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EX COP Gets 5 Years for Legally owned Guns in NJ

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Midwest, May 29, 2013.

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  1. itsa pain

    itsa pain member

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    yea that's a great synopsis. let us have the police stop everybody every day from kindergarten to 90 years old. put everyone in jail hooray no more crime!! I went thru 3 roadblocks after ten PM on the "holiday" weekend driving back home from my girlfriends house. this is getting out of control and you can only push people so far
     
  2. Mousegun

    Mousegun Member

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    As a former resident of N.J. and subject to its archaic laws, I can say that I feel for this guy and although he did in fact, break the law, there are just some times that things should and could be put aside.

    His former and later actions do pull my emotions in the opposite direction though.

    If I was a LEO involved in this incident, I may have spanked him and sent him on his way with a very stern warning.

    Police can and do give warnings for law breakers. Eg: Speeding.

    Now in this case we are qualifying the offense and apparently giving it a "A" rating but it is an offense that IMHO is anti-Consitutional in many ways.

    In theory, when I packed up the rental truck and had my guns separated from ammo and locked as I was moving out of that Commie state 12 years ago, I may have been breaking the law because I was not transporting my guns to a legal range to shoot or taking the shortest way or taking then to a gunsmith and I may not have been following any one of the restrictive guidelines of firearm transportation in that state. I don't know if they have a get out law that lets you escape with firearms when moving.

    As I crossed over the bridge into P.A. I raise my hand and displayed a digit. Now when I go back (only because I have to to visit my daughter) I fully expect to be stopped due to my Tennessee plates. I travel naked with all guns locked up at home but the boys don't know that and I feel like a potential target for a full search.

    Even though there is active groups in N. J. that fight a never ending battle for truth, justice and the American way when it comes to firearms, it has been a never ending looser (for the most part).
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2013
  3. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    "those are some idiotic laws"

    Does NJ still prohibit pumping your own gas? :banghead:

    I used to go to Atlantic City with some regularity. I usually took the 45-minute junket flights from Richmond, but sometimes I drove. I believe in employing the homeless and stuff, but geez, please don't touch my car. :)
     
  4. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator Staff Member

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    Nail head meet alsaqr's hammer. A pretty much perfect overview. Reininger did pretty much everything he could to bolix things up.
     
  5. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    I see this case as another one of those where the perp tries to get media/public attention to himself in an effort to sway public opinion, when in actuality, he really doesn't come across as a good guy.

    Had it been an FBI agent he lied to, well, just lying to them is a crime.

    So, let's recap:
    Broke the no stopping on through trip law.

    Lied to cops.

    Has a possible domestic violence case which may be why he's no longer a police officer.

    Not a retired or active LEO, so no HR218/LEOSA free pass on the loaded pistol in a restricted state.

    Skips bail on trial.

    Sorry, but as a retired LEO I'm not developing much sympathy for this guy. You can yell all you want about unfair gun laws, but this has more to do with this guy's personal actions than the state laws.

    Do I think the sentence was unusually harsh? Yes I do, but skipping out on trial, he may again have brought that on himself.
     
  6. itsa pain

    itsa pain member

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    yea he should be executed. most people that preach fire and brimstone the hang em high types turn into ACLU lawyers if one of their kids gets arrested. cops lie all the time when they execute some one. look at the college girl that was shot in the head by police using the method you must destroy the victim in order to save her
     
  7. backbencher

    backbencher Member

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    This thread is indicating it has a 5th page, but it won't let me see it. Anyone else having this issue?
     
  8. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    That seems to happen every once in awhile. If you can see 99 posts (oops, 100 with mine) you've got the whole thing.
     
  9. BigBoyToyz

    BigBoyToyz Member

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    Normally I have no doubt the cops would have let the other ex cop go with a warning, but when they ran the plate/id it pulled up his past history (threatening wife with a gun) and they were probably unsure of his intentions knowing he knew to carry them unloaded in the trunk unless licensed.

    Now owning alot of guns does make it tiresome to remove all the ammo, and carrying them in the trunk does hurt myself when I think that the expensive items may bump around and be in the non temperature controlled part of the car, but I still take them apart myself to keep it legal.

    Regardless, if I was the arresting officer, I would have just asked him to put them in the trunk and then 'confiscated' all the illegal hollow points and let him go.
     
  10. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    i saw on another site the allegation he made his living with guns. how did he do that with the domestic violence charge?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2
     
  11. justice06rr

    justice06rr Member

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    I think you are taking it a little to the extreme there.

    Mass murder does not compare to a non-violent infraction whether you are a Vet/LEO or not.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2013
  12. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Member

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    I'll tread lightly in answering this question, and provide two points to consider:

    1) My oath of office is, first and foremost, to support and defend the constitution of the United States, then to enforce the laws of my state and municipality. While argument points made by others about police officers not being constitutional scholars is true, we also have a duty to enforce the law as best we can within our reasonable understanding of the constitution (the courts are there later, to debate whether our decisions on the street were right or wrong). I tend to tread carefully on constitutional issues, whether that means gun rights, rights to freedom of assembly, or protections against searches and seizures. If I feel that I'm treading on dangerous ground when it comes to the preservation of someone's rights, I'll typically take the cautious approach.

    2) Discretion is, and always has been, an important element of law enforcement. Despite what some people claim, no one would truly want to live in a society where every law was rigidly enforced without exception. Discretion on a part of an officer generally works best when that discretion is applied with consistency. Discretion gets negative press when officers begin to inconsistently apply discretion to cases they're investigating (like letting the cute girl off from a speeding ticket while writing one to the nerdy guy, etc).

    Let me give a simple example from my own practices that might demonstrate consistent application of officer discretion: If I stop someone for a traffic violation and they don't have proof of current and valid insurance I'm well within my rights to write them a ticket, regardless of anything else. However, it is my general practice to let this violation slide IF the person has left me reasonably convinced that they have insurance. This circumstantial proof may come in a variety of ways: a person might provide me with 6 years worth of expired insurance cards, including one that expired within the past couple of weeks, or maybe my clearance on the vehicle reveals an "insured" return on my MDT (which despite not being totally reliable, might sway me enough to let that violation slide). But, the key to this discretion is that it is consistent in the sense that I'll either write or warn based on a similar set of circumstances.

    Anyway, back to a more direct discussion of this topic, all of this can be applied to other investigations, too. I generally choose to direct my efforts toward the suppression of violent crime, and serious offenses against property (burglaries, etc). Some officers like to primarily enforce traffic laws, and others are hell-bent on chasing narcotics all day. Some guys just like responding to their radio calls and doing whatever the call load dictates. Personally, without some indication that a person carrying a gun is involved in other types of criminal activity, I really have no particular interest in pursuing those individuals for the sake of enforcing statutes that have no direct benefit in the suppression of actual crime (after all, guns don't cause crime, people do)... I guess you could say that I like to focus my efforts on crimes that have victims, or are likely to produce victims.

    Now, I'll say that as this thread has evolved further it appears that this convicted individual's reputation is looking less and less shiny. So, please take my points in more of a philosophical sense than anything else. I can't speak to the actual particulars of this exact situation.

    All I'm really saying is that I wouldn't have searched the car merely because I saw a rifle case in the back seat. The courts have (thus far) upheld the officers decision to search this guy's vehicle on the basis of the "plain view" warrant exception, and I won't sit hear and try to argue that point either way. But, I still wouldn't have seen any reason to search the vehicle in the first place on the mere basis of seeing a rifle case. As such, I wouldn't have discovered that this guy's gun was loaded, or determined whether or not it contained "prohibited ammo". Why is it that I feel that way? Well, simply because I don't believe that the presence of a gun case (in the absence of other indicators of crime) gives me a reason to believe that the person who possesses that case is involved in criminal activity. Frankly, in my career I've generally found that the criminals who are armed are the least likely folks to be carrying their weapons in a case!

    Again, your milage may vary.
     
  13. leprechaun50

    leprechaun50 Member

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    Coloradokevin, thanks for answering my question. I agree with your thoughts on officer discretion, when applied equally to all.
     
  14. smalls

    smalls Member

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    Does anyone know if he was convicted of that domestic violence? Seems if they saw that on his record they had pretty good probable cause to search the car once they saw the rifle cases.
     
