Quantcast

FFL for building AR

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Colt107, Feb 19, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Colt107

    Colt107 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2020
    Messages:
    3
    Hey everyone new here. So been doing a lot of research and I can’t find this answer anywhere so hopefully you guys can help me out. I’m currently getting ready to get an 07 FFL to sell guns obviously, and to build custom AR15 for clients and sell them. What I am curious about is will my 07 FFL allow me to assemble and sell them, or do I as well need a gunsmith certificate? Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Kp321

    Kp321 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,305
    Location:
    West Texas
    Do your research. An 01 license is dealer/ gunsmith, 07 is firearm manufacturer. There are all types of ins and outs on what you can and cannot do with either license, determined by the attitude of the officer auditing your operation. I guarantee each officer will have his own interpretation of the rules. An 07 license also opens the door to ITAR rules. I operated a Gunsmith shop for 40 years with an 01 license only. I “built” a few AR’s along the way, always on the customers stripped lower. The last interpretation of the law was, if you supply the lower, you are building a rifle. If you put parts into a customers lower, you are repairing it.
    Please don’t go strictly on my experience, talk with your local ATF office. Like I said, every officer seems to read the laws differently.
     
    earlthegoat2 likes this.
  3. RickD427

    RickD427 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2010
    Messages:
    123
    Location:
    King County
    Please see the Fourth Circuit's decision in Broughman v Carver. It gives a very complete analysis to the differences between an FFL01 and FFL07 with regard to the assembly of firearms from component parts.
     
    herrwalther and boom boom like this.
  4. Colt107

    Colt107 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2020
    Messages:
    3
    I have done the research and most lowers will be supplied by myself and not customer, in this case it would count as manufacturing for that. What I am asking though is do I also need a gunsmith certificate to do these things as well, or if the FFL is all I needed for it. But I am certain for what I want to do at minimum I will need the 07 FFL.
     
  5. boom boom
    • Contributing Member

    boom boom Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    4,466
    Location:
    GA
    Since you are planning on doing this for a living, get adequate legal advice from a firearms law expert. It is a deductible business expense in that case and make sure that you also set your company up as some sort of LLC or other corporate form. Firearms manufacturing would be in the class of high liability both civil and legal so get good legal advice from a lawyer(s) in your state.
     
  6. BSA1

    BSA1 member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    7,494
    Location:
    West of the Big Muddy, East of the Rockies and Nor
    Definitely get help from a lawyer with setting up your business. Since you are going to be manufacturing the guns you hope to sell buy a LOT of insurance. A wrongful death or grievous injury lawsuit could cost you multi-millions of $$,$$$,$$$.00.

    Training from a reputable gunsmith school along with taking college/ technical classes in metal work and welding would be a big plus. A sharp lawyer could make your lack of formal education and training look like you are a graduate of “Bubba’s Hold my Beer and Watch This” school of learning.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
    boom boom likes this.
  7. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    5,434
    Location:
    Plano, Texas
    :scrutiny: Really?
    How much research have you done at atf.gov?



    Of course, that why its called an "07- Manufacturer of Firearms Other than Destructive Devices"

    No such thing.
     
  8. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    5,434
    Location:
    Plano, Texas
    1. "officers" don't do compliance inspections, audits or inspections. That for the IOI (Industry Operations Investigators) ................beancounters.
    2. "Attitude"? They'll show the licensee the appropriate citation from the CFR/ATF regs.
    3. What you can and cannot do is clearly spelled out at ATF.gov. An IOI's attitude has nothing to do with anything.



    IOI's are not allowed to interpret the rules.



    Only until March 9th.:D

    Correct.



    Never.
    ALWAYS........read the regs yourself at ATF.gov
    The verbal advice from an IOI is worth the paper its printed on. IOI's are only supposed to refer you to the applicable regulation/ruling or federal law.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
  9. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2013
    Messages:
    5,341
    You do not need a gunsmithing certificate or degree in order to be a 07 FFL. It sure would help, but it is not mandatory. AR15s are under a microscope right now and will be for awhile. You can protect yourself more by being 07 than 01.
     
  10. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    5,434
    Location:
    Plano, Texas
    Protect yourself from what exactly?:scrutiny:
     
  11. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2013
    Messages:
    5,341
    See post #3.
     
  12. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    5,434
    Location:
    Plano, Texas
    Being that the OP clearly stated he was going to get an 07FFL....post #3 has nothing to do with anything. Post #3 references what happens when a person manufacturing does not possess a manufacturers license.

    Thats why post #3 and yours are nonsensical warnings to someone that doesn't need warning. HE KNOWS what FFL type he needs.;)
     
  13. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2013
    Messages:
    5,341
    Right because this sounds like a nonsensical question. My "warning" was nothing more than helpful advice. Wheras your nonsense is just well nonsense. Do not attempt a response, as I will not see it. Have a good one.
     
  14. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    5,434
    Location:
    Plano, Texas
    No, your "warning" was nonsensical. It's the equivalent of someone telling you they are flying to Florida for vacation and you warning them to avoid China. o_O
    Your advice wasn't helpful in the least BECAUSE THE OP ALREADY SAID HE WAS GETTING AN 07FFL.

    So basically you were warning the OP to protect himself by getting an 07FFL...that he already stated he was getting? Yes, helpful advice.:rofl:
     
  15. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    11,735
    Location:
    California - San Francisco Bay Area
    It looks like the topic has been covered.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice