Explain trigger safety features
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average_shooter
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The "safety" on a Glock trigger is something like 8-10% of the total trigger surface area. Without that lever being actuated the trigger is physically blocked from moving to the rear.
You can see how it works by taking a verified unloaded Glock (or similar) and trying to depress the trigger by the sides.
By centering the bar, the odds are that the trigger "safety" will not be depressed unless by an actual finger intentionally pressing the trigger, as opposed to say the trigger snagging on clothing or a tight holster, etc.
You can see how it works by taking a verified unloaded Glock (or similar) and trying to depress the trigger by the sides.
By centering the bar, the odds are that the trigger "safety" will not be depressed unless by an actual finger intentionally pressing the trigger, as opposed to say the trigger snagging on clothing or a tight holster, etc.
average_shooter
Member
I mean, I suppose you could remove it. But then what would you have?
Really, there's no reason to knock it. Glocks and similar autos essentially operate the same way revolvers have for over a century.
It got passed as a safety probably because it works. Unless there's even pressure across the face of the trigger it will be exceedingly difficult to pull the trigger to the rear and fire the weapon.
Really, there's no reason to knock it. Glocks and similar autos essentially operate the same way revolvers have for over a century.
It got passed as a safety probably because it works. Unless there's even pressure across the face of the trigger it will be exceedingly difficult to pull the trigger to the rear and fire the weapon.
REAPER4206969
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It prevents the weapon from firing due to inertia when dropped on its rear from excessive heights. Simply put, its a drop safety. That's why Ruger added it to the SR9.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
Preventing objects other than your finger from pulling the trigger is secondary and incidental to being a "drop" safety. In fact, objects other than one's finger have been known - although the accounts are apocryphal - to pull Glock triggers.
Jed Carter
Member
Nothing is idiot proof, idiots are too resourceful. It is ok to have various safety features on a firearm, it is not ok to trust them. Do these safeties work? Yes...most of the time. I don't usually let my dog use my pistols, but then again I'm not home much of the time.
So you claim to have actually witnessed this? I read about it, as I'm sure most of us have.
This.
All the safety features of a Glock, they're only there to ensure the gun can never fire unless the trigger is pulled. No matter if any or every part in the gun failed simultaneously at rest, or if dropped from a cliff with at least the FP safety working, the gun would still not go off.
The safeties on your 1911 are there to prevent the gun from firing WHEN the trigger is pulled. Completely different purpose.
The Glock is a race horse that must be backed (not raced) into the stable. The safety is off whenever it's out of the holster. The safety is back on when it's properly returned to the holster. No holster? Leave the chamber empty. And before you let your dog play with it, you should teach him proper gun safety.
Every time someone shoots themselves (or their bedroom wall) with a 1911 because of user error, do you blame the gun?BTW, your favorite gun, the 1911, is one of very few currently produced centerfire handguns which has no firing pin safety, whatsoever.* It's also one of the only semiauto handguns in production with a hammer but no hammer block. As much as people love their frame mounted safety that goes down for fire, it doesn't block the freaking hammer. So what's left? The beavertail safety prevents the trigger from being pulled. Manual safety prevents the sear from moving. There's no block between the hammer and firing pin. And there's no block between the firing pin and the primer. This is like setting up a bunch of dominos and blocking the first two from falling, while leaving nothing between the last two dominos and the detonator. Mechanical failure and/or a drop can cause that last domino to fall. At least the user has control over a drawstring during reholstering.
*Some have a trigger or beavertail activated FP safety, but many - perhaps most - do not, including many of the $1000 and up semicustoms. The FP safety "ruins" the trigger pull.
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The Lone Haranguer
Member
This is one of those stories I referred to, and why I will not wear any garment with drawstrings. But, this could probably have been avoided by paying attention. If any resistance is felt while holstering your gun, STOP. And where feasible, you should also look.
You should also not point the gun at yourself at any time you handle your handgun, including while reholstering.
True, some people CC in a way that the gun points at themselves and/or others. But if that's the case, you should be reholstering with great care and your full attention. There's no explanation for accidentally pulling the trigger of a gun other than incompetence.
True, some people CC in a way that the gun points at themselves and/or others. But if that's the case, you should be reholstering with great care and your full attention. There's no explanation for accidentally pulling the trigger of a gun other than incompetence.
ColtPythonElite
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Lots of duty holsters angle the gun right at the wearers thigh...
I had a gunsmith ruin a Series 70 LW Combat Commander. I had some work done on it and (I was younger and dumber then) asked for a trigger job. I thought it would just smooth it out, but reduced the pull to 3 1/4 lb. I had racked a round into the chamber, took out the magazine, and without engaging the safety (remember I was younger and dumber then), slammed the magazine back in and the hammer dropped and it fired.
Luckily, I wasn't so dumb as to have the gun pointed in an unsafe direction so no harm done. Scared the living crap out of me. So, now it sits in my safe. I take it to the range from time to time, but it also has a small crack in the frame so I don't shoot it much and when I do I'm very careful.
Luckily, I wasn't so dumb as to have the gun pointed in an unsafe direction so no harm done. Scared the living crap out of me. So, now it sits in my safe. I take it to the range from time to time, but it also has a small crack in the frame so I don't shoot it much and when I do I'm very careful.
swinokur
Member
No one mentioned the half cock notch on a 1911. It is specifically there to prevent the hammer from falling in the event of a sear failure. In the original JMB patent drawings, it was also intended as a safety. After the Army requested the thumb safety be added, the half cock notch did not make it into the MOA. For immediate deployment, the MOA states Condition 1. All other times, Condition 3.
Zerodefect
member
+1
It's a drop safety only. It became a safety, or "safe action trigger", by poor marketing and internet rumor.
A safety can't be on the trigger as that would violate one of the golden fire arm safety rules.
swinokur
Member
That's probably why Glock markets theirs as the "Safe Action System". They can't be accused of misleading consumers.
My manual refers to it as the safe-action trigger system, and specifically refers to the thing on the trigger as "trigger safety," which is a joke. It's like saying you can't pull the trigger unless you pull the trigger.
There are essentially two ways to accidentally or negligently discharge a semi-automatic pistol--------1) inadvertently drop it, or 2) inadvertently make contact with the trigger.
Glock protects against the first, but offers no protection against the second.
There are essentially two ways to accidentally or negligently discharge a semi-automatic pistol--------1) inadvertently drop it, or 2) inadvertently make contact with the trigger.
Glock protects against the first, but offers no protection against the second.
COLOSHOOTR
Member
With the exeption of series 80 or newer Colts and a few of the other models out there that do have a firing pin block safety system.So you claim to have actually witnessed this? I read about it, as I'm sure most of us have.
This.
All the safety features of a Glock, they're only there to ensure the gun can never fire unless the trigger is pulled. No matter if any or every part in the gun failed simultaneously at rest, or if dropped from a cliff with at least the FP safety working, the gun would still not go off.
The safeties on your 1911 are there to prevent the gun from firing WHEN the trigger is pulled. Completely different purpose.
The Glock is a race horse that must be backed (not raced) into the stable. The safety is off whenever it's out of the holster. The safety is back on when it's properly returned to the holster. No holster? Leave the chamber empty. And before you let your dog play with it, you should teach him proper gun safety.
BTW, your favorite gun, the 1911, is one of very few currently produced centerfire handguns which has no firing pin safety, whatsoever.* It's also one of the only semiauto handguns in production with a hammer but no hammer block. As much as people love their frame mounted safety that goes down for fire, it doesn't block the freaking hammer. So what's left? The beavertail safety prevents the trigger from being pulled. Manual safety prevents the sear from moving. There's no block between the hammer and firing pin. And there's no block between the firing pin and the primer. This is like setting up a bunch of dominos and blocking the first two from falling, while leaving nothing between the last two dominos and the detonator. Mechanical failure and/or a drop can cause that last domino to fall. At least the user has control over a drawstring during reholstering.
*Some have a trigger or beavertail activated FP safety, but many - perhaps most - do not, including many of the $1000 and up semicustoms. The FP safety "ruins" the trigger pull.
I've heard stories of many 1911's going off after being dropped or tossed. One was about a police chief that carelessly tossed one into a desk drawer and got an unexpected bang. Funny how stuff like that happens but only Glocks and similar weapons seem to be seen as dangerous because the lack of a manual safety.
Another interesting thing about manual safeties is when the stuff starts to fly and shooters are under stress a lot of people forget to put the safety back on and stick a ticking time bomb (especially with pre series 80 1911's) into their holster just waiting for a good bump to set them off.... Atleast I know when I holster up my Glock or M&P with no manual safeties are not going to go bang when I forget to hit the safety and I bump my holster.
With ANY WEAPON keep your booger hook out of the trigger guard and make sure you clear any objects that might snag the trigger then it won't go bang!
The trigger safety keeps forces other then a direct rearward pull from activating the trigger. That keeps the trigger from moving in the event something brushes it without depressing the lever and giving full rearward pressure.
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The half cock notch is engaged by the sear... so if the sear fails, then the half cock notch isn't going to be very useful. See fmcdave's post #15. Notice that in the event of a sear failure, the beavertail safety, manual safety, and half cock notch are all bypassed. The gun fires without the trigger being pulled. Even if the beavertail safety hadn't been engaged that wouldn't have mattered (unless it had a Schwartz beavertail safety). And all the manual safety does is to lock the sear in place... so if the sear fails to securely engage, the manually safety doesn't necessarily solve the problem - and it only helps when it's on! One may drop or jar the gun while the manual safety is off!
My Ruger MkIII has the same type of manual safety - sear block, only. I trust it, enough. But not enough to leave a round chambered when I'm not shooting it.
I think the half cock notch's main purpose is to prevent the gun from going off if your thumb slips while cocking the hammer (for condition 3 carry).
Bottom line: trigger safeties are important. Even if you want a manual safety, the passive trigger safeties should be there.
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JTQ
Member
Quite possibly a typo here, but if your thumb slips off the hammer of a 1911 while in Condition 3 (or going to Condition 3) the pistol will not fire.
swinokur
Member
A sear failure may only involve the first notch. In this case the half cock notch would be useful/ I agree in the event of a total sear failure, the half cock notch would not help. I also agfree the safety is your brain absent a mechanical failure.
My feeling is the gun manufacturers obligation is to make sure the weapon functions as intended. The rest is up to the shooter. A car can go 100 MPH. It's up to th e operator to insure it doesn't
Some level of personal responsibility has to be assumed IMO.
My feeling is the gun manufacturers obligation is to make sure the weapon functions as intended. The rest is up to the shooter. A car can go 100 MPH. It's up to th e operator to insure it doesn't
Some level of personal responsibility has to be assumed IMO.
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