  15. Davek1977

    Davek1977 Member

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    Justice06rr, I wasn't saying the offenses were equal, just that the assumption someone is a "good person" because of a job they once held is a flawed premise in every way as far as I'm concerned, and I provided examples of such. I don't think I ever said "This man is equal to Tim McVeigh" only that prior service, be it military or police, is hardly a guarantee that someone is a good person. I think such a premise is rather silly considering the numbers of both that have been accused and convicted of violent crimes. Is that really a hard thing to agree with? Poeple are individuals to me..once we start prejudign people based on things like profession (current or poast) race, religion, or anything else, we've potentially lost some situational awareness. When you let your guard down based on preconceived ideas of what a person is likely to be like, you've lost an advantage. Treat everyone as a threat until they've proven otherwise. When this guy lied about having guns...lied about the number of guns...lied about guns being loaded....he lost trust instantly. Like many in law enforcement like to say "If I ask you something, be honest, because I already know the answer." Most cops can spot a liar, and its obvious they did in this case as well. If I were an officer in that position, any discretion I may have goes out the window if you're going to be less than forthcoming about things. My parents thought the same way....honesty went a long ways in determining a punishment. If i manned up about my indiscretions, I was usually subjected to less than if I'd try to pull a fast one and lie to them. When you are parked at a bank, with several guns, at least one of them loaded, and you lie to me right off the bat, I don't care if you are the Pope, you've aroused my suspicion, and chances are, you aren't walking away with just pat on the back and a suggestion not to do it again.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
  16. BSA1

    BSA1 member

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    Davek1977,

    Or maybe you could just keep you mouth shut and not answer the officer's questions thus avoiding either lying and/or self-incrimination.
     
  17. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    No conviction, but that doesn't mean his arrest wasn't on his record. In fact, they probably knew that at the time of the arrest or soon thereafter.
     
  18. justice06rr

    justice06rr Member

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    Davek, I understand your points. But also consider that in turn, many cops are dishonest and corrupt. The door swings both ways...

    As a law abiding citizen, I have been targeted many times merely because of my race, type of car, even color of the vehicle. I won't even get into motorcycles because some police are just completely biased against motorcyclists. My previous roomate and good friend is also a Deputy; I've heard all his stories about untrained officers and unprofessional conduct within the force.

    But I digress. Let us hope justice is served in the original post. Not for any of us to decide, but the courts.
     
  19. mordechaianiliewicz

    mordechaianiliewicz Member

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    It occurs to me, if you own a gun, just don't take it into those states. If you are in those states, moving to another one, follow FOPA. Now, personally, I hate this. I think that the cop who didn't just ignore it is a piece of... sheep dung.

    I hate that NJ decided that this law has to exist, and have similar feelings regarding the legislators who signed on to the laws making armed self-defense illegal.

    But, we cannot ignore the law without consequences. And we must be prepared to accept those consequences when we break laws we don't like.

    That being said, I basically think that NJ cop crapped all over his oath the moment he decided to not ignore this guy's pistol.
     
  20. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    Yep, that awful NJ cop should have ignored his oath to uphold the law and given a pass to a guy from out of state who was napping behind a bank at 0 dark hundred in the a.m. Never mind he had a car full of guns; one of which was loaded.
     
  21. wolf695

    wolf695 Member

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    He may be a good man ,or me many not! I know a handful of officers that have things they shouldnt. crime is everywhere, thats a fact! not everyone is who they claim to me, and no one is above the law.
     
  22. jon_in_wv

    jon_in_wv Member

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    I agree with sentiment but I'll take it a little further. It ALSO applies to the officers involved in the arrest. Its easy to say, "he broke the law" and to dismiss him but I think how we enforce the laws is equally important. When officers trample all over the fourth amendment rights of a person to get the arrest THEY are the ones who are suddenly immune from the law. I think everyone can agree the guy broke the law but HOW they caught him is the issue to me. I don't think he should walk because he was right in what he did, he should walk because in this case the officers and the courts are WRONG. You can't break the law to enforce it. Period.
     
  23. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    +1

    Well, the courts heard and saw the actual evidence. I would be inclined to believe that they are correct in their understanding of what happened and whether or not it was illegal. This has gone to court and then was rejected by the appellate court of 3 judges. So that would have the cops being wrong, the first court being wrong, and the second court being wrong. I doubt it. Instead, it appears that the arresting cops were held to the same standard multiple times and passed.
     
  24. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    Having a loaded handgun in your car in NJ is a felony, and anyone with any firearms literacy knows it.

    Having a loaded handgun along with a pile of rifle cases in your car in NJ is just plain stupid.

    Pulling into anyplace to sleep with all of that clearly visible to someone looking into the car is just really past any reasonable sense of anything. It's like hanging an "arrest me" sign around your neck.


    Truly, if he had not had the loaded handgun in the car he would likely have been let go. If he had used common sense and gotten a motel, and/or covered the cases with a blanket, he would probably have been left alone.


    Willie


    .
     
  25. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    Doing a no show for court is consistent with his behavior pattern

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2
     
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