EX COP Gets 5 Years for Legally owned Guns in NJ

[backbencher]

I'm not so keen on a legal fund for someone that screwed their bail bondsman, & didn't show up in court for trial for a felony.

It sounds like he might have gotten a bad search thrown out, had he bothered to hire a lawyer & fight the charges.

 

[itsa pain]

I wonder how many times he did a search like that to some one else ? karma is a bitch. I bet he will not serve 5 years anyway

 

[HankR]

We could also have fun by all carrying obvious gun cases in our cars and drive through N.J. Eventually one of us would get stopped and searched, and we can embarrass them when they find an empty case.

Purposely distracting officers from performing their sworn duties...whether or not we agree with each one of them....doesn't seem like an efficient way of protest. I don't like people distracting me from my job for absolutely no good reason, and I think those in law enforcement would agree. Being a PITA doesn't always get your message across the way you intend it to.

Plus, once they pulled you over you'd probably be found guilty of transporting peanut oil within 1000 feet of an elementary school or of having a bad attitude in a happiness only zone or one of the myriads of similarly ridiculous sounding laws (real or imagined) that these nanny-state cesspools have on the books.

Apologies if I just provided some legislator in NJ, MD, MA, CN, or CA ideas for new and better laws.

 

[itsa pain]

I have about as much respect for the New Jersey gun laws as I have for the Virginia Racial Integrity and Sterlization Acts of 1924 through 1975. I personally hope to see the day those laws go the way of the Virginia Racial Integrity and Sterlization Acts, which abolished by 1969 SCOTUS ruling and by 1975 VA legislature repeal.

hey davek if "officers" were performimg their sworn duty to the constitution then we would not have an illegal search would we Mr I'm to important to be distracted oops wrong quote

 

[itsa pain]

I have about as much respect for the New Jersey gun laws as I have for the Virginia Racial Integrity and Sterlization Acts of 1924 through 1975. I personally hope to see the day those laws go the way of the Virginia Racial Integrity and Sterlization Acts, which abolished by 1969 SCOTUS ruling and by 1975 VA legislature repeal.

the same type of people that overthrew the laws above you did not like are the ones that are trying to take your guns away. utter failure to see that is why no one will be able to have a gun 40-50 years from now

 

[Midwest]

If I am carrying a bandsaw with a broken safety switch do I need to check with NJ law before driving through?

Well, there is that NJ bandsaw permit that is needed for transportation under the Machinists Protection Act of 1972 annotated Code 120v section 60 hz.



.

 

[herrwalther]

I have several family and friends who are truck drivers and it is a huge grey area. My uncle who namely traveled through SW Texas asked me for firearm advice (having never owned one ever) when things started getting a little hot south of the border. Because carry state laws aren't universally reciprocated, many companies make it against their trucking policy to be armed. Even if all the states you drive through honor your X state permit. And some companies tell their truckers to get an Airsoft gun and a baseball bat if they are going through not so nice towns.

 

[smalls]

I have several family and friends who are truck drivers and it is a huge grey area.

FOPA travel and carry permit reciprocity us actually pretty black and white. You're either legal, or you're not. He stopped to sleep, therefore was no longer protected by FOPA. And New Jersey has no reciprocity, therefore his carry permit was invalid while he was in that state. Pretty simple.

 

[Sam1911]

"Stopped to sleep" could actually be a grey area, if he didn't have much choice about it. Now that's arguable in NJ, which is a pretty small state, but in larger states having to overnight during a journey is a reasonable possibility. Stopping off to visit relatives and see the sights? No. Stopping to sleep? Maybe yes.

However, having a loaded gun with you is a definite NO. That doesn't meet the rules for transport laid out in FOPA. (Unloaded, secured, etc.)

Now, the question of whether full capacity magazines are covered in NY, or hollowpoint ammo in NJ has been another source of contention.

AND REMEMBER: FOPA is an "affirmative defense." After they arrest you and put you on trial, then you can try to establish that you were operating under the FOPA guidelines and then be acquitted. You can beat the rap, but not the ride.

 

[Sam1911]

Which brings us back to one of the disappointing aspects of this case.

If you don't show up for court, you can't present your affirmative defense. If you don't present it, it isn't going to present itself on your behalf! If no affirmative defense is claimed and sustained, then you're looking at a conviction.

 

[smalls]

Sam, has any stop actually been tested in court, and found to be ok in accordance to FOPA?

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Ex cop and military veteran and he doesn't show up for court??? He broke the law, got caught. As noted, the guns may have been legally owned, but the question wasn't one of ownership, but transportation. Of course, the hollowpoint ammo and high cap mags were not legally owned, in NJ.

