Empty Handed Training

[.38 Special]

This is my concern with BJJ, so many videos seem to start with 1-2 antagonists and then when it goes to ground, many rush in, usually with boots to the head. I can certainly see the advantages of BJJ in a one on one setting but any type of group would seem to negate the positives.

I really do believe that a fellow's training is incomplete if he does not have a good understanding of BJJ. A lot of fights seem to end up on the ground, so it's reasonable to learn how to deal with that - and lest anyone think I'm being smug, I am one of those fellows who has not done nearly enough groundwork. But I would strongly argue that learning BJJ as your one and only unarmed combat technique is a serious mistake.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

...learning BJJ as your one and only unarmed combat technique is a serious mistake.

That may be so, but it takes a lot of time and dedication (and expense) to master just one art. I can't imagine what it would take to master multiple. Even at my low level, short stint, of studying TKS and Hapkido at the same time kept me from excelling in either.

 

[.38 Special]

That may be so, but it takes a lot of time and dedication (and expense) to master just one art. I can't imagine what it would take to master multiple. Even at my low level, short stint, of studying TKS and Hapkido at the same time kept me from excelling in either.

Sure. But mastery isn't really what we're after. We just want to get good enough that we can beat the guys who go after us in a parking lot. If we only know stand-up, or only know ground, then we've given ourselves a serious handicap.

 

[tdbmd]

In general, my goal would be to get out of the situation but so many of the CCTV videos that I seem to see show very few "1 criminal" type situation these days. And rolling around on concrete or gravel with a firearm in your belt seems difficult. Not really saying that I have a better solution, just an observation. I guess the solution is if bad actors didn't exist but that is not reality...

 

[shafter]

That may be so, but it takes a lot of time and dedication (and expense) to master just one art. I can't imagine what it would take to master multiple. Even at my low level, short stint, of studying TKS and Hapkido at the same time kept me from excelling in either.

I'm a huge proponent of BJJ but one has to be well rounded. One doesn't have to be a master of all arts but rather a master of some components from several arts. Even as a white belt there are alot of submissions and escapes you will learn in BJJ that have no relevance to a street fight. Simply master the components that do apply, and worry about the other parts later. The same principle applies with strikes and kicks.

 

[Elkins45]

I think as my age and infirmities keep advancing I am rapidly moving to the far side of the curve where empty handed skills won’t do me any good. My knees are so painful and brittle now, plus the Covid fatigue I’ve never recovered from, that once someone takes me to the ground I probably only have 5-10 seconds of fight left in me. After that I’m either gassed or hurting too much to be effective. I’m afraid that if diplomacy fails my continuum of force now goes directly from pepper spray to lethal with nothing in-between.

Maybe I need some cane fighting training?

 

[.38 Special]

I think as my age and infirmities keep advancing I am rapidly moving to the far side of the curve where empty handed skills won’t do me any good. My knees are so painful and brittle now, plus the Covid fatigue I’ve never recovered from, that once someone takes me to the ground I probably only have 5-10 seconds of fight left in me. After that I’m either gassed or hurting too much to be effective. I’m afraid that if diplomacy fails my continuum of force now goes directly from pepper spray to lethal with nothing in-between.

Maybe I need some cane fighting training?

Maybe. But even something as simple as a hand on a face, and maybe a finger searching for an eyeball, can be the difference between winning and losing. Of course, such a "technique" seems so simple that you'd never need to train for it - but spend a few hours watching YouTube and you'll see endless examples of completely untrained people who freeze up and accomplish nothing in the face of a real fight. Practice - even in a handful of the most basic things - not only trains your muscles, but conditions your brain: rather than "Omigod what now?!?" it's "I thought this might happen, and now I'm going to do what I've been trained to do."

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

What martial arts training I have had, some brief attendance at a JKD school emphasized that the mind is the weapon, everything else is are just tools, implements. As one JKD instructor noted the purpose of Kali and similar school is to teach you to use anything-he cited a picture frame-as long you have the mindset-Jeff Cooper's Combat Mindset.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I’m afraid that if diplomacy fails my continuum of force now goes directly from pepper spray to lethal with nothing in-between.

Maybe I need some cane fighting training?

BTW, Hapkido does quite a bit of cane training.

 

[shafter]

Just a few thoughts on the cost of training. For 1800-2000 a year you are getting a skill that is far more likely to be of practical use to the average person. You can control physical conflict so you have a better chance of it escalating into something more serious.

On top of that you make some great new friends and social circle as well as an excellent workout.

That same money is what most of us probably spend a year on a couple of guns and ammo.

 

[roo_ster]

FTR: I have TKD, Okinawan karate, Japanese JJ, kickboxing, wrestling, Brazilian JJ, and cheesy US Army combatives experience. All a couple/few years a piece over a couple decades.

Were I a kid / young person just starting out, I would suggest (in this order):
1. Wrestling. No beter place to start, especially if in high school.
2. Boxing. _Moderate_ contact & sparring. No need to cultivate a speech impediment unless you go pro.
3. Whatever suits your fancy at this point. Don't forget to have fun. If you have serious MA objectives, choose your path carefully after this.

An adult would get other guidance.
1. A stand-up style or one that at least seeks to stay on your feet.
a. Even a wizard on the ground can easily get his skull stomped into the pavement by some 3rd party schmoe.
b. No BJJ joints I frequented or visited practiced takedowns much. ***, over?
c. The ancient art of running away is hard to do on the ground.
2. A gym/dojo/whatever that has adults-only classes.
3. A gym/dojo/whatever that allows/encourages _some_ contact. You don't have to leave counting your remaining teeth after each session, but there ought to be some consequence for not defending yourself adequately. The sting and the bell ring and the sucking for air are good teachers.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

2. A gym/dojo/whatever that has adults-only classes.

I'm finding this to be a near impossibility. It is the single largest impediment. As near as I can tell, with the possible exception of BJJ/MMA (which I don't really want to do), martial arts = day care. Every place I've checked into or visited considers 12-13 years of age "adult" for the purposes of training class. I've seen 7 year old girls balling their eyes out because they couldn't break the boards at their black best test. I've had to sit, idle, for 5-6 minutes at a time, 2-3 times in a 50 minute class while the instructor argues with a 10 year old who is only there because his dad forces him to be. Every class start 5-10 minutes late because it takes that long to get 12 year olds to stop chasing each other around the dojang. So, yeah. I've pretty much given up on martial arts. Which is too bad; it was great physical fitness. In between all the temper tantrums, crying, and grab-ass.