spears and swords fighting other guys wearing rigid armor carrying spears and swords doesn't work as well.

- The Fillipino styles are fast and fluid. In a few months I went from being able to get two good hits per second to four or more. Learning to be fast and fluid can do amazing things. Fast also keeps you from getting cut. Many many people carry knives and might want to cut you. A slow, rigid art that only focuses on grappling or striking or whatever will lack the balance needed to deal with something like that. Which takes me to the next point...

- The Fillipino styles are balanced. You will be able to learn stick, knife, short sword, unarmed, grappling, chokes, breaks, disarms, strikes, elbows, knees, kicks...whatever works. Everything backs up everything else. Kind of like the movie dodgeball where the coach said "If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball" then proceeded to throw wrenches at people. Sticks hurt, and if you can deflect, pass or dodge a swinging piece of rattan you can deflect, pass or dodge a punch or kick or knife (eventually).

- The Fillipino styles don't seem to focus on self defense. Most of the schools are taught by real warriors, who are concerned about combat, not tournament champions who are only worried about scoring a point and following the rules. Self defense should be part of any art, but you need to know how to fight without waiting for the other guy to make the first move. Waiting can get you stabbed.

Forget "defensive" skills. When you enter into any combat your attitude must be to win, by any means. You can no more have a defensive hand-to-hand fight than a defensive gunfight. If you try to moderate your force you will not use enough to ensure victory.

That is great advice, most people have to lose a real fight, trying to only hurt the other guy a little bit, before they figure that out.

 

[Fred Fuller]

I carry a handgun daily

Then any fight you get into will be a gunfight, because you brought a gun to it. Your absolute primary consideration IMO has to be learning retention techniques to control your own weapon while in contact with an opponent, and learning gunfighting at contact distances. The best source I know of for that is Southnarc- see http://www.shivworks.com/tutorials.asp and look for the ECQC classes near you. You can see the course outline at http://www.shivworks.com/pdf/ECQC Course overview .pdf .

FWIW,

lpl

 

[Dr_2_B]

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful responses. I'm reviewing the stuff now.

Then any fight you get into will be a gunfight

Lee, I hear you, and that's a great point. Here's my thinking, though, and I'd like to hear your opinion. Say I am walking (wherever) and a large-ish 16 y.o. tries to do some sort of harm - even one of those ambiguous things that bad people sometimes do. That's a very nebulous scenario, but there are so many nebulous, ambiguous circumstances we find ourselves in. I'd like to be able to free myself and escape without having to resort to the handgun.

This is what I'm after.

BTW I'm reviewing those gun-retention sites now.

 

[tschmittel]

Krav maga. Google it and do some research. It might fit your needs.

 

[LightningJoe]

Then any fight you get into will be a gunfight, because you brought a gun to it.

That's why I use strong-side front pocket carry. Retention is excellent and you can do a bit of grappling with an unarmed (not yet known to be armed) person without starting a gunfight. If you're a woman or you're old or handicapped, that's one thing. But if you're a young man, you push the buttons of the thugs out there; they instinctively perceive you as a rival and strive to increase their status by defeating you. Unless you never get out of your car and never leave the ritzy part of town, you will encounter the thugs of this society and they will try to make you submit by force in order to gain status. They're usually unarmed but may be quite athletic and dangerous. Some people on this BB will recommend shooting every threatening person. That might work for women, the elderly, and the handicapped. But if you're a young man, shooting another young man may be a big problem, even if you had no compunctions otherwise.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

If you study brazilian Jiu-jutsu without learning take-downs it's not of much use. If you study that either learn Judo or wrestling or practice your takedowns.

 

[sherman123]

I have to disagree with those who say karate dojos and katas are useless. It completely depends on the dojo because many of them don't have real self defense as their top priority. A school that emphasizes fitness and competition is probably a bad choice. Katas are meant to be done very SLOWLY so that you can build muscle memory. This is like much of the dryfire practice I run through. Many people think you are supposed to breeze through katas at regular speed. This is partially because many old videos of karate masters doing katas were fast forwarded, giving many Americans the false impression that you're supposed to do katas fast. I'm definitely not saying katas are all you should do and I surely don't believe one style alone will cover everything. But katas are a very good part of empty hand training.

And btw, some of the most brutal training I've seen was in women's self defense classes I've watched. They've gone into detail about biting,eye gouging, kneeing in the jewels, etcc.. They actually put a technique to the biting and instructed on which teeth are best to use.

 

[mfcmb]

What to study will depend to a great extent upon what's available in your area. You want a good teacher and a good school. The exact art is less important. For any school that looks promising, go watch a number of classes by a number of teachers. See if the teachers treat the students with respect, are worthy of the respect of the students, and train in a safe and sane manner.

I'd avoid any place that requires contracts on one hand, or that promises results/ranks in specific time periods.

I'd avoid karate, taekwondo, etc. because punching/kicking/blocking is not what you'll need, and a lot of such schools concentrate on tournament technique, when what you'll want is street technique.

I'd avoid Aikido (at least initially) because it takes too long to be useful on the street. I'm a 2nd degree black belt in Aikido, and I love it, but it's not the place to start for your needs.

I'd look for a style that has grappling, groundwork, joint locks and pins. Maybe work with knives, yawara (short sticks, like ballpoint pens), and weapons of opportunity.

Most forms of jiu jitsu are likely to meet these qualifications. There might also be a good mixed-art, self defense school in your area. I'm most familiar with Japanese styles, so can't speak to Fillipino, etc. arts. Krav Maga is reputed to be an amalgamation of the best and most efficient self defense techniques, created by the Israeli self defense force, but if you do some research you'll find that there's no one school or style or lineage of the art, and it would be prudent to be very cautious when checking out anyone claiming to be a qualified teacher of that art.

3-4 days a week of training is the minimum needed to develop competency in an art. And as sherman123 says kata work is extremely valuable (albeit boring for instant-gratification-desiring Americans). The analogy to dry-fire practice is apt.

FWIW. Good luck.

 

[Mr_Rogers]

I mentioned in a older thread that I once had a job that involved entertaining business clients in one of cities of the World that had some pretty seedy sections. These parts of town were, of course, the parts that the visitors had heard about and where most of the visitors wanted to go.

No firearms allowed in this city so when providing these escort services my old leg wound would reappear. When needed I could produce a pretty realistic limp that made the walking stick I carried seem quite necessary.

 

[conw]

Great thread. I am a big believer in muscle mass and strength, although they aren't the first priority. I can help via PM with a nutrition/training program, for free, but that info is a little off-topic for strategies and tactics.

My advice is lose some fat and put on a ton of muscle and strength. Unlike some people say, it will not slow you down (until you get into pro bodybuilder range, if then) and it will certainly cushion your spine and organs against damage.

 

[jon_in_wv]

There are a few areas I'll disagree with you there and some I'll agree with.

Physical strength is good. BUT it has less to do with your ability to defend your self than skill and technique.

Size absolutely slows you down. I've fought enough to know that. The larger you are, the more mass you have to move. In my fighting prime I was fighting at 183 pounds. Even my weight made it much harder to move as fast as the smaller guys. Heavy weight lifting also increases muscle tone but without good discipline in your lifting it will start to limit your speed and flexibility. Also, fat is actually a better cushion for your organs and nervous system than muscle but muscle TONE and proper conditioning will do wonders to protect you from injury. I was lifting weights a lot last year and the more muscle I put on the stronger I got but it did nothing to make me a better fighter. I decided to go back to my older ways and concentrate on my fighting skills and conditioning. They will do me a world more than the weights. Case in point, last year when I was lifting my biceps measured 17 1/2 inches. Now they are already under 16. The strength I HAD is already gone bye bye. I haven't regularly trained in TKD for about 6 years now. I can still do a large amount of what I did then with just a little occasional practice. The weights took a huge commitment in time, diet, soreness, etc.....yet without constant upkeep the benefit disappeared.
I'm probably also biased by the fact the toughest guy I ever fought was and 19 year old kid that weighed 140 lbs. Most guys I fought were in the 200-280 lb range. This kid was the only person in 10 years of fighting to ever take me off my feet. He also hit harder than guys twice his size.
I believe you can make your self a better fighter several different ways. You can make yourself punch harder by doing 5000 pushups, or you can throw 5000 punches. One will make your arm stronger. The other will make your arm stronger, and make you a better puncher. If you have the time to combine that training you will do even better.

For a fighting style I can tell you this. Your INSTRUCTOR is much more important than the style. Find the best teacher, the one who understands fighting skills not sparring or tournament skills. Competition is a great way to hone your fighting skills but too many schools focus on winning tournaments. Their teaching becomes focused on winning matches instead of learning and honing the skills the martial art is teaching you. A good fighter will win competitions but not all winning competitors are good fighters.

 

[gripper]

Another plug for the Kali/Arnis guys(and gals!!),along with Muay Thai,Hapkido,old dirty boxing and wrestling....
Good conditioning,and a well rounded tool box is key.Like to stay on you feet and bang??Good!Now work on your clinch and ground game,if for no other reason than the escapes andknowing when NOT to get into the water with a shark( or on th eground with a serious BJJ guy.
If you can find a decent boxing gym AND find a way to train with wrestlers-ditto:you will have a well rounded skill set AND get a hell of a workout.

 

[YammyMonkey]

Lee, I hear you, and that's a great point. Here's my thinking, though, and I'd like to hear your opinion. Say I am walking (wherever) and a large-ish 16 y.o. tries to do some sort of harm - even one of those ambiguous things that bad people sometimes do. That's a very nebulous scenario, but there are so many nebulous, ambiguous circumstances we find ourselves in. I'd like to be able to free myself and escape without having to resort to the handgun.

This is what I'm after.

I think the point Lee was trying to make is that you have to consider the fact that you brought a gun along. If the attacker finds out you have a gun he’s probably going to go for it. At that point you’re in a deadly force encounter. Weapon retention & hand to hand fighting ability are critical for people who carry. There are very few times deadly force is warranted & I know Lee wasn’t encouraging anyone to shoot their way out of a fist fight.

As for what to study, I would try to find a combo gym that includes striking like Muy Thai or boxing with ground fighting like BJJ or wrestling. A lot of people pick either a standup form or a ground form & just assume that they’ll never go to the ground (wishful thinking) or that they’ll be able to take anyone to the ground (more realistic but I wouldn’t count on it).

 

[Joe Demko]

Before you get all het up on learning some particular style, make sure that there is a reputable, qualified instructor close enough to you to make attending classes regularly practical. Bartitsu may be the greatest fighting system in the world, but if the closest instructor to you is 3 days drive away, it doesn't do you much good, does it?
See what is near you. Observe a few classes and decide what will be the best fit for you from what is available. Beware of "black belt mills" and beware of schools where the instructor claims master status in multiple styles.

 

[jon_in_wv]

Right. What style is effected also by what you want to accomplish, your physical makeup, any physical limitations, and most importantly....who is the best guy teaching in your area. I trained in TKD for many years BUT I will be the first to say that a LOT of the instructors out there are just full of crap. I would rather you practiced another art than to take TKD from a snake oil salesman. Find a good instructor, sit in on a few classes, make an informed decision. Don't listen to what the instructor says he is, SEE what he is by watching him teach.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

I'd avoid any place that requires contracts on one hand, or that promises results/ranks in specific time periods.

Any school that focuses very heavily on belts should probably also be avoided.

As for strength, you absolutely need to work on that too. I can't tell you how many times I've lost because of strength.

 

[Joe Demko]

Here's an easy to spot warning sign: lots of kids with advanced rank. This typically indicates a school that focuses on testing for rank, testing frequently, and charging testing fees. This makes a tidy revenue stream for the instructor, who passes the kids along in rank whether they honestly deserve it or not. Such schools also typically have lots of undeserving adult black belts too. Sensei doesn't want anybody to quit and stop paying him, you see.

 

[Dr_2_B]

Anyone know of a resource (online perhaps) that rates these places for substance over glitz?

 

[JCisHe]

Dr,

I trained martial arts for 9 years. I started in Tang Su Do (Karate), switched to Isshin Ryu (Hard style Karate), and then switched over to training Pencak-Silat (Kali)/ Jiu-Jitsu (with Gi)/ Combat Submission Wrestling (Jiu-Jitsu without the Gi)/ Muy Thai (Kickboxing)/ Savate (French Kickboxing)/ Boxing individually at the same gym and sort of mixed them into a fighting style.