I think the reason that they mentioned this man's military/police service is to highlight that a good guy is being convicted for carrying a gun. It makes a much better case for gun owners than if the guy had been a drug runner who hadn't yet been convicted of a crime. This case highlights how NOBODY has rights in some states!

Naw, it highlights how nobody is above the law.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Can we put together a legal fund for this guy? I think if we did it right and appealed to the federal courts and brought up the 4th amendment violation we might be able to get at least some of these laws overturned....

It would be throwing good money after bad. For a lot of reasons this would be a lousy test case. One reason is that the guy didn't even show up for his trial.

Another thing is that folks really need to read the actual New Jersey court decision. It clarifies a lot of important details omitted from or glossed over in the news article. For example, the court decision states (pages 5 to 6)

...Wester [first officer] again asked if there were any firearms in the SUV, and defendant again answered, "No." Wester testified, "Once I saw the firearms I didn't say anything about it. I didn't want to alert him. I immediately radioed for backup."

When a backup officer arrived, Wester confronted defendant about the cases on the backseat of the vehicle. Wester said he saw "a case in there that looks very, very similar to what I have in my house for my long arm, so I'm going to ask you again [are] there any firearms in the car." This time, defendant admitted he had "long arms that [he was] moving to Texas," which were registered in Texas. Defendant was ordered out of the vehicle and patted down for weapons, but none were found.

After two more officers arrived, Wester asked for consent to search the vehicle. Defendant denied consent. Wester asked how many firearms were in the vehicle, and defendant answered, "Three shotguns [and] an AR-15." Wester also asked if there were any handguns in the SUV. Defendant said he was "not sure," even though he acknowledged he had packed the vehicle.

Wester then opened the back door of defendant's SUV and removed the two nylon cases. Wester testified he did so "for safety reasons" and to make sure the firearms were being "transported in a safe manner." As Wester was examining the cases, defendant told another officer there were "approximately twelve firearms" in the vehicle, including "a loaded Glock handgun" behind the driver's seat....

Of course that comes from the officer's testimony at trial, but since Reininger decided not to attend, he wasn't around to challenge that testimony.

This was a very sad case. Reininger, as a former LEO should have understood that gun laws can vary considerably from State to State, that he would be subject to the laws of whatever State he was in, and that information on state gun laws is readily available from a number of sources.

 

[JohnBT]

Some people say he stuck a gun in his wife's face.

Some people say he was in the gun business.

http://behindthebluewall.blogspot.com/2009/03/me-ex-officer-reininger-is-in-news-for.html

I say he should have rented a room for the night.

 

[smalls]

... defendant admitted he had "long arms that [he was] moving to Texas," which were registered in Texas. ...

...huh?

 

[justice06rr]

why does it matter one iota that he was a former cop and veteran? The rules should and apparently do apply to most everyone, with a few exceptions.

It matters. What if the guy was instead a rapist, a felon, or a drug dealer? Vs a guy with a clean history and who is a Veteran and ex-cop.

It doesn't even seem like he broke the law, but was just caught by a LEO that had PC. The guy was transporting the firearms properly it seems, in a locked/encased container. Unfortunately SUV's don't have trunks; that was a problem for him.

Cases like these really tick me off. Give the guy a little break, or at least a lessen sentence I.E. Probation or Misdemeanor charge. He wasn't even doing anything illegal at the time of the search, he was merely resting while traveling between states....

 

[Sam1911]

It doesn't even seem like he broke the law,

Sure it does! First off, FOPA doesn't keep you from breaking the law, nor from being arrested and put on trial. It only gives you an answer ONCE YOU'RE AT TRIAL. You certainly are breaking the law to bring those guns into NJ, and the police are certainly within their rights to arrest you for that crime.

Second, FOPA doesn't cover what he was doing (loaded gun, and probably the hollowpoints).

...

Now, what says a former cop and veteran ISN'T a rapist, felon, and/or drug dealer? Plenty of former cops and plenty of veterans have serious rap sheets. Or what says that some other "law abiding" (except for breaking firearms laws!?) citizen should not be accorded the same "little break" as our hero here?

 

[HOOfan_1]

It matters. What if the guy was instead a rapist, a felon, or a drug dealer? Vs a guy with a clean history and who is a Veteran and ex-cop.

Now he is an ex-cop and a felon...so, no I would say it doesn't matter that he was an ex-cop

The guy was transporting the firearms properly it seems, in a locked/encased container.

He wasn't transporting them in accordance with the law

Cases like these really tick me off. Give the guy a little break, or at least a lessen sentence I.E. Probation or Misdemeanor charge.

This I agree with.

The laws are stupid...the laws are tyrannical. I don't care if he is an ex-cop, I don't care if he did everything else wrong. THE LAWS ARE WRONG. This guy may not deserve defending...but THE LAWS WITHOUT A DOUBT DO NOT DESERVE DEFENDING. Not on this message board....

 

[JohnBT]

"THE LAWS ARE WRONG."

The laws exist. Do you deny their existence? That's fantasy thinking.

 

[HOOfan_1]

"THE LAWS ARE WRONG."

The laws exist. Do you deny their existence? That's fantasy thinking.

Their existence somehow prevents them from being wrong?

Glad there have been people in human history who have stood against unfair laws.

Their "fantasy thinking" makes this country a better place....guess we need more "fantasy thinking" to make it better.

 

[Tomcat47]

NJ .... Always looking for someone to make an example out of! Unfortunately .... He got to be an example for not following the guidelines laid out plainly by states whether you like them or not.

I personally do not need a reason to NOT go to NJ ... I can invent a reason at the drop of a hat, if I had family there I would require they visit me, that I do not travel in socialist states anymore!

These states like this are what they are down to the gov. and law enforcement!

Face it, they HATE the 2nd amendment and anyone who wants a firearm other than there gustapo that enforce there laws on obviously known upstanding Americans and fellow LEO...

Sad ... just plain sad that there are these anti states in this country. Hope we can keep our hold and bring it back!

 

[rooter]

We could also have fun by all carrying obvious gun cases in our cars and drive through N.J. Eventually one of us would get stopped and searched, and we can embarrass them when they find an empty case.

They wouldn't find an empty case in my car if I were rolling through NJ.

Some seem to have a personal bias toward LEO's here. Whether you think being a veteran or ex-leo means anything about character, it has nothing to do with the real issue here. We know little about this guy, so perhaps we should let it go.

Also, some are commenting about this guy not making it to a hearing or mounting a proper defense. Again, we know little about this guy and even less about his financial position or health. Perhaps he has a very good reason for his actions. We just don't know enough to be passing judgment or going on tangents.

 

[PedalBiker]

In California a magazine with cartridges in it is a "loaded gun". You could have your gun in the trunk and a loaded magazine in the engine compartment and still have a "loaded gun".

I have to travel for work, it sucks, but it pays the bills. States like New Jersey are the exact reason that the interstate commerce clause was put in the Constitution - to prevent highway robbery of travelers.

Too bad our current system is so corrupted it doesn't work anymore.

 

[justice06rr]

Now, what says a former cop and veteran ISN'T a rapist, felon, and/or drug dealer? Plenty of former cops and plenty of veterans have serious rap sheets. Or what says that some other "law abiding" (except for breaking firearms laws!?) citizen should not be accorded the same "little break" as our hero here?

Of course there are always bad apples in the bunch. You are kinda generalizing there. We are talking about one particular individual who was an ex-cop and a Vet. Whether he is actually an undiscovered criminal or convicted-felon I have no idea.

I would agree he did make a mistake by not properly following laws on transporting firearms. The part I hate is that why can't laws regarding transporting firearms be universal in CONUS? It really complicates things.

On a side note, consider that in "free states" like FL and TX we can obtain high-cap mags and Military-type rifles (AR/AK) with no restrictions vs. CA and NY. That is one reason why I will not live in those states.

Wouldn't you think that those laws in CA and NY are wrong?? Don't they infringe on your 2A rights?

 

[Davek1977]

justice06rr said:

It matters

Tim McVeigh was a veteran. Officer Dan Harless was a cop for Canton, OH. I don't believe either would qualify as a good person. Vets and cops come in all shapes, sizes, colors, sexes, and degrees of "goodness". It doesn't matter, because, in this case, it had no real bearing. He violated the law...whether we agree with said law or not....by having a loaded gun in his possession. He also lied to the cops, didn't bother showing up for court, etc. A lot of people call those sorts of people deadbeats and scumbags, not "good people". His previous employment is of little concern to me, and agree that it was only mentioned to create a somewhat of a positive bias towards this man and against this arrest. To me, it makes no difference whatsoever....I don't live under the illusion that prior service makes one a role model of a citizen in every case. I prefer to live in reality, where its been proven time and again cops and vets break the law just like anyone else on a regiular basis....as such, they don't deserve any special treatment or protections, IMO, beyond what anyone else can get or is eligible for.