Wildalaska
member
Thats what you had to buy the last time I checked with Benelli...
Absent that minimum investment, you dont get em....
And they make you buy the "dogs" to get the good stuff....
$50 Bucks for an FFL Transfer? You Got to be Kidding me!!!
- Thread starter Blain
- Start date
- Status
Thats what you had to buy the last time I checked with Benelli...
Absent that minimum investment, you dont get em....
And they make you buy the "dogs" to get the good stuff....
Hutch
Because it is counter productive to my busniess. True he will go somehwere else, and that is fine. Like I stated before, mine is not a "Community FFL." The $25.00 is of no consequence, it is not sufficient in amount or volume to be of benefit. Being a "transfer" dealer is actually detrimental to the business. Kinda like trying to be a high end jewlery store with a cubic zirconia section.
I have no desire to destroy my business so that some cheapskate can undercut the dealers and undermine my business for the sake of $25.00. Only a "transfer" dealer desperately trying to stay in busniess needs the $25 bucks that badly.
Because it is counter productive to my busniess. True he will go somehwere else, and that is fine. Like I stated before, mine is not a "Community FFL." The $25.00 is of no consequence, it is not sufficient in amount or volume to be of benefit. Being a "transfer" dealer is actually detrimental to the business. Kinda like trying to be a high end jewlery store with a cubic zirconia section.
I have no desire to destroy my business so that some cheapskate can undercut the dealers and undermine my business for the sake of $25.00. Only a "transfer" dealer desperately trying to stay in busniess needs the $25 bucks that badly.
Ok, so what do you dealers think is a fair cost for a walk in customer to do an FFL transfer?
In fact this bias against "walk in customers" disturbs me. What do you think "good" customers start off as? That's right, walk ins! You treat me bad because I am a "walk in" then I will be one as I take my buisness else where. The couple gun dealers I am good customers to is due to the fact that they didn't treat me like a joke. I was treated like a human being and a customer, it didn't matter that I had just walked in the store the first time. That is how "good" customers are made and kept.
You say you don't want "that type of buisness". Well that is fine, I'll take my buisness elsewhere, and I'll tell my friends the same. And in the end it will be YOUR loss. So go ahead and do what you must.
It is a capitalist society after all (thank god).
In fact this bias against "walk in customers" disturbs me. What do you think "good" customers start off as? That's right, walk ins! You treat me bad because I am a "walk in" then I will be one as I take my buisness else where. The couple gun dealers I am good customers to is due to the fact that they didn't treat me like a joke. I was treated like a human being and a customer, it didn't matter that I had just walked in the store the first time. That is how "good" customers are made and kept.
You say you don't want "that type of buisness". Well that is fine, I'll take my buisness elsewhere, and I'll tell my friends the same. And in the end it will be YOUR loss. So go ahead and do what you must.
It is a capitalist society after all (thank god).
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
Steyr, i suppose what gets under my skin is hearing the explanations given for high transfer prices (yours is about the best one i've heard). other retailers say "Oh well its a huge responsibility to handle the paperwork and set up the transfer."
and we havent even scratched the surface of sending firearms to yourself or to a friend if you are visiting a place and dont want to go through the hassle of declaring the firearm when checking into an airport. why charge such high fees to people that are shipping their own guns and no sale is involved? case in point are the tourists that visit Alaska and cant bring their firearms through canada. why stick it to them?
and we havent even scratched the surface of sending firearms to yourself or to a friend if you are visiting a place and dont want to go through the hassle of declaring the firearm when checking into an airport. why charge such high fees to people that are shipping their own guns and no sale is involved? case in point are the tourists that visit Alaska and cant bring their firearms through canada. why stick it to them?
Blain, again please see my original reply for e definition of a transfer. If a customer (new, walk in or regular) is transferring a gun then that is NO PROBLEM.
However if he is merely trying to order a NEW GUN from a WHOLESALER at DEALER COST then that is not a transfer. I will still be willing to take care of him, but that is going to be a special order (assuming I don't have it in stock) and the price I quote him will be somehwere between "dealer cost" and "manufacturers suggested retail." I also don't have a set markup, it is ridiculous to think I will profit the same amount of money from a Sig550 as a Rem 870.
spacemanspiff, despite ATF preferrences I don't believe you need a FFL to ship guns to yourself. The ownership is not changing and it is your personal property. I know you can ship a firearms directly to a manufacturer for repair without a FFL. Carriers are mostly to blame for this since most of them will only accept firearms from a FFL. Problem being if I ship or receive it I have to book it. And if I receive it, I do have to call it in, EVEN THOUGH IT IS ALREADY YOUR GUN. And that is just retarded.
However if he is merely trying to order a NEW GUN from a WHOLESALER at DEALER COST then that is not a transfer. I will still be willing to take care of him, but that is going to be a special order (assuming I don't have it in stock) and the price I quote him will be somehwere between "dealer cost" and "manufacturers suggested retail." I also don't have a set markup, it is ridiculous to think I will profit the same amount of money from a Sig550 as a Rem 870.
spacemanspiff, despite ATF preferrences I don't believe you need a FFL to ship guns to yourself. The ownership is not changing and it is your personal property. I know you can ship a firearms directly to a manufacturer for repair without a FFL. Carriers are mostly to blame for this since most of them will only accept firearms from a FFL. Problem being if I ship or receive it I have to book it. And if I receive it, I do have to call it in, EVEN THOUGH IT IS ALREADY YOUR GUN. And that is just retarded.
WonderNine
member
I think you're missing the point which is that with the amount of regulations ALREADY in place gun shops are a racket.
Wildalaska
member
Spiff, spiff I dont know who you deal with up here, but I probably get more "mail it to yourself" transfers that anyone in the state. Basically we charge $25 for a package...that is one, two three guns, I dont care how many. These guns are NOT run through the dealer book as long as people transfer them right...that is from them, to them c/o us.
Whats the $25 for? Easy..I gotta talk to the person on the phone and explain how to do it. Then I have to get the package, sort it out from all the others. Then put it in storage. Then retrieve it, and stand around while it is opened to ensure that nothing in there is illegal (and yes, some numbnuts already tried to send a loaded gun to us and got caught when it went off in the post office. And if I catch a loaded gun or illegal weapon in the box, 911 of the Feds are getting called becasue my freedom and license is more important than the one who takes advantage of me to commit a criminal act). All of the above takes up my time. Considering I am doing someone a favour (allowing them to use business premises as a mail drop) I dont think $25 is far off line.
For me, Everybody that walks in gets treated the same. Its a two way street..I learn your name, your preferences, what you like, etc. You buy stuff, I give you a good price, you buy more, I do you favours, etc...but sorry, the guy that walks in the first time and basically says "I want to use your FFL because I want to save $5" probably isnt gonna pay much attention to that $5,000 custom rifle.
And if my attitude turns people off so be it...if I dont have the steady stream of transferees coming in then I can spend more tiome with the guy thats looking at the Browning Superposed...and if you dont want to come in maybe its your loss, because any time you come in the door theres a deal that the "transfer dealer" could never get because he doesnt have real customers.
Like the one I sold a few weeks ago to a lucky fellow. A Glock 21 LNIB with two high caps and night sights for $459....thats the type of deals I can give because I run a real gunshop.
WildrespectmeIrespectyouAlaska
redneck2
Member
Yo, Wild...
go back and re-read the post please
go back and re-read the post please
Hutch
Member
SP, I understood SteyrAUG's response. He'd rather not accept the bidness at all, thereby preserving "price points" and his relationship with other (how to say this...) "uncooperative" dealers in the area. I mean no offense to Steyr. I now think I understand why he'd rather not take the 25 bux. No problemo, that reasoning is at least understandable, whether I agree with it or not.
Regarding your FFL transfer business, it's not comparable to our situation here. A real brick-and-mortar gun shop has standard bidness hours, receives UPS and other freight daily, and so on. If such a place is doing a transfer, I think most of the hassle you describe is at least minimized. I asked for an explanation of why a gun shop turns down the chance to pick up $25 for what for them is a very small bit of clerical work. Now I know.
BTW, I have a relative in the bidness who loves me, and handles my transfers fo' free. I hope there're no hard feelings.
Regarding your FFL transfer business, it's not comparable to our situation here. A real brick-and-mortar gun shop has standard bidness hours, receives UPS and other freight daily, and so on. If such a place is doing a transfer, I think most of the hassle you describe is at least minimized. I asked for an explanation of why a gun shop turns down the chance to pick up $25 for what for them is a very small bit of clerical work. Now I know.
BTW, I have a relative in the bidness who loves me, and handles my transfers fo' free. I hope there're no hard feelings.
Redlg155
Member
Just curious about the charges for the instant check system call. I know here they charge $5.00 at most places.
Is this a toll free number and does the dealer have to pay anything for each check conducted by the system?
A good while back Kmart was liquidationg a bunch of shotguns and I was thinking of purchasing one. Well, the "sporting goods" section charged 8 bucks and said so because it said they could by law. Everyone else charged five, including the highest priced dealer I could find. I decided not to purchase because even though I would have saved much more money on the purchase. I just didn't have anymore patience to argue with the manager of the section.
Good Shooting
Red
Is this a toll free number and does the dealer have to pay anything for each check conducted by the system?
A good while back Kmart was liquidationg a bunch of shotguns and I was thinking of purchasing one. Well, the "sporting goods" section charged 8 bucks and said so because it said they could by law. Everyone else charged five, including the highest priced dealer I could find. I decided not to purchase because even though I would have saved much more money on the purchase. I just didn't have anymore patience to argue with the manager of the section.
Good Shooting
Red
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
wildalaska, one that stands out in my mind is Gunrunners. they quoted $50 for the first gun, $5 for each add'l. i've heard other prices as well, but none that high, usually in the $20-35 range. and that was for a transfer of personal property.
now i am also under the impression that visitors to our state can ship their guns here, but it must be addressed to a state resident, so the sender couldnt be the receiver. this was explained to me at Norther Security. so if my brother wants to send his guns up when he visits from Arizona, he'd likely have to address it to me, being a state resident. or does it matter who its addressed to, as long as the 4473 reflects that the firearms were released to a state resident?
now i am also under the impression that visitors to our state can ship their guns here, but it must be addressed to a state resident, so the sender couldnt be the receiver. this was explained to me at Norther Security. so if my brother wants to send his guns up when he visits from Arizona, he'd likely have to address it to me, being a state resident. or does it matter who its addressed to, as long as the 4473 reflects that the firearms were released to a state resident?
I wouldn't dream of asking my dealer to do a transfer on a new gun. Why would I insult him like that. Used or custom guns are aceptable as he can't obtain them readily. I know I pay him more and he is making a profit but he still treats me fair, I can often handle guns first, he deals with the warranty departments if there is a problem, pays to send it back himself etc. The SERVICE you get from a real shop is worth the extra money.
nemesis
Member
$20 for a transfer here but no background check calls as I'm not subject to NICS background checks.
Hutch, I'm glad you understand and please believe no offense was taken on my part.
And just to reiterate, this is just responsibility on my part. My business is my livlihood and how I provide for myself and family. And for that reason I cannot operate it as a well intentioned hobby.
And my pricing relfect no disdain or disrespect towards my customers. They are in fact, the lifeblood of my business. Without them, I have nothing. As a result I try and go far out of my way to take care of their needs and wants.
And "if" $25.00 transfers could actually support and maintain my business I would do it. But it just doesn't. I am one of the few FFLs in the area that actually makes money. Not a lot, but bills paid and McDonalds money at the end of the day is better than most.
And just to reiterate, this is just responsibility on my part. My business is my livlihood and how I provide for myself and family. And for that reason I cannot operate it as a well intentioned hobby.
And my pricing relfect no disdain or disrespect towards my customers. They are in fact, the lifeblood of my business. Without them, I have nothing. As a result I try and go far out of my way to take care of their needs and wants.
And "if" $25.00 transfers could actually support and maintain my business I would do it. But it just doesn't. I am one of the few FFLs in the area that actually makes money. Not a lot, but bills paid and McDonalds money at the end of the day is better than most.
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
you know steyraug, maybe a lot of us are just insanely jealous because you have many of the cool toys we drool over?
tell you what. you keep your current pricing for transfers, and let us run off a few mags worth in your toys. we'll supply the ammo, just give us 15 minutes alone with the object of our desire, and we'll call it even.
tell you what. you keep your current pricing for transfers, and let us run off a few mags worth in your toys. we'll supply the ammo, just give us 15 minutes alone with the object of our desire, and we'll call it even.
Wildalaska
member
Spiff if you want send me a PM with your snail addy and I will mail a info sheet about bringing personal guns into Alaska...you DO NOT NEED to do a 4473...
When I lived in the PRK, one outfit wanted $100. Most wanted $50. Alot wouldn't do it at all. I knew I was going to move to Kentucky soon so I just waited. I had to order the gun I wanted here. I paid $25 more for it than I could have gotten it for at a gun shop 150 miles away so I didn't mind. I'd have more than that in gas and wear and tear. I still got the gun cheaper than they were selling worse variations of in the PRK.
www.gunbroker.com lists some transfer agents who seem to have reasonable prices. Never used them so I don't know if they are reliable but I'm guessing they are if they want to keep their FFL.
Alot of gun stores have bit the dust in the PRK so sometimes I see why they don't want to hassle it. They also make you do a whole bunch of paperwork for California that they don't do here in Kentucky. Slimy politicians are trying to run all the dealers out by making it too expensive to operate or taxing them to death. One clown Legistator proposed a 5 cent per bullet tax. It didn't fly but now that Red Davis has dug himself into such a deficit, I could see the commies passing it. The commie Legislature sure won't stand in the way.
www.gunbroker.com lists some transfer agents who seem to have reasonable prices. Never used them so I don't know if they are reliable but I'm guessing they are if they want to keep their FFL.
Alot of gun stores have bit the dust in the PRK so sometimes I see why they don't want to hassle it. They also make you do a whole bunch of paperwork for California that they don't do here in Kentucky. Slimy politicians are trying to run all the dealers out by making it too expensive to operate or taxing them to death. One clown Legistator proposed a 5 cent per bullet tax. It didn't fly but now that Red Davis has dug himself into such a deficit, I could see the commies passing it. The commie Legislature sure won't stand in the way.
My FFL just barely bumped his transfer price up from $10 to $15. The first transfer he did for me he only charged $5.
I guess that I'm lucky.
With that said, though, I was quoted $80 for a P7M8 transfer once from a local rob-you-dry gunshop...
I guess that I'm lucky.
With that said, though, I was quoted $80 for a P7M8 transfer once from a local rob-you-dry gunshop...
Wildalaska
member
The question arose about shipping privately held firearms from your home to your destination..heres what I give out..
"THE BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS HAS PROVIDED THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION TO US. WE MAKE NO REPRESENTATION AS TO THE ACCURACY OF THIS INFORMATION AND YOU SHOULD CHECK WITH THE ATF OR YOUR LAWYER BEFORE SHIPPING OR TRANSPORTING FIREARMS TO ALASKA.
FLYING – If flying directly to or from Alaska, a person may include an UNLOADED firearm in checked baggage. You must notify the carrier when checking in, that the baggage contains a firearm. IT IS A VIOLATION OF LAW TO TRANSPORT A LOADED FIREARM BY AIR!!
DRIVING – If driving by automobile, you can:
Take sporting rifles and shotguns with you – Canadian law prohibits handguns, short barreled rifles and shotguns and fully automatic weapons. In general, firearms must be unloaded, out of reach, out of sight and stored separately from any ammunition in the vehicle. Call the Canadian Customs office in Vancouver, BC at (604) 666-0545, for more information about Canadian firearms laws.
OR
Ship the firearms to your destination – Prior to traveling through Canada, persons may ship UNLOADED firearms:
1. Directly to themselves, for example to their hotel or other destination*
2. To themselves, in care of an FFL, for example Joe Smith sends a rifle to an FFL in Alaska. Smith shows appropriate identification and retrieves the package containing the firearm(s) from the FFL. The package is not opened by the FFL and the firearm(s) is not recorded in the FFL’s records. Be sure to arrange this with the FFL ahead of time.
3. To themselves, in care of any other person legally able to receive firearms in another state. The recipient signs for the package, but does not open it.
*Do not send packages to any location, particularly FFLs, without arranging it ahead of time with the recipient.
NOTE: YOU MAY NOT SHIP HANDGUNS BY MAIL, YOU MUST USE A COMMON CARRIER. IF YOU WISH TO SHIP HANDGUNS WE RECOMMEND THAT YOU HAVE A DEALER FORWARD YOUR PACKAGE IN CARE OF ANOTHER DEALER.
NOTE: IT IS A VIOLATION OF LAW TO SHIP A LOADED FIREARM BY MAIL OR COMMON CARRIER. ALL SHIPPED FIREARMS MUST BE UNLOADED. AMMUNITION CANNOT BE MAILED!
ALASKA MARINE HIGHWAY – The same rules apply. Firearms are permitted in your baggage. If you’re stopping in Canada, remember that country’s laws will allow you to bring in sporting rifles and shotguns only. Call (800) 642-0066 for more information. Web site access is at http://www.akms.com/ferry/
BEFORE LEAVING THE U.S. travelers should register with the U.S. Customs Service, on a Customs Form 4457. These forms are available at local Port Offices throughout the country. To find the closest one to you, call the nearest office or check their web page at http://www.customs.ustreas.gov and click on TRAVELER INFORMATION. This form is the traveler’s proof that the item registered was in his/her possession prior to leaving the U.S. and will facilitate the clearance of firearms upon leaving Canada. Otherwise, U.S. Customs Service, at the point of re-entry, will hold firearms, to await importation by an FFL."
"THE BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS HAS PROVIDED THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION TO US. WE MAKE NO REPRESENTATION AS TO THE ACCURACY OF THIS INFORMATION AND YOU SHOULD CHECK WITH THE ATF OR YOUR LAWYER BEFORE SHIPPING OR TRANSPORTING FIREARMS TO ALASKA.
FLYING – If flying directly to or from Alaska, a person may include an UNLOADED firearm in checked baggage. You must notify the carrier when checking in, that the baggage contains a firearm. IT IS A VIOLATION OF LAW TO TRANSPORT A LOADED FIREARM BY AIR!!
DRIVING – If driving by automobile, you can:
Take sporting rifles and shotguns with you – Canadian law prohibits handguns, short barreled rifles and shotguns and fully automatic weapons. In general, firearms must be unloaded, out of reach, out of sight and stored separately from any ammunition in the vehicle. Call the Canadian Customs office in Vancouver, BC at (604) 666-0545, for more information about Canadian firearms laws.
OR
Ship the firearms to your destination – Prior to traveling through Canada, persons may ship UNLOADED firearms:
1. Directly to themselves, for example to their hotel or other destination*
2. To themselves, in care of an FFL, for example Joe Smith sends a rifle to an FFL in Alaska. Smith shows appropriate identification and retrieves the package containing the firearm(s) from the FFL. The package is not opened by the FFL and the firearm(s) is not recorded in the FFL’s records. Be sure to arrange this with the FFL ahead of time.
3. To themselves, in care of any other person legally able to receive firearms in another state. The recipient signs for the package, but does not open it.
*Do not send packages to any location, particularly FFLs, without arranging it ahead of time with the recipient.
NOTE: YOU MAY NOT SHIP HANDGUNS BY MAIL, YOU MUST USE A COMMON CARRIER. IF YOU WISH TO SHIP HANDGUNS WE RECOMMEND THAT YOU HAVE A DEALER FORWARD YOUR PACKAGE IN CARE OF ANOTHER DEALER.
NOTE: IT IS A VIOLATION OF LAW TO SHIP A LOADED FIREARM BY MAIL OR COMMON CARRIER. ALL SHIPPED FIREARMS MUST BE UNLOADED. AMMUNITION CANNOT BE MAILED!
ALASKA MARINE HIGHWAY – The same rules apply. Firearms are permitted in your baggage. If you’re stopping in Canada, remember that country’s laws will allow you to bring in sporting rifles and shotguns only. Call (800) 642-0066 for more information. Web site access is at http://www.akms.com/ferry/
BEFORE LEAVING THE U.S. travelers should register with the U.S. Customs Service, on a Customs Form 4457. These forms are available at local Port Offices throughout the country. To find the closest one to you, call the nearest office or check their web page at http://www.customs.ustreas.gov and click on TRAVELER INFORMATION. This form is the traveler’s proof that the item registered was in his/her possession prior to leaving the U.S. and will facilitate the clearance of firearms upon leaving Canada. Otherwise, U.S. Customs Service, at the point of re-entry, will hold firearms, to await importation by an FFL."
This thread sure shows a wide spectrum of attitudes regarding marketing, customer service, etc., from both sides of the retail counter...God bless capitalism! People making economic choices.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned, is that one of the biggest themes in the gun control movement, is "divide and conquer"; the govt. licenses dealers, then starts throwing in all kinds of detailed requirements, penalties for non-compliance, etc. Next thing you know, people are making choices based not so much on the fundemental business (in this case guns/retailing), but rather on perceptions related to the artificial govt. "hoops". Makes it a little different than selling, say...(insert commodity here).
Folks have always, and will continue to operate in their own best interests...thats the beauty of our system. Just seems like the overlay of regulation creates opportunities to alienate different segments of the gun enthusiast market...it sure doesn't help to bring them together, anyway. "Divide and conquer"...feeling manipulated.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned, is that one of the biggest themes in the gun control movement, is "divide and conquer"; the govt. licenses dealers, then starts throwing in all kinds of detailed requirements, penalties for non-compliance, etc. Next thing you know, people are making choices based not so much on the fundemental business (in this case guns/retailing), but rather on perceptions related to the artificial govt. "hoops". Makes it a little different than selling, say...(insert commodity here).
Folks have always, and will continue to operate in their own best interests...thats the beauty of our system. Just seems like the overlay of regulation creates opportunities to alienate different segments of the gun enthusiast market...it sure doesn't help to bring them together, anyway. "Divide and conquer"...feeling manipulated.
My favorite dealer charges $15.00 for a transfer, including background check fees. She runs a police suppy shop and doesn't generally stock much in the way of guns, but she knows if I do see something I like in the display cabinet I'll probably buy it without haggling on the price even if I could get it a little cheaper elsewhere. I just picked up my new East German Makarov from her on Monday. If she expands her shop to sell guns full-time, she will get all my business.
vertigo7
If she expands her shop to sell guns full-time, she will get all my business.vertigo7
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