Of everything I trained before (the two Karate's) the mixture was by far the best. We trained each individual art for 1.5 hours 5 nights a week (about 6 hours a night) and sparred regularly (2-3 times a week). I did competitions in 3 of the 6 arts and succeeded every time in placing at least 2nd place. I say that because it would seem like you wouldn't be able to keep the arts separate but it was very easy. Each art has its own focus and discipline.

I'm out of shape now, too poor to train, and REALLY want to go back at some point but I'm still head and shoulders a better fighter than folks on the street.

You should find a school that has a reputation for turning out fighters that's close to you. Find out what arts they teach and take maybe two of them to start. Do something like Kickboxing and some art that has takedown/ground work.

You can't go wrong that way but be prepared for hard work.

Wish you the best and perhaps, if things go well for me (health - as I get older and money wise), we might meet in a ring?

Don't worry about internet ratings for gyms go visit them and train for free for a week. Most gyms will allow you to do that and do it at a few places before you make up your mind. Most Sifu's/Sensie's/Dan's/Arjun's, etc... are pretty good about that.

Regards...

 

[Fred Fuller]

Say I am walking (wherever) and a large-ish 16 y.o. tries to do some sort of harm - even one of those ambiguous things that bad people sometimes do. That's a very nebulous scenario, but there are so many nebulous, ambiguous circumstances we find ourselves in. I'd like to be able to free myself and escape without having to resort to the handgun.

First of all, keep in mind that you don't get buried any deeper if a 60-year-old kills you than you do if your presumed 16-year-old kills you. Dead is dead and either age can certainly get you there.

That said, your ability to not look like/act like a victim and to recognize the preliminary indicators of a crime ( http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/five_stages.html ) are your primary defenses. If you fail the victim selection process, then nothing further is necessary.

Before it becomes necessary to resort to acts, words should be your first option, given time and opportunity of course. See http://www.verbaljudo.com/ for another opportunity to learn skills that might prove useful in many areas of life. IMHO all armed citizens need to study and employ the ADEE model (avoid, de-escalate/disengage, escape, evade- see http://www.teddytactical.com/archive/MonthlyStudy/2006/02_StudyDay.htm ).

All that said, you need to realize that IMO carrying a gun pretty much precludes you from the dubious luxury of fisticuffs. You MUST break contact and open distance in any violent encounter no matter what sort of physical attack is directed at you. You simply have no choice IMO. The presence of the firearm you are carrying makes this so. Not to mention the uncertainties of what sort of weapon your assailant might suddenly produce and try using on you, or whatever reinforcements he might have waiting in the wings to join in the dance.

A concealed firearm can actually be a disadvantage in a genuinely bad situation. You can be in such close proximity to an assailant "when your awareness fails" as Southnarc puts it, that he easily discovers the presence of your weapon by contact, and if he does, gaining control of it will become his primary focus. And if he gains control of your weapon, he will most likely use it on you.

Your "empty hand" fight is no longer such. If you are going to carry a gun daily, as you say you do, it is imperative IMO that you be prepared to retain your weapon under any circumstances, that you know how to grapple and protect your firearm, that you know how to open distance enough to get your weapon into acton and be able to shoot while in contact with your opponent without shooting some part of your own anatomy in the process.

You and anyone else here can accuse me of being gun-centric if you like. I carry every day all day too, and that has a tendency to make me gun-centric. Yet I realize the absolute necessity of being prepared to deal with unanticipated bad situations at contact distance. I realize that any altercation I get into is a potentially lethal one, simply because I am carrying a lethal weapon- actually, more than one.

I am committed to avoiding, de-escalating, disengaging, escaping and evading such situations whenever possible. I would much prefer to use words rather than physical force to accomplish those things. And I realize that, if I cannot manage to accomplish those things, it is quite likely someone is going to get shot. Gun-centric? You can call it that if you like.

hth,

lpl

 

[conw]

Lee, that is one of the best posts I've ever seen on here. Thanks for the links too.

Now, as far as "weight train or not," again, it isn't the #1 priority. Jon, I get where you're coming from, but some anecdotes (your fighting perhaps not being affected by your strength/weight...the 140lb guy...) do not equal hard data.

There is a reason steroids are banned in fighting sports. They make a difference. Weight training versus not weight training makes more of a difference than taking steroids. You can/do become faster, stronger, more aggressive (higher testosterone levels), and more resilient. It's free, why not do